Please share so we can all learn.

Did everyone who's saying that their instructors never say anything about heel/toe stop to think of some possible reasons why? Hmm, let's see:
1. The ability to do so will not mean life/death for the instructor; he/she is just fine with you doing what's comfortable.
2. HPDE is first about safety, and if you CAN'T do it, the track is NOT the place to practice (ie, at the limit).
3. It's a more advanced technique used to make sure the car is not unbalanced at the absolute limit of braking - maybe you're not getting there, and maybe you have much larger issues with your driving that need to be addressed.
4. It's a skill that is way down on the totum pole of what's important for you right there right now - right, the porsche is up your ****, and your instructor wants you fiddling with your feet?

I'm not saying that I'm good enough on the track for it to be an issue; I just took it upon myself to listen to the first HPDE instructor I ever had when he said (after the day was over). "one thing you can really do to improve is work on your footwork on downshifts so you're not upsetting the balance of your car." So I took it upon myself to learn/practice/apply it on the street (out of habit) and track. As a matter of fact, my last instructor commented on it and was impressed. I guess I was going so slowly it didn't make sense that I knew how to heel/toe

So your instructors haven't mentioned it, mine have. Who wins? They're both poor, invalid arguments for or against the use of this technique. What's real is the reasoning behind the instructors' actions; above are just speculations, so next time you're out, and if it is or is not mentioned, just ask his/her opinion.

mb

 

 

I'm only 5'2, so yes, small feet, but i've tried heel-toe... just for fun when no one is around. My Mini isn't modded in anyway for racing, but it is nice to learn how to really DRIVE!!! and i can't afford going to a class to learn ..
so for now, heel-toe for enjoyment in a great little car !!!

 

During class at a BMW CCA driver's school on Friday, the instructor took a significant amount of time out to describe and explain the benefits of heel/toe. He also encouraged everyone to practice on the street (not the track) if they want to continue to progress and get quicker at the track.

mb

 

I tried to heel-toe in my CVT, no dice

 

Me, I don't brake hard enough to be able to blip the throttle properly. I just take an additional split second to rev-match after braking prior to engaging the clutch.

Considering that the throttle in the MINI pivots from the floor, using one's heel to blip it (as is done in the instructional videos) seems awkward to me. One of these days I'll figure it out, I guess.

 

If your feet are small and you have trouble covering both the brake and gas pedals at the same time, you can try an aftermarket pedal cover set with an extension. I just installed a set in my MC and I really like it. I got mine from UUC Motorwerks, but I've seen the same set (without the UUC logo) on ebay for less. Here's a pic of my car with the pedal covers installed:

 

Um, can you move out of the way so we can see the pic?

 

I've tried to attach them, but they don't show up. Now when I try, it gives me an error message that they have already been attached to this thread.

 

Maybe this will work...

 

Since I wore out my 1st gear synchros on my Mazda MX3, I usually double clutch and heel / toe when I can. Synchros can wear out if overused.

 

I've never learned proper heel-toe or double clutch techniques. I will attempt to rev-match on occasion, especially on a downshift in hard driving, but that's about it.

 

I evidently use heel/toe method and quite enjoy it. I intially wanted to learn it as an exercise if I could actually do it. Now after two months I use it everytime I go for a drive. I'm not perfect at it, but I can do it well enough for normal road use.

 

I can do it but I don't bother. My transmission has modern syncromesh gears which pretty much eliminate the need for it in my opinion. If you are a good enough driver that it makes a difference to you in a competitive race, then it might be beneficial. Or if you want to learn to do something that people HAD to do before modern synchromesh gears, then it is an interesting novelty.

 

True, but you're still putting undue wear on your synchros and the wear surfaces on the clutch, right?

 

I have done this on camaro and while it feels smooth and slick, it never did much for me. I have won a lot of brutal street races and outrun the police several times as well. heal toe didnt do it, neither did a big engine.

Just slam those gears and eat your wheaties, let the rpm's fly until you almost pop your engine. yes, all non-nam techniques, I know.

 

Are we still talking about heel-and-toeing, or double clutching? Because I don't think that heel-and-toeing reduces the wear on the syncros. If you apply the gas while the clutch is depressed, you're not changing the input shaft speed in the tranny, so the syncros still have to bring everything up to speed.

Double clutching is when you manually sync the box, right?

 

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but both heel-toe and double-clutching are techniques to rev-match prior to shifting into a gear. Thus, both can be used to reduce wear on the synchros.

 

Waltr Rohl and Gary Sheehan in the videos were both using double clutch heel and toe. Kinda hard to tell, but these guys are pros so they do it really quick. DCHT will actually make you faster, but you have to be 110% sure you're doing it right. For most of us single clutch heel and toe is more than enough.

Here are a couple of more videos of different styles.

Aryton Senna driving an NSX at Suzuka. I think this style is suitable for people with big feet. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...26&q=senna+nsx

This is one of the Best Motoring guys driving an RX8 at Laguna Seca. I think this style is suitable for people with small feet. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02536941&q=RX8

 

dude!!
tnks for the videos!!!!
that has been the most helpful thing in learning how to heel toe for me!!!!!
plus those were some great vids of pros rippin it up!!

 

Agreed! That was pretty sweet on the Rx-8 video that the had the corner box focused on the pedals. I don't think I've seen that in a video before. Plus it's always cool to see races on tracks that I've been on...on GT4.

I could take that chump.

 

I am the proud owner of a 06 mcs with a 6-speed auto. (wife doesn't drive clutch) I've noticed the tranny downshifts when coasting down hill in full auto mode. I thought that went out when brakes became good enough to stop the car by themselves. I realize this may seem like a strange post for this thread but it seems related to the last sentence. Comments?

 

Great video! I've never seen a heel toe shift depicted so clearly before in a video!

 

If you look close you'll see Senna using a different technique. The left side of his foot on the brake and the right side of his foot on the clutch. Doesn't ever use his "heel". It's the techique I'm most comfortable with for what ever reason.

I had an old Datsun pickup with a bad idle that would die coming to a stop if I didn't keep the revs up. That's how I learned to heel and toe....didn't have a choice!

Just practice reving the engine while your braking to a stop. Then you can move up to actually downshifting. It's easier to learn then you think.

 

quick dumb question...
when you blip the throttle...u dont keep your foot on it right?
u just push on...let off then let out the clutch?