Modern diesels have come a LONG way..I bought a VW jetta TDI last month...
EPA says it gets 48 mpg....and so far I am getting 53 at 73 mph while still breaking it in...running it modestly hard...with 236 lbs of tq, and 150 HP, it is actually faster than a mini in some situations...
The us EPA tests chronicly underestimates diesel mpg, and over estimates gas mpg...
New diesel motors, with improved emissions using DEF has fixed many of the "issues" older motors had using older techniques like high flow egr....

 

i had a 2009 chevy cobalt ss with over400lbft of torque and 320 whp. but it couldnt get the power to the groud in 1st or second gear. and boosting into a corner was pretty hairy.

 

Hey....NOBODY is wrong to express opinions on this site. If you don't like my comments because you are a diehard Mini fan, don't even reply.

This is my first Mini and the cheapest car I have bought in the last 4 years. It doesn't mean it is garbage but i rate it below average about quality, design and assembly compared to Asian cars I have owned before. Like it or not, it is also short on performance but at least scores high on handling.

Again, it is my opinion as an owner and nobody has to agree with me.

 

More forceful comments aside I think our confusion is over why you bought a MINI...or more to the point why you still own one.

Like the Lotus Elan or Porsches I've owned in the past my F55 was the most fun car I could buy at that moment. But it never occurred to me to think they had the same 'fit and finish' or reliability as a Honda or MB. As for 'design' that is in the eye of the beholder - SAABs and Lancias were well known for sparking debate on the subject. And anyone who has been inside a Lambo or driven a Prius knows that the line between inspired and idiotic can be breathtakingly thin.
I guess that is the other part of the confusion - where I drive for fun 90% of performance IS handling. Given a 0-60 in the 6s it's all about how late I can brake and how much momentum I can keep - a little better push out of the apex is nice but the next curve is coming right up.

All that said...if you're unhappy with your MINI (or any car) get rid of it. As I mentioned, they are taking orders for the next gen MX-5s - once 'charged they should be ridiculously fast. Or a WRX. Or (if wallet allows) a GT-R.

 

It seems like you bought a bad one. When you bought it you claimed you got like 17MPG and had no power. The facts say the JCW is the second most powerful car in its class, behind the $48k Mercedes AMG. Look back to the 3rd of 4th post for documentation of the power/weight ratio. Sorry you maybe got a lemon. I didn't.

EDIT: Here's the numbers on PW ratio:

Now, let's re-sort them in terms of quickest power-to-weight ratio:
CLA45 AMG --> JCW --> Golf R --> Evo X --> WRX --> TTS --> ATS --> Focus ST --> Z4 --> 228i --> GTI PP --> GTI --> Verano Turbo --> A3 2.0

 

Power to weight is a good measurement, but not the end-all be-all either.

Unless we're talking track day only, you have to experience first hand how 4wd cars put that power down, everyday, everytime, easily... Without even bothering to look at 0-60 figures I have no doubt a Golf R or TTS from the list above would destroy a JCW on a majority of launches and putting the power down in general...

My other car is an S4 (outside that price range -well not really as I bought it used but anyway, just as an example) and that thing might be heavy and not as sporty as an M3/M4 but it is absolutely *untouchable* on everyday take offs ! I don't mean stupid stuff like street racing but the usual 0-40 stuff, on-ramps, stuff you can do and keep your license. It's faster than most modern porsches I've owned in everyday fun (not on a track, but 99% of the time). My wife forbids me to "take off" with her in the car as it physically hurts her neck and rearranges her organs ;-) Combo of torque (330) + 4WD + very short first few gears and quick shifting. Most of the time when you are commuting, you aren't exploiting 50% of your car's cornering grip. But you can have tons of fun "taking off" all the time - so I wouldn't knock the 300hp 4wd cars just on power/weight considerations...

If we ARE talking track, I think it's moot anyway, what you really want there for long runs is a RWD car that shares the burden of steering and propelling the car across both axles... I've been on tracks for the past 20y, I rarely see a Mini - it's not a knock on the car, it's designed to be more of a rally type car, or street carver... FWD on track doesn't tend to do too well after a few laps, front wheels do too much.

I don't mean to bash the mini, I own an S and love it, but I agree with the OP's sentiments, even if he generalized the details. Paying $40K+ for a JCW is kinda beyond my understanding (in a price for performance ratio). To me this is the price range of true weapons (slightly used Caymans, 997s, M3s, etc...). In that JCW price range, I WOULD excpect Mini to sell us a 4wd JCW with around 300hp, indeed. But they don't and yet people still buy'em, go figure.

PS: I realize I'm doing apples to oranges introducing used cars to the discussion, but paying over $40K and only getting low 200hp just seems weird to me.

