And in another 5 years the 3rd gen cars will look small and light compared to the 5000lb EV hatchbacks crossovers cruising around.

...yes... suspiciously JUST like driving a BMW...

Thanks for a solid chuckle on a long friday. ;]

 

While I have a definite affection for all Mini’s, they are getting quite large!
My last trip to Seattle Mini had me park next to a new all4 clubman. I swear it was both wider and taller than my 1st gen Countryman. Really the R60 looked physically smaller than the F55! It was startling.

 

[QUOTE=MiniAndo;4493368
...yes... suspiciously JUST like driving a BMW...
[/QUOTE]
I was at the BMW store in summer of 2016, intent on getting a BMW to replace my Range Rover. A MINI Clubman S caught my eye. Having just test driven a couple of nice Bimmers, I took the MINI for a spin. Yes, the BMW DNA was evident, but it was definitely not a BMW,in many good ways. I went with the MINI and just ordered another 3rd Gen Clubman. Usually I switch brands every 3 years -- short attention span. This time, She Who Must Be Obeyed is in total agreement that our replacement for our current MINI will be another MINI. All the things I love about these 3rd gen cars are probably the things others don't like. I think it's true, the yuupification/gentrification of MINI did what it was supposed to do -- hooked someone like me who previously had never given the brand a serious look. 66 years old and Motoring in my MINI.

As for the 3rd gen going to pot. I'm 3rd gen American. I'm old. I look in the mirror and yes, goin' to pot... in a MINI I love to drive.

 

For Me, I think the original Mini follows what the name is all about, its small, its MINI !

I could not afford to purchase one of the original MINI's so I bought a 2006 Gen 1 MINI S.

After my model year I am no longer interested in moving up to what the brand has become.

I might as well go over to a VW Golf GTI or Maybe the new VW Electric Golf type vehicle.

Sorry MINI, you have lost your focus on what this automobile is all about.................. Small & MINI.

 

Companies need to be profitable, BMW is no exception, and mainstream sells more than niche. However, niche garners disproportionate attention. The marketing playbook seems to then be:

1) Create a niche product and generate buzz and following.
2) Make niche product more mainstream over time to increase sales.
3) Make a new niche product (or brand) if/when sales plateau or start to drop off or when said product is no longer in original category.

This happened with the BMW 3 series. Over time, the cars got so large, so the 1 and 2 series were introduced. MINI seems to be following the same script. When I was shopping for my R53 there would always be ads with a story line of 'have to sell, kid on the way.' Now with a 3rd gen 5-door that does not necessarily have to happen. More people can have the so-called 'MINI experience', even if it is somewhat watered down.

My issue is that the original value proposition of MINI is that it was well, mini (small, and somewhat contrarian) but MINI has moved away from that original philosophy with larger successive generations and has not really changed that proposition. For my dollar I feel I would be getting less substance and more image. As mentioned to each their own, if a product is more accessible then more people can share in the experience, even if it is a little watered down.

 

Everyone's commentary, and your various points of view are well received and very interesting. Thank you all!

Just a couple of specs found online at, Auto123.com. Please don't shoot me if they vary slightly with other sources. These are all Cooper S, Hardtop models w/6MT:

2004 Curb wt 2678 lb, OAL 143.8".
2009 Curb wt 2758 lb, OAL 145.6".
2016 Curb wt 2784 lb, OAL 151.9

From 2004 to 2016 this model "Mini" has gained 106 pounds and grew in length by 8.1 inches.

A conv. top will add 140-150 lbs to the mix where available, and the auto-trans option will add 40-50 lbs.

 

I was thinking about this thread on and off this weekend and I keep coming back to MINI's old ad campaign.

"NOT NORMAL"

And I think that's the biggest difference for me. Modern MINIs are still unique in a number of ways but like Fizzyx said, they aren't niche anymore. And I'm man enough to admit that I'm a total hipster. I don't want to be driving the same thing as everyone else, even if it IS the best car ever.

I would love to see a special edition MINI aimed at the enthusiast. Strip weight and bulk, manual only. But I know as well as BMW NA that nobody would buy one.

 

I'd love to know track width and wheelbase across generations. You make the most of a small platform by pushing the wheels as far out to the corners of the car as possible. I always thought gens 1 and 2 did that very well but those extra 8" inches for gen three added only overhang. (In my perception)

Huh... I thought the R53 was significantly lighter than that.

 

MINI still is putting out some limited edition cars -- 60th Anniversary, Oxford, rumors about a limited run of Thunder Gray JCW Clubman, the GP.... but the big forward push for the next round will be electric with supposedly over 40,000 orders in Europe so far. Not exactly strip weight and bulk, though the GP is at least a nod to enthusiasts who are willing to pay up.

I drive around Southern California daily -- usually in our MINI. I do see at least one other MINI almost every time I'm out and about. And for every MINI I spot, I see many, many, many Hondas, Mercedes, BMWs by the gazillions, Toyotas and their Lexi cousins, and, of course, tons (literally) of Ford, Chevy, Ram, and Toyota trucks and large SUVs. And Range Rovers lumbering about everywhere.

