In desperation one cold and windy night I bought a very cheap tool set from Schlep Boys to replace the alt on my old camaro....the set worked fine that night but a month later when using a different size I broke a socket (it looked just like yours)... I called the company b/c it had a lifetime warrenty (yes I know I was shocked too)... they sent me a refund and the cost to remove the bolt I hopelessly stripped when it broke. I spoke to some VP (b/c I had to get approval for the additional costs for bolt removal) and he admitted they used cheap metals to keep costs low. Really? Is that why the socket broke while I was torqueing to 50 lbs....

Good luck

 

I'm not sure exactly what "pot metal" is or what was meant by it, except I infer that you mean it is inferior quality. Well, compared to a set of decent socket wrenches (like Crescent) or a standard tire wrench, it does appear to be a material not anywhere near either in hardness.

PU indicate 85 lbs of torque be used to install their lugs, but exactly how would you measure that when you are using your own two hands? Is there a meter or something they want to sell you at an excessive price that is supposed to measure how much torque is in your hands?

One would expect turning a wrench by hand would never be excessive enough to crack the WRENCH and the KEY, but what do I know? I'm just some poor schnook who fell for the hype before reading up on their reputation here. You would think making a set of locking lug nuts and a specific wrench wouldn't be too hard to make well, but again, what do I know?

As to the latest update, the photos and an e-mail that pleads for a rapid response has gone 24 hours without a peep from PU. They also know the issue is being talked about here on NAM because I mentioned in a follow-up e-mail the universal dissatisfaction I found expressed here about their many products and that the excuses are all the same (bad production run, improper applications, etc).

Well, now I turn the lugs, I mean screws, as my VISA has been notified to dispute both charges, which they willingly did and said this thread on NAM should be sent in to them for additional support. I have found all credit card issuers to not be the same on these disputes; some are more helpful than others and this bank seems to be pretty good, even with charges that are 7-8 months old.

The bottom line is I want the problem fixed, as I have the lugs on the car and no key and no wrench. I'll drop these credit card disputes, if thay can make this right and I'll also post about their handling it properly here (even if it will be a minority in the experiences noted on NAM). The money will be insignificant to the cost of getting these lugs off without their stepping up and making this problem go away. One thing is for certain; I'm NOT going away and they will get a major headache from dealing with me on anything but the level.

 

I suppose if I bought your wheels the rusting lugs wouldn't even show!

 

Pot metal refers to an alloy of inexpensive, low-melting point metals used to make fast, inexpensive castings for toys, tool parts, phonograph and Gramophone components, and automotive parts and accessories. There is no scientific metallurgical standard for pot metal (which is a slang term), but it is also known as white metal, die-cast zinc and often derisively as monkey metal.
Pot metal is known for its instability over time, as it has a tendency to bend, distort, crack, shatter, and pit with age. The low boiling point of zinc and the fast cooling of the newly-cast part often allow air bubbles and zinc oxide to remain within the cast part, weakening the metal. Many of the components of ‘pot metal’ are susceptible to corrosion from airborne acids and other contaminants, and the internal corrosion of the metal often caused the decorative plating to flake off.

 

Thanks for the education! Whatever they used, it certainly performed like crap and now on close inspection looks that way too.

 

Here are the latest e-mails; you decide.


From: Andrew Blackman Sent: Tue 7/31/2007 6:47 AM
To: Carol
Cc: carol@palouber.com
Subject: RE: HELP !!! - EMERGENCY - "SERIOUS" probelm with Lug wrench and key !!!!!



BRYCE:

My initial e-mails over the rusted first set of lugs were not threatening, but expressed frustration. It is this round regarding the broken wrench socket and the lug key that escalated the serious nature of our communications; given these turn of events and the shared experiences about problems with PU that I found on NAM by many posters you ought not be taken aback. I also could see from your last communications that you were suggesting I somehow used air tools on the lugs, which was not the case and I clearly told that to you. It was and is the absolute truth, yet here you squarely accuse me of effectively lying about it.

When you accuse an imaginary installer of using an air tool when I did everything personally by hand it is enormously upsetting. What fantasy are you building in your mind? Is this the only plausible defense of your products that you can muster? Is our e-mail communication that faulty and to blame for this crossroads? I think not, but maybe it was a contributor.

