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then subtract my 20 pounds of weight loss and racing weight with me (224#s) is right at 3045 or so...then with the NM Wheels and RE71s I think it is around 3040 at least...every pounds counts.
Wait can you clarify this math? How much is just the car right now? Does you car have a sunroof?
My DS (sunroof delete) R56 was 2400 flat with the gas light on, trying to figure out just how much heavier the F56 is. All of the magazine test cars are sunroof equipped.
Wait can you clarify this math? How much is just the car right now? Does you car have a sunroof?
My DS (sunroof delete) R56 was 2400 flat with the gas light on, trying to figure out just how much heavier the F56 is. All of the magazine test cars are sunroof equipped.
The F56 JCW is listed as slightly over 2800# (sorry, I thought I had the MINI published number). This should give you a ball park #. I should get the weight of mine (no sun roof) checked with nothing done to it.
You have done well with your R56 to get its weight down that low. Mine R56 S has weighed in at 2600#, before I add the roll bar.
EDIT... Ooops, I should have looked this up before posting above. Not sure if it helps as it is not actual weight. I’ll leave it posted as it might be of interest to people as a starting point Here is what MINI lists Base Cooper.... 2645# S...................... 2785# JCW................. 2845# And, it is not clear whether this is with our W/O the sunroof. My guess it is with the sunroof.
Last edited by Eddie07S; 07-17-2019 at 08:32 AM.
Reason: Added MINI stated weights
C&D measured 2860lb for their 2019 6mt, 2864lb for their 2015 instrumented test, and 2862lb for their 2015 lightning lap car. All have sunroofs.
They also list 2764lb for their 2013 base cooper, but again, sunroof.
My R56 was special ordered by an autocrosser, only option was LSD. No sunroof, no leather, no nav, not even automatic AC. Wonder if something was changed over the life of the chassis, as a buddy's HS base R56, almost zero option car was 2408lb, granted on a different set of scales.
That 2860# weight appears to be the weight for the JCW Knights Edition they tested. That 15# from what I posted is likely the extra weight for that special black paint they used....
Or the MINI weight I listed is an average weight for what they sell in that model. Maybe? I had read that the sunroof was worth about 60#. So, subtract that from the C&D weight. Maybe that would be a good estimate of the JCW weight w/o the sunroof?
Your R56 is much like mine, which was a special order too. No sunroof and no LSD; heated seats, though. Need those heated seats up north here. But, I don’t know what was included in my car’s weight when I weighed it (floor mats, stock wheels and RFTs, crap in the boot, etc). I do know the MINI listed weight for my R56 is quite a bit more than its actual. So the same is probably true for the F56 JCW w/o the sunroof.
Well I decided on 245/45/17 Bridgestone RE71Rs to replace my 225/45/17's. I'm pretty sure I can get them to fit. The 245/40/17 were actually wider and shorter which would have meant I would have to be shifting to 3rd during an AutoX for a few seconds AND I'm not sure about the extra width (section and tread) for fitment purposes. I get them tomorrow and we will see...
Well I decided on 245/45/17 Bridgestone RE71Rs to replace my 225/45/17's. I'm pretty sure I can get them to fit. The 245/40/17 were actually wider and shorter which would have meant I would have to be shifting to 3rd during an AutoX for a few seconds AND I'm not sure about the extra width (section and tread) for fitment purposes. I get them tomorrow and we will see...
We run them as well but you need extentions outside, otherwise they never clear the shocks, also other offset needed.
Your Mini looks awesome. I wish I could add some fender flairs but by the rules in SCCA Solo II STU I can't modify/add any flairs to fenders. I can slightly trim the stock plastic wheel arches a bit and now that I've added Camber Plates up front and adjustable control arms in the rear I can make a little more room. As for hitting the shocks, I have some 10mm front spacers that give me plenty of room for my current 225/45/17 and should not be a problem with 245/45/17s. The issue is going to be where the tires come on the outside. In the rear I also can put on 5mm spacers,,,I will know today
Last edited by Darbys2019MiniJCW; 07-22-2019 at 12:41 PM.
OK...245/40/17s wouldn't have fit as I guessed but the 245/45/17 RE71Rs did fit BARELY. I have ECS 10mm Spacers that I had to turn down the hubcentric side just a bit to fit the NM RE05s wheels but they made it possible to clear the front strut with 1.6 degrees of negative camber. The rear are actually so close I might put my 5mm spacers on them to bring them in just a touch (2 tenths of an inch) but first I am going to increase the rear camber from -1.6 camber to -2.0 camber and see if that does the trick. The 245/45/17s are 25.7" tall compared to the 225/45/17s at 25" so that extra .35" is a bit of an issue front and rear. I will get pics soon...they look massive...lol
But I am also curious as to how the taller tires (1.5” dia increase?) affects acceleration. I know when I when down in dia by about 2”, acceleration was much better.
But I am also curious as to how the taller tires (1.5” dia increase?) affects acceleration. I know when I when down in dia by about 2”, acceleration was much better.