 

I think the issue is that the MINI is one-of-a-kind here in the states. We get econoboxes that have powerful engines dropped in them (e.g. VW GTI and Ford Focus ST). But they are less fun to drive and have interiors (and to an extent exteriors) that reflect their bean-counted siblings. We also get nice sports sedans (and occasionally wagons). But a BMW 328i Wagon spec'd like my F55 is $55,550 - an S4 sedan is $58,500.

So is a buyer of a $40K JCW overpaying by $10K? Or underpaying by $15K? It isn't as if I could lay my hands on a BMW 5-door 1-Series or MB A series or Audi A1 (or Subaru WRX Hatch or Mazdaspeed 3 or...) to compare the MINI with any of the vehicles it competes with directly in the rest of the world. But if anyone in the US really cares they can go to a more UK focused MINI forum and read why people chose to buy a JCW over the BMW or Merc or Audi - and it usually isn't price.

 

No, paying $40k for a JCW isn't weird at all. When you get into that price range you are beyond paying for performance, 4WD and HP be damned because 95% of drivers couldn't drive skillfully on a track if you paid them (myself included). When you get into that price range you are buying an IMAGE. And if that image is one of a very cool looking British sport machine with a customizable interior, Recaro seats, with a distinctive roofline and color scheme, that nobody else owns, that drives like a bat out of hell, then you're talking about my $40,000 JCW Coupe, get it?

 

A few things to consider:
*D-Sport Racer
*Kawasaki ZX-14R

Both make your [insert any humble-brag car here] pointless on a track, and in a straightline at any speed, respectively.

Both can be acquired for much less than your S4, but I also doubt you considered either, so the comparisons are obviously irrelevant.

The JCW stands on its own as a lifestyle product. Nobody in their right mind that's buying one is realistically expecting to crush 1/4 miles or HPDEs, but they will have tons of fun, and they get a great car that does everything well, like a GTI with charisma and character. Pandering that the JCW is a bad value according to some alternate goal is pointless.

BTW, the JCW starts at $30.6k, not $40k. That's not an inconsequential difference.

 

I should have known that might ruffle a feather or 2, but my intent was really not to bash the jcw, more its current *pricing* - I agreed with the OP that it was a little crazy you only got 200+ hp for $40K. I get the image thing... I also know there are a lot of euro hatches that will go faster for less (not for sale in the US but..) but that this one is distinctive. I mentioned the S4 strictly as an example of how 4WD puts down power re: the original post, not my intention to put that car on a pedestal at all (I'm selling it shortly anyway), but at least it's a normal car, not a track special as mentioned above... Also as a point that anything over 250 lb-ft of torque on a FWD car is really not optimal, so it would make sense for mini to do an AWD JCW with more power...

At the end of the day, I *like* the JCW, it's distinctive, it's very cool, it handles well - exceptionally so for a FWD car I might add. But I do think it's crazy overpriced for the content and performance, that's all. What's a 2 door cooper S starting price, 25-26K ? That I get... Similar price to a base GTI but more fun. But if you breach $40K, my brain loses grasp of the logic of a JCW when that money opens the door to true sports cars (if used). Not sure where I got the 40K from though, I no longer see it in the thread... might be my last visit to the dealer... Yes low 30s, it makes sense.

But yeah, this isn't a reflection of your choice to buy one, it's a reflection of my personal limit on car pricing or more accurately price/performance ratio. It's a personal thing, it varies, I get it... I'll keep such opinions to myself ;-) Sorry JCW owners !!!

 

Image if BMW offered AWD on a JCW... I'd gladly pay $40k

 

--->deschodt: I think you pretty much pointed out exactly why the JCW, and the MINI brand in general, has a certain appeal to certain individuals. The DSR's "only" have about 200 HP and they cost >$50k to build, but that's hardly a closed-end argument. The S4 being a "normal car" is exactly why it wouldn't be cross-shopped with a MINI. Different strokes for different folks, right?

...and the base price of the JCW is still $30,600, not $40k. =P

 

Yup, absolutely...

But not at my dealer ;-) A so-so equipped Cooper S is $32-35K there... That must be where I got the $40K... I could swear it was in the thread earlier, maybe a sneaky edit ? ;-)

 

I agree it's temptingly easy to pile on the options, and that decision definitely would tilt the value equation for each person differently.

As an aside, I had the opportunity to drive my dealers automatic JCW tonight. Unless your DD is a Stingray [et al] and your bar of "slow" is uncommonly skewed, you can't say with a straight face this car has "so little power". Just sayin'.

 

Fast is one thing.....all JCW are with no question about it. If you need some power going on, it is another matter unless you shift gears all the time to be in upper RPM. This has always been my point.

I just hope the JB+ will bring a solution to this issue.

 

I am now at 26 mpg in town after 5K and and mostly one year from ownership from new.

I don't consider I have a "lemon" as I never went to the dealer for service.

How trouble free is yours?

 

So you're saying you can't be bothered to shift? That's your point?