I did not know about your health issues and on a personal level I would not wish anyone ill health over any matter like this, so you have my sympathy, but PLEASE do not make it sound like I should forget my problem in light of yours; that is how your inclusion of it comes across. I wish you well on that front regardless. Maybe your more serious problems contributed to your accusations being made; is that possible? You ought to consider that, as anything else is inexcusable. As to not returning Sean's call, I was not at work yesterday at all and I will not hear my voice-mail messages until I get over to work this morning.

For the last time, the lugs were not installed either time with any air tools. I did them myself, by hand, each time. If you would re-read carefully my e-mails since Sunday, you would see that socket tore open when I installed, by hand, this new batch of lugs. Let me ask, why would I buy your hand wrench, fully knowing it is to be used by hand, only to have the socket placed on an air tool?

As to happy NAM members, forget it. That site is littered with unhappy people who claim to have bought products from you (once I went and read the comments). I found an entire thread about PU littered with complaints and only one person cited an overall positive experience and they chalked that up to luck, because even they could see the flow of the tide.

As to upset, I take anything I purchase that does not work as designed and promoted as a serious failure in business ethics, especially when the first words out of the vendor’s mouth is that I somehow made their product fail by doing something wrong and then goes on to accuse me with a fabricated story that an air tool was used. I allowed you to make good on the replacements, yet the problem only worsened with the cracked socket wrench and the lug key. I was not nearly as upset about the rusting lugs (and there is seemingly several posters on NAM who have had the same problem and some more than once; I will not bother you again for new lugs should it re-occur - I'm done), but I am upset about what certainly appears to be a poorly designed key and socket wrench that both fell apart when simply turned by hand, my own; I cannot get the wheels off, should I ever now need to, without replacements to the socket and the key - now that IS SERIOUS!

Again, on a personal level I wish you good health, but I cannot allow you to falsely accuse me. I will stand up for my rights as a consumer. I see you stated that are going to replace the key and the socket ("I will send you a new Uber Key and socket to replace the ones damaged by the air tools tuesday.") and when you have done this I will notify my credit card company that our dispute has been resolved and we can part company. Again, good luck in your battle with illness.

Andy

 

A typical PU style letter. Nothing is their fault. They feel it's beneath them to discuss design issues with the customer. The customer obviously did something wrong. The customer is mean to them. At least the part about them not threatening is hilarious. On a personal level, I am sorry to hear about Bryce's medical status. But, on a business level, the attempt to use it to make a harmed customer feel bad is unaccpetable. Tell me again why I should order from PU?

 

When I sell, wheels whoever buys them is always very happy

And yes, the covered lug would help the rust not to show

 

hahahaha wait, what? There are plenty of NAM customers who are unhappy. So is that just a blatant lie, or has he just not been paying attention?

It sounds a lot like a lot of the PM's i used to get from them. Did they never touch on the fact that their tuner lugs are rusting?

 

Of course they did. To paraphrase: It's because they were used by an imaginary mechanic who used an imaginary air wrench and, besides, it's only a lug wrench, it's not the end of the world. Just throw it out and order another one from them.

That was about their response.

 

I honestly can't believe that they feel this is an acceptable business practice. Have they ever taken responsibility for anything they've ever done?

I also feel like they're blowing all their tricks in one email. A guilt trip, a potential threat, another guilt trip because they're refraining from threatening you, a fabricated mistake made by the consumer, them trying to blow it off because its such an insignificant amount, and to top it all off, the "you should feel bad for me because I'm sick" excuse. WTF?!

 

They missed the time tested "the dog at my homework" excuse.

 

That'll be the next email they get 2 weeks later. "Oh, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the dog pissed on our server."

 

Isn't this the truth? When I read thier last e-mail I saw every single excuse PU has been accused of using that has been mentioned in this thread.