MINI may not be what it was in Gen 1, but there still isn't anything else out there that comes close. Every time I see a Civic or a Subaru or a BMW X-whatever, or even the occasional Alfa or Jag, I think, "Nah."

I still think I'm hip in my MINI, even though I'm man enough to admit I haven't been cool in probably 50 years, if I ever was. Just rockin' my own kinda cool, in my very hip and iconoclastic MINI. I even think Coral Red Metallic with a Melting Silver roof and black rims and black trim accents is gonna be cool. I'll find out in a few weeks.

But I'll tell ya this. The Missus and I were test driving a BMW X2 a few weeks ago and five minutes into the test drive we looked at one another and said, "Get another MINI." So we are.

 

Mini has done a great job of still giving the Mini, especially the 2 door the illusion of still being mini. When they stand by themselves in a parking lot they look the same as they always have but park it next to say a Civic and they're almost the same size! Thankfully the Mini still has character, you see a Mini and there's no mistaking it's a Mini. In a world full of cookie cutter Asian cars the Mini still has it. In that regard BMW/Mini get a nice high five!

 

All specs for an S Hardtop (based on Wikipedia):
G1 G2 G3 Max Difference
Wheelbase: 97.1" 97.1" 98.2" 1.1"
Length: 143.9" 146.8" 150.4" 6.5"
Width: 66.5" 66.3" 68.0" 1.7"
Height: 55.8" 55.4" 55.7" 0.3"
Weight: 2,678 lb 2,668 lb 2,657 lb 19 lbs

So if Wikipedia is to be believed, we're talking about differences of about 1-2" in wheelbase/width and 7" in length. Also, the G3 is the lightest?

Again, this is based on a quick Wikipedia search on this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_Hatch) but if it's true, then the car hasn't really gotten larger and heavier. People might be comparing a 2 door hatchback to a Countryman or Clubman?

 

Very very interesting discoveries being made. I appreciate you digging up the stats.

Now if only MINI fans were the type of car buyers to make purchases based on specs instead of driving feel. ;]

Anyway, back on topic... This discussion was originally about MINI design, not engineering or driving dynamics (or even size!)

The 3rd gen styling is my least favorite MINI design language.
Cooper is just a little bit bubbly for me on the front end and the S/JCW have those odd square sub-lips going on. Ironically these S/JCW aero elements bring the styling back towards the squared off look of Gens 1 & 2 but they do it so awkwardly that it looks out of place to my eyes. Besides, all cars have faces, MINIs especially, and I can never shake the mental image of every gen 3 S/JCW having a MASSIVE underbite. I just want to send them all to the orthodontist!

I originally hated the bloated look of the gen3 tail-lights and they have grown on me over the years, but they certainly look most at home on the Cooper, without the S/JCW bumper/spoiler.

The exception is the Clubman, which looks absolutely brilliant from Cooper through JCW. I love the Clubman and would happily accept one into my garage tomorrow if they didn't cost twice* as much as a comparable 4Motion Sportwagon. As a big fan of the original Clubman, the current gen Clubby is better than the original and is currently the best looking car MINI makes.

Oh, and the new Countryman looks silly with the license plate mounted on the hatch instead of the bumper.

So, in summary, Gen 3 rounds off too much of the Bulldogge styling for my taste, with added square under-bites for no apparent reason. However the Clubbie is nearly perfect... Here's hoping they get hit with the "Wagon in the USA" depreciation so I can pick one up soon. Gen 3 is overall my least favorite MINI styling, but they still look better than 80% of the other cars on the road, so keep buying them so I have more eye candy!

*Hyperbole, but the price gap is still quite massive for my buying needs.

 

LOL, and I disagree with most of that.
Love those squarish bits on the S front bumpers. Better looking IMO than the original R53 S.
Much prefer the rear of the new Countryman. The hatch on the old one looked odd with soooo much flat empty space.
The clubman is by far my least favorite mini ever. On the old one I hated the black trim on the back. And the new one looks like someone stepped on a 4 door hatch, flattening it and making it longer. It looks so oddly stretched out.
The countryman may be large, but at least it keeps the bulldog proportions that make the MINI a MINI.

I don't care what car we are talking about, there is always going to be someone complaining about the new designs and lamenting over the old, or vice-versa.
As the old saying goes, “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time”.

 

Form follows function. Or government regulations. The majority of design changes were made to satisfy European (and a few US) new government pedestrian "safety" and environmental regulations. An obvious example is the F56 front bumper/hood. The 2020's result is the exhaust filter resulting in "quieter" sound emissions (no pops and gurgles) and no JCW exhaust. It appears that BMW has done a fairly good job maintaining the "MINI style" despite these annual (some ****) mandates.

