I've been waiting for the Schroth for the R56 since I got my car in August 07. I had a set in my 02 and they were awesome.

I'm not surprised that DT won't modify it for you. That's got lawsuit written all over it.

 

We'll have a harness bar into our R56 by early next week. Safety oriented products are a key aspect of my businesses. The BK product shown below has just arrived - we know it does not fit the R56 so we are working to sort one that will.

We are in close communication with Schroth's distributor, HMS, and the Quickfit is still at least 2-3 months or more from release.

We'll post pix and progress on our Blog.

 

Hello all, newbie here, I mean to Minis, not track days. Been instructing for years. Just a few points, with new insurance rules, some organizations are cracking down, not allowing 5 point harnesses, unless you have a 4point cage in the car. Their reason, and I feel it is valid for track days, is if the car rolls (God forbid), you need to be able to roll to the side, which a five point does not allow you to do. I had this setup in my Evo, and was not allowed at a few Lambo days, or at a PCA day. I had to remove the belts, and use the stockers.

Again, you guys are doing your homework, but I would be sure all organizations you plan to attend will honor a 4/5 pt setup with no rollover protection.

Happy Tracking.

 

Argh - the wait is killin' me. Thanks for the update, though shinoo.

 

A guy at a BMW HPDE here in the Bay Area had to remove his clip-in for the event. Still would be nice for autox, however, especially for those of us with the standard seats.

Anyone ever install a Rallye 4 in a post-07 R56???

Rob

 

The whole part about being able to "turn your head or duck" when in a rollover is just plain stupid. If you ever get in a rollover you will soon realize that not only is it over very quickly, but the forces being applied to your body will almost certainly prevent you from doing any kind thought out positioning of your body. Arms are flying, head is going to go where it wants......not where you want it.

 

Ah, well, I would kind of disagree. If you practice it enough (looking like a whack job "practicing!") those defensive movements can be done to some extent - if you make it instinctual/second nature. Like defensive driving.

The Army does "rollover" drills with humvee simulators as an annual requirement in tactical units - and it really does help. Army stats have shown that the number of injuries and deaths from rollovers (both military vehicle and personal vehicles driven by those who've gone through the training) is WAY lower than before we had 'em. Simulators also mean we don't look quite so odd practicing the drills. It's like an amusement park ride in which you have to wear 70lbs + of gear and other crap in the cab, wearing a four point "seat belt." It can get a bit painful (especially during the vehicle flip)...But totally worth it.

 

As some one who has raced for just over 15 years, I want to chime in. I can tell you, in the beginning, I had little 'awareness' of what was going on when I would get into an accident. But, as the years went by, I became much more acute to where I was, and where my body was. I know much of this came from racing karts for about 8 years, prior to cars, but in the end, I was able to brace, and in most cases, avoid being seriously injured. It all comes down to your 'Sh*tometer'. A fine tuned one allows you to anticipate when things are going bad, and get where you need to be, prior to impact, rather than trying to 'react', after the situation has already passed a point of no return.

However, I will say, as much as I like 5 point harnesses, I do not have them in my new Evo, because I refuse to put a bar in it for track days. I do have one in my Mustang which is competition legal, and in which I get much more 'vigorious' at track days.

 

The bottom line for me is that I can't guarantee that the track or hosting organization will allow them, so I'm reluctant at this point to install them. I'm still thinking about it for autox, where there's about 0 chance of a rollover and where the corners are real tight although the G's are lower.

The comment about rollover training was interesting; the effectiveness would obviously go down as speeds went up, but I guess if you're risking that on a regular basis you'd invest in a cage.

Out of curiousity, what about the air bags? I would suspect they'd deploy in a rollover and would have an impact (ha!) on your ability to duck, at least during the first part of a roll. Are they designed to do anything particular during a roll?

 

We're making good progress with our harness bar. It will be in our R56 this week. I've posted some new info on our BLOG.

I spoke at length again with Schroth (HMS) about options for our cars. We'll have a solution as I want to track my MINI...

 

Good point, for most hardcore track guys/gals, the bags are disabled, or removed. However, most cars have the sensors int he bumpers, and so unless you go end over end, you may get a deployment.

Again, not bashing harness bars, they are great, and nothing beats the support they give you, but for a track day, make sure your organization approves.

 

dp

 

But we are not talking about race drivers or military types with training.....we are talking about occasional track days. As someone who has been involved in a roll over accident on the street it all happens very quickly and not much can be done to try and position yourself to help with minimizing injuries. I don't understand why some clubs are not allowing the use of this Schroth harness, I would think that the simple fact that because you are securely held in place that your car control would be better and not as likely to get into a position that might cause an accident.

My track days have always included signing a waiver, thereby reducing the clubs exposure to a lawsuit.