Have you driven the F56 JCW? At this point, they're auto only, so your "shift gears all the time" means you haven't driven one, so you're talking about something else.

 

Got one buzzy speaker replaced. Burns zero oil. I just remember you complaining about getting bad gas mileage when you got it, like 18mpg. I said then that that wasn't right, you should get more like 25.
On a different forum there was a GoPro video of a guy with the same car I have on a racetrack (not AutoX). You can see various cars roll by and get on the track, Porches, Mercedes, etc. Maybe this guy's a great driver but he passes a whole bunch of cars and nobody passed him. He got going pretty fast in the straightaways too. It wasn't an oval. I doubt he was paying people to let him by.

 

Boys, I'd prefer MORE POWER! I promise I'd drive responsibly, but if somehow I burned off the front tires, that's very OK with me.

Yes, I know about power-to-weight, torque, well-balanced, MPG, etc., but I'd nevertheless prefer MORE POWER.

Frankly I've been surprised by what I'd describe as apologies and excuses (and explanations) for the JCW's turbo low power. I'm old and don't drive at all like a maniac, but if given a choice, I'd prefer a little more snap!

 

I already proved quite clearly it's not the lowest in its engine-type class. What exactly is the complaint? The most powerful MINI isn't good enough for you? Perhaps you're looking at the wrong brand.

What's enough "MORE POWER" for you; Kawasaki H2R? Koenigsegg One:1? Saturn V rocket? Type 1A supernova?

 

I don't drive on racetrack. I drive on freeways as most of us do and it is where we need performance from time to time to get out of trouble from more powerful cars.

 

I hate A/T on sport cars......I am old school LOL.

 

Even among FWD-only cars, it can be very misleading to look at published power-to-weight figures and draw conclusions about A > B > C. For example, the regular GTI comes up near last in the list of cars ranked earlier in this thread according to published power-to-weight figures. However, a number of magazine reviews show the regular GTI (non-R, FWD only) putting down substantially faster acceleration times than the new JCW. Real world performance is affected by much more than published peak HP/published weight. The shape of the power curve matters; the shape and peak of the torque curve matters (GTI shines there); some new cars seem to be under rated more so than others, etc. In terms of performance, real world test results would re-order that list significantly, and the JCW wouldn't be nearly as close to the top of the heap.


But the Mini has never been about raw performance. Its appeal is based on a combination of unique styling, diminutive proportions, agility and performance that is well above average, if not class leading. The JCW puts more emphasis on the last element - performance - so I think it's fair to hold it to a higher standard of expectation in that regard.


I owned a Gen 1 MCS and a Gen 2 JCW, and really wanted to love the Gen 3 cars. I was prepared to pay the premium for the new JCW when it was time to replace my Gen 2. In fact, I held on to my Gen 2 longer than I wanted, waiting for the Gen 3 JCW to come out. When I finally test drove one of them, it just didn't press the right buttons. While completely subjective, the styling was hit and miss for me: some elements were improvements on the older model while others were downgrades.


The performance was good, but not in line with my own expectations relative to the price premium. I can tell you without a doubt that the regular new GTI (non-R) feels substantially faster in every regard, apart from top gear acceleration (6th gear is extremely tall in the GTI). The quality of interior materials in the GTI is a solid step above the JCW, although the exterior styling is admittedly very bland.


As much as I wanted to love the new JCW, it needs more performance to make me love it, and it falls short in that regard. Given its other positive attributes, it doesn't have to be #1 on the performance list, but it needs to be closer to the top than it is. I ended up skipping this generation and hope to see a stronger offering, perhaps in the mid-cycle refresh. There is a performance arms race going on in the automotive world, whether BMW/Mini likes it or not, and we consumers are the beneficiaries. We can afford to demand more from BMW/Mini.


And in response to the comment about the video of a JCW passing all other cars on track: Videos like that are fun, but almost completely worthless in terms of assessing a car's relative performance potential. As already pointed out, wildly varying levels of driver skill completely skew the results at any typical HPDE. I instruct HPDE newbies for four different organizations, and even within a given group (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced), the difference in skill level can be enormous. If I had a dollar for every time I saw somebody in a 10 year old Miata pass a new Ferrari or Carrera, well, I'd have a whole lot more dollars than I do now. YouTube is replete with such videos. You can only draw conclusions if all the drivers are pros, and thus known to be driving at as similar level of skill.

 

Throwing my .02 in here as I bought a brand new JCW yesterday at the dealer. Having owned and currently owning some fantastic cars I decided to spend the premium on the exclusivity of the JCW badge rather than any type of performance numbers. I think a few members here pointed out that at this price point you are buying an image and I have to completely agree with that.

 

Congrats on your purchase. Despite my reservations about performance relative to current alternatives, the JCW really is an awesome little car. I'm sure all the lucky folks who own them will have a ball with them.