 

I go back to ‘05 when I bought my first MINI. Back then, 5e MINI brought on a feeling of fun and excitement. The color palette showed that. Gray, white silver, black, does little of that. Also back in G1, MINI sent the new buyers all kinds of swag, and gadgets, to continue that excitement factor.

I blame BMW/MINI on losing that excitement factor.

 

No worries, we're all still friends! Not all OG Clubmans had black two tone BTW.

You got me here, never real thought about that aspect. I was just turned off by how large they had gotten without adding seemingly any interior volume. But hey, it's their top selling product, gotta keep the customer happy, even if that's not me.

I've read this a number of places. Are JCW Pro exhausts about to skyrocket in value? Haven't seen one equipped on a used car in a few months, I think everyone's holding their Manual Straight Piped MINIs until further notice. =/

Agreed! I was just specing a MINI the other day and super disappointed that there are something like a dozen shades of grey and 3 "fun" colors. And of those colors two of them are trim exclusive! What happened to "design your own MINI" !?

Though I like that they are doing some interesting colors like the coral pink on the clubbie.

 

If you need trinket brand identity, go for a Porsche. They have hundreds of clothing offers. I started with an 03 and have a 13 and a 15 MINI. When was the last time you bought MINI swag? With millennials, auto branding is out, not Green enough. So are cars. Granted, talking to a rep from MINI USA, their marketing strategy was off and they admit it. Times and tastes change. A dealer manager told me that the whole industry has changed drastically in the last years. They limit options because they have to lease them for three years and then sell them to stay in business. Weird option combinations kills that resale. Plus, not many in Europe are buying new cars, especially in the MINI range, for various reasons. Look it up.
As far as color options go, that too is a result of government regulations. The base coat now has to be water based with a water based top coat of clear. No metal flake paints. Some colors just do not work. Result? Limited palette choices. I find it exciting enough to take a road trip on today's interstates, especially cross-country. Blood pressure always goes up when contending with the current skill level of other drivers.

 

I never had a doubt.

 

I just got a usb thumb drive in the mail last week for my 2019. Woooooo!

 

Something else I want to say is that all this hate is one thing I hate about this forum. So much bitching and moaning over MINI.
We should be excited about all MINIs. Big, small, whatever. I see another MINI on the road and it makes me smile. I don't care what gen it is or what model.
If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Complain to MINI directly (try their facebook page, email CS, or OMG.... make an actual phone call), or vote with your wallet and go buy a Fiat if you want a smaller car.

 

This is what came to mind when I saw the first F56. Didn’t like them at all. Then, on 9/15 I found myself with a spanking new F Car. Traded my ‘07 MCS that I spent three years getting it just like I wanted it. After almost 4 years and mucho dinero I have this one “almost” finished.

 

The way I look at it is people don't bother complaining about things they don't care about. It might come across as hate to you but I love all MINIs (some more than others, I guess that could be exaggerated as hate) and want to see the brand succeed. Sharing your opinion with like-minded individuals is somewhat self defeating, but I think it is important to know "I'm not the only one" as much as it is important to be challenged on your viewpoints.

I think a good parallel to the whole generational preference thing is the music industry. You get tons of people bitching and moaning every time an artist drops a new album, but the fact that those people are spending the time to air their dirty laundry means that they are still invested, even if they are disgruntled. I think a lot of negative things about modern Nissan, but I honestly don't care enough about the brand to waste my time complaining (I guess, with the exception of right now...)

As long as people stay civil and acknowledge that their own opinions are NOT fact I have no problem with a little haterade getting spilled from time to time, it helps people establish a deeper sense of community. Us 2nd gen owners can make fun of the bloaty visuals of the 3rd gen and 3rd gen owners can make fun of our dash rattles, French engines, and self destructing windscreens. No hard feelings, we're all family here!

Heh... Should I tell them what I drive? Should I do it? Naw...

On a related note this argument is no longer valid...RIP the 500 in the US... We barely knew ya! =[

 

I think this focus on lease + resale was an issue for me. When I was customizing a car, the options were much less than I would have liked. It mainly felt like choosing what package you wanted and some little features at the end (roof rails or short antennae, etc). So it didn't feel like it was worth custom ordering. To me, part of the "fun" and personality of MINIs is seeing how each person makes them their own. Even if it's something I wouldn't do to mine, it's nice to see how others customize.

Colors are always an issue with me. First, if you are going to charge me $500 extra for a color, that's one thing, but then you limit that color to a trim package that adds another $2-8k on top of that. Then when I decided that it wasn't worth custom ordering a MINI, even with a signature trim, all the color options were from base models: gray, white, black... And that's not to say that I don't like the gray that I ended up buying, but it seems like MINIs have so many color options, but I rarely get to see them. A coworker had to give me a ride to the dealership once and he even commented on how all the cars were the same color even though you imagine all these different colors and designs on MINIs.

 

Wise beyond your years, son. With exquisite taste in automotive design.

 

I love the black, white and gray colors of cars today. I just wish everyone else didn't like it is so mine would be unique.