What is especially galling to me are three things, two of which are in their e-mail. First, I already told them in an earlier round of e-mail when I was having the rusted lugs replaced that I did all the lug changing, myself, by hand, yet they cling to a fabrication that they would have no way to back up whatsoever, which is that some unknown mechanic I hired to change my lugs used an air tool. What a crock and what unmitigated gall! Second, is the use of Byrce's illness as punctuation at the end to shame me into feeling bad about complaining. I mean, I am sure everyone wishes him well in this battle, but one has nothing to do with the other and it HORRIBLY cheapens the serious nature of the man's illness. I hope he wins his battle, but that tactic was beyond insulting. Third is the voice mail I had here this morning from Sean. After mentioning the issues from their point of view, virtually repeating everything in the e-mail, but emphasizing that I had an air tool used on the product (because it ONLY fails when an air tool is used, again implying I am just a bald-faced liar), he goes into how they don't take kindly to threats and on and on and on.

I will call Sean today and assuming he answers the telephone (I've called before without success of getting anything but the answering machine) I hope to make clear they need to take a look at their own products and approach to customer service. The thread here proves this is a pattern of just deny, deny, deny; that is going to make the existing backlash a permanent scar that will likely damage them forever.

 

I personally love PU for the simple fact that their buisness practice is HILARIOUS!

 

To measure this you need something called a torque wrench. You set the required force on a dial on the wrench and then when you reach that point the wrench either slips (ratchets) preventing you from tightening any further, or on very fancy models the wrench beeps, indicating the required torque setting has been reached. Places like Sears or Napa sell very expensive ones, or you can get a perfectly fine, inexpensive torque wrench from someplace like Harbor Freight if you only plan to use it occasionally - I've never heard anyone complain that a Harbor Freight tool has ever let them down (someone please chime in if your experience differs).

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...Itemnumber=239

I highly recommend one as they keep you from accidentally overtightening any OEM fastener and they give you peace of mind that you installed crucial things like lug nuts to the proper tightness.

Good job saving the email thread... Vendors need to be held accoutable to their customers for crap (*****?) like this.

 

Its actually pretty impressive that they could fit that many excuses into one email.

Next they'll be sueing you for libel.

 

I'll be honest with you ...$19.99 marked down to $9.99 scares me a little bit, about both the quality of the tool and the accuracy of the torque measurement.

 

Me too, but I've never tried calibrating it against a more expensive unit - I'd love to test this if anyone in the Columbus area has a "real" torque wrench I can compare it to. Every tool I've ever bought from Harbor Freight has worked flawlessly, though, for whatever that's worth.

 

THANKS for the information on torque wrenches, but here's the Catch 22 in this particular case. PU advises the use of 85 lbs of torque, yet their PU wrench that sells for about $60 does not have a meter and is what they want you to use on their lugs. How do you possibly satisfy both vendor requirements?

 

Heh, maybe the wrench they sold you is designed to break at 86 ft/lb that way you can't go over their recommended 85 ft/lb

You really need to buy 16 wrenches from them to tighten the lug bolts one time.

 

The wrench they sell isn't a "socket" type of thing? A torque wrench is designed to use a simple socket wrench and is sold in a variety of standard sizes to fit your sockets. If they only supply some totally manual, cuastom tool then yeah, there's no way that I know of to read the torque (perhaps someone else knows).

I assume that this means that you can't use a standard tool on their lugs? Personally, I'd avoid them for that reason alone...

This is a great reason to avoid this product (as if I needed another one). So sorry that this happened to you, man - not all NAM vendors are like this, not by a LONG shot. I hope this doesn't sour you on other advertisers here, or on MINIs in general (it's happened in the past). Most vendors here are straight arrows that really care about their customers and are also huge MINI enthusiasts themselves...

 

the McGard SplineDrives I use come with a lock sleeve that they recommend not to use an impact gun on. Sometimes I do to break them off and have never had an issue.....multiple cars, multiple sets of SplineDrives and multiple impact guns.

 

Well, I connected with Bryce by phone. What started out heated ended amicably. We cleared the air; too much personal stuff to share here though. However, PU is sending a replacement socket and key, which hopefully will be the last ones I need and will work fine. I'll certainly report back on how this all ends. I don't enjoy having a problem or posting about it. I'd much rather post about a pleasant experience. Hopefully, that will come as a result. We will see.

 

Good luck! I hope everything turns out ok!