 

(Sorry for highjacking, kids.) Gotcha, BigShot...but barring the fact not everybody wants, nor can get, the harnesses for daily driving/occaisional track days, I guess it would depend on your philosophy on training (regardless of occupation - military, racers, etc.) and to what extent you want to be ready for this kind of thing. The harnesses are good for security like you said, but to a point. They DO restrict certain movements, and I'd say they're not the *insert fake choir music* THE-all-end-all answer, especially more experienced folks, or folks who end up doing more and more track days. By NO means am I disagreeing with you on the speed at which rollovers happen. I can just see why Schroth is taking their time with the safety stuff. The harnesses (5 and 4-points) are DOT approved, right? Well, so far, they're not certified safe for the '07s, and yet people are putting them in anyway with the mod - even though the mod is technically cosmetic. So the clubs are covering their a@@ to stop the un-certified mods. If they didn't, would anybody realize the safety aspect as much? ESPECIALLY only-occaisional-track-day-types? In Europe, there are laws against mixing tire types on vehicles for pretty much the same reason. Most people don't realize the safety impact of mixing summer/winter tires in Germany, especially going as fast as they do - so to make it obvious to everybody, they made it a law.

On the training thing though: You ostensibly take driving courses to get your license - and SUPPOSEDLY within that drivers training, it includes reaction training...reactions to hydroplaning, to accidents, to rollovers, etc. (My training at 16yrs old sucked and didn't include very good detail on this.) If you don't get this at the begining, or if you want to enhance it later, then you probably take defensive/offensive driving courses - preferably the ones with actual hands-on-get-out-there-and-do-it training. Which I strongly advocate, by the way.

Barring that, how about just thinking about it ahead of time? Kinda like preparing for tornados/hurricanes, you mentally go over your plan of action before the storm hits. "What would I do if I were in a rollover?" Before you had your street scene roll-over accident, how much training did you have? How much did you think about it? I guess that's why I wrote that snippet about the Army training...even when the soldiers who had been through the training in the simulator were driving their personal vehicles, they were better prepared for accidents and rollovers because they were forced to THINK about it before they were faced with it.

Bottom line: it's all about "cover your a@@" for everybody - clubs, vendors, drivers, racers. Nobody wants to be responsible for the bad stuff.

 

Our harness bar is in. We're sorting some final details but it is truely a bolt-on requiring no modifications. It can be easily pulled out after your trackday/autoX. It is massively strong and secures to 5 pts on the chassis. Check our Blog for more info.

Needless to say, I am ecstatic! We're attaching the same Schroth ASM 4pt harness we sorted for use in our Lotus. This bar works with the stock seats. If you are interested in this bar, please contact me.

 

Do you have any pictures of how this works with the stock seats (w/o the pass throughs I assume). Thanks.

BTW, I have a bunch of your Lotus parts and really like them.

 

That looks great, you should extend that bar across the top, and make it a nice hoop. Then, I bet it woudl be good for most track days.

 

Here are some more pix after painting it and installing the Profi II ASM 4pt.




Productions bar will be powdercoated black. Note the rear seat bottom fits back in - for those AutoX guys that require it. The seat travel is excellent even for tall drivers.

 

Our intern, Bill is 6ft 5" and he fits great in the MINI with our harness bar in place - the seat still has additional rearward travel.

The pix below show how far back the seat can be placed.

 

Am I reading this right?

If I want to get a HANS for track days, I have to:

1. Buy a racing seat
2. Fabricate a seat mount kit for R56
3. Get a 5-point or 6-point harness system
4. Add a roll/cage system to anchor harness
5. Have the HANS tether system installed on my helmet

Correct?

 

Sounds right to me.

But, ask some experts:

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/
http://www.saferacer.com/

 

Not necessarily. A race seat is definitely better but our monkeyBAR is enough to anchor a harness.

Give me a call and we can discuss your exact needs. (951)296-6762

 

If you want a 5 or 6 point harness, then you will need the racing seat with the hole on the seat bottom. And you will need to get a approved attachment point for the bottom piece of the harness as well.

If you can get away with 4 point, then the Mini seat would be OK.

Just depends on what you want to do with the setup; Racing, HPDE etc...

 

All this stuff is meant to work together. You cannot really leave out one of the pieces. Especially when you start talking about stuff like HANS.

But, as I said, talk with someone whose job it is to know this stuff.

 

Any update on the clip-in harness? Still nothing on the websites.

Personally, I am not gonna get a harness setup without a rollbar. One of the groups I track with is becoming more adamant about it, and I've seen what can happen to a flipped MINI so I don't think the risk is theoretical.

That brings me to a related query: has anyone installed an Autopower roll bar? They have several versions, and I'd be interested in knowing how difficult the installation was.

Rob