The diameter increase is only .7" which makes a .35" clearance issue...that is magnified by the section width increase and tread width increase of .7" and .6" respectively. Divided in half that makes the .35" and .3" differences a challenge
when it comes to clearance. The circumference difference adds only a 1.28% increase in tires circumference compared to the 225/45/17's
Now when it comes to compare against stock tires there is a bigger difference...24.5" vs 25.7"...4.8% increase in tire circumference
My JCW came with 205-45x17, which is 24.3” dia, and is where I got the approx 1.5” from. OK 1.4”.
Your 245 is also only a 2 lb weight penalty (compared to the 205-45x17, they don’t list a RE71R 204-40x17), which also isn’t much. Interesting that your tire is 1 lb lighter than the 235....
All of that aside - what does the car feel like with the larger tires and the change in offset?
When I mounted a set of 225-45x17 Toyo R888s on 7” wide wheels, they would roll over on their sidewalls. This was with -1.5 deg camber and 38 psi hot pressure. My thought was that even though the 7” wide wheel was listed as the min width for that size tire, it seemed to be pinched, hence the rollover.
What are you seeing with respect to the 245s on a 7.5” wide wheel? Your AX times are really good so it seems that this is a good match of sizes. Yes?
When I mounted a set of 225-45x17 Toyo R888s on 7” wide wheels, they would roll over on their sidewalls. This was with -1.5 deg camber and 38 psi hot pressure. My thought was that even though the 7” wide wheel was listed as the min width for that size tire, it seemed to be pinched, hence the rollover.
What are you seeing with respect to the 245s on a 7.5” wide wheel? Your AX times are really good so it seems that this is a good match of sizes. Yes?
I haven't run the 245's yet...they are new. The 225's were great tho on the 7.5's. I run 33psi front/30psi rear in the 225's. I'm sure there might be a small adjustment on the 245's
When I mounted a set of 225-45x17 Toyo R888s on 7” wide wheels, they would roll over on their sidewalls.
I think there's some tire dependency. The RE71R in particular has a ridiculously stiff sidewall, so much that it's hard to mount in some cases. This sidewall seems to let it tolerate a pinch better than the BFG Rival at least, I have no experience with the R888 though.
Even on RE71s I used to run as much as 40psi on my (no camber) DS car, that's 215s on a 7".
For the track and from what I have read, it seems that the 215 on a 7” wide wheel is pretty optimal. I also wonder if the 245 is a bit more tolerant of variation in wheel width, which is why it works on a 7.5” wide wheel? Very interested in hearing how the 245s do. I am actually thinking of trying the 235, so I am figuring if the 245 works, the 235 will work as well.
The Toyo R888 has a very stiff side wall. Ride-wise it feels like a runflat tire. But the R888 also runs very large for its size (tread width is huge for a 225). It is a 100 wear rated tire, so it is sticky and will want to pull itself over on side probably more than a 200 wear rated tire. Maybe this all plays into how it performs on various wheel widths. Also, camber would help too.
For the track and from what I have read, it seems that the 215 on a 7” wide wheel is pretty optimal. I also wonder if the 245 is a bit more tolerant of variation in wheel width, which is why it works on a 7.5” wide wheel? Very interested in hearing how the 245s do. I am actually thinking of trying the 235, so I am figuring if the 245 works, the 235 will work as well.
The Toyo R888 has a very stiff side wall. Ride-wise it feels like a runflat tire. But the R888 also runs very large for its size (tread width is huge for a 225). It is a 100 wear rated tire, so it is sticky and will want to pull itself over on side probably more than a 200 wear rated tire. Maybe this all plays into how it performs on various wheel widths. Also, camber would help too.
The 225's RE71Rs worked great on my 18" extra stock 7" rims...no issues...car was completely stock
I'm impressed you got 245's to fit, we just couldn't do the mental math to make it worth gambling on, and we're friendly with our tire guy and decided not to push the limits of that friendship, although in hindsight it looks like the 245/45/17 is able to fit a 7.5" wheel according to Tirerack so maybe we slipped up on not trying that. The taller tire would also help us not overwhelm the tire with the torque you can get from a tuned B48...
After autoxing an F56 for about four years, y'all need more camber. Lower control arm offset bushings are great bang for the buck and should be STU legal. Our car is up to a little over -3° and we are still eating the outside edges, 225/45/17 on 17x7.5, 225's on a 7" wheel is fairly common for autoxers looking for maximum grip. Below is a pic of the second to last set of Bridgestones we put on the car and the factory offset knuckles are mighty tempting even though it's $500+ for only -0.5°, a local R56 is managing -4° I think, neither of us are building for Street Touring anymore but I think that's the target for a MacStrut car these days. We messed with a pyrometer and did far too many events at about -2.2°, the biggest leap in performance we got that season ('17 iirc) was maxing the camber to over -3° and we've been at that ever since.
A few other things to note in the thread, our '14 Hardtop S (6MT, slicktop) clocks in just under 2,700 lbs with less than a half tank of gas and a muffler delete, the above curb weights seem fairly accurate based on that data point with a full tank, OE muffler, and all the floormats and stuff I think we'd be very close to 2780.
Check the front springs on the KW Clubsports after a few events on sticky tires, ours were coil-binding but we were doing everything to prop up the front of the car and added a lot of preload to the spring. Switching to a slightly stiffer longer Eibach spring and ditching the helper was a big improvement not just for driving hard but also for comfort.
STU makes sense on paper with the R56 being able to fit 245's on 15x8's in the past and the power potential of the B48 with the new boost tuning rules, but without modifying the fenders to get a 245+ without a big pinch the third gen is a total underdog imho, and the 2nd gen can't get the power I think (I might be wrong on that). We just started playing with Hoosiers instead as the piggybacks are pushing past 250 ft-lbs to the wheels we got tired of literally spinning our wheels.
I'm impressed you got 245's to fit, we just couldn't do the mental math to make it worth gambling on, and we're friendly with our tire guy and decided not to push the limits of that friendship, although in hindsight it looks like the 245/45/17 is able to fit a 7.5" wheel according to Tirerack so maybe we slipped up on not trying that. The taller tire would also help us not overwhelm the tire with the torque you can get from a tuned B48...
After autoxing an F56 for about four years, y'all need more camber. Lower control arm offset bushings are great bang for the buck and should be STU legal. Our car is up to a little over -3° and we are still eating the outside edges, 225/45/17 on 17x7.5, 225's on a 7" wheel is fairly common for autoxers looking for maximum grip. Below is a pic of the second to last set of Bridgestones we put on the car and the factory offset knuckles are mighty tempting even though it's $500+ for only -0.5°, a local R56 is managing -4° I think, neither of us are building for Street Touring anymore but I think that's the target for a MacStrut car these days. We messed with a pyrometer and did far too many events at about -2.2°, the biggest leap in performance we got that season ('17 iirc) was maxing the camber to over -3° and we've been at that ever since.
A few other things to note in the thread, our '14 Hardtop S (6MT, slicktop) clocks in just under 2,700 lbs with less than a half tank of gas and a muffler delete, the above curb weights seem fairly accurate based on that data point with a full tank, OE muffler, and all the floormats and stuff I think we'd be very close to 2780.
Check the front springs on the KW Clubsports after a few events on sticky tires, ours were coil-binding but we were doing everything to prop up the front of the car and added a lot of preload to the spring. Switching to a slightly stiffer longer Eibach spring and ditching the helper was a big improvement not just for driving hard but also for comfort.
STU makes sense on paper with the R56 being able to fit 245's on 15x8's in the past and the power potential of the B48 with the new boost tuning rules, but without modifying the fenders to get a 245+ without a big pinch the third gen is a total underdog imho, and the 2nd gen can't get the power I think (I might be wrong on that). We just started playing with Hoosiers instead as the piggybacks are pushing past 250 ft-lbs to the wheels we got tired of literally spinning our wheels.
I went thru all sorts of math and took the chance on the 245/45/17s...my math didn't push me to the 245/40/17s which have a bigger section width and tread width but shorter diameter. I also decided that the extra diameter which increased the circumference by 3% over the 225/45/17 and 5.5% over stock would actually help with traction AND 2nd gear available speed in an AutoX.
As for camber...I am working 1 step at a time...but your pic of treadwear seems pretty even since the tire lasted until almost bald across the whole tread pattern till the edges finally gave in.
As for weight. I was aiming to be at 3100# including driver and helmet and just under 1/2 tank...have come to ~3065# so happy so far.
The 225's with camber plates & NM Exhaust pushed the Mini to a win in STU...but I need more...so I went with the 245s and going to adjust alignment again. note: I have to say the WaveTrac LSD has helped every step of the way...
Last edited by Darbys2019MiniJCW; 09-08-2019 at 10:30 AM.
After autoxing an F56 for about four years, y'all need more camber. Lower control arm offset bushings are great bang for the buck and should be STU legal. Our car is up to a little over -3° and we are still eating the outside edges, 225/45/17 on 17x7.5, 225's on a 7" wheel is fairly common for autoxers looking for maximum grip. Below is a pic of the second to last set of Bridgestones we put on the car and the factory offset knuckles are mighty tempting even though it's $500+ for only -0.5°, a local R56 is managing -4° I think, neither of us are building for Street Touring anymore but I think that's the target for a MacStrut car these days. We messed with a pyrometer and did far too many events at about -2.2°, the biggest leap in performance we got that season ('17 iirc) was maxing the camber to over -3° and we've been at that ever since.
So, am I seeing that about -2 deg camber is obtainable with stock springs and about -3 deg is obtainable with smaller diameter coilover springs? Are there other mods needed to get to -3 deg?
07-17-2019, 07:48 AM
But, I don’t know what was included in my car’s weight when I weighed it (floor mats, stock wheels and RFTs, crap in the boot, etc). I do know the MINI listed weight for my R56 is quite a bit more than its actual. So the same is probably true for the F56 JCW w/o the sunroof.
