It is amazing the amount of bad information in this thread.

The bill for repairs is basically to replace all the fuel system components that might be damaged by running E85. This is a fairly conservative approach to fixing the problem; if the system were drained and refilled with E10, it is possible it might be Okay as is, but OTOH, you may have sowed the seeds for premature failure of the fuel pump, etc. Other than the fuel system, I see very little risk of other problems. This is not like diesel which has a very low octane value and can cause major mechanical issues due to engine knock if used in a gas engine. E85 actually has a much higher octane number. The reason the car runs so poorly on E85 is mostly because the fuel system has to deliver a much higher volume of ethanol to the engine since ethanol only has about 70% of the energy value of gasoline. The entire fuel system has to be re-calibrated to deliver much larger volumes of fuel.

Because a car mfg designs a fuel system to tolerate E10 does NOT mean it can tolerate E85. That's like saying that because someone can tolerate a few beers, that's it's Okay to down a gallon of whiskey.

E15 is a catfight right now and will have to play out. The EPA has judged that it feels it can safely be used in cars older than 2001; the mfgs are saying not so fast. E15 is only sold in a handful of stations in a handful of states right now (principally corn belt states), and it is sold alongside E10 in separate pumps with VERY clear labeling. The mfgs are pushing to have some kind of special dispensing nozzle to prevent putting E15 in a car that has not been certified by the mfg for it. For the forseeable future, E10 will continue to be available and E15 will not be simply substituted for E10. But you may pay a little more for E10. I suspect the mfgs will cave and start certifying their newest cars for E15.

- Mark

 

If our cars are calibrated for e85, what happens to the fuel economy? Also, saying the alcohol enriched is cheaper is discounting the federal subsidy,no?

 

It goes down by about 25%. Presumably the fuel is cheaper so the cost per mile is similar. Range does go down though.

Not sure of your question. The main reason E10 is cheaper than pure gas and E85 is cheaper yet is because of federal fuel subsidies. The relative economics of ethanol vs. gas is a complex subject.

I suggest we leave the ethanol politics out of this thread - they're plenty on this forum and others to debate this. The OP has a misfueled car with serious questions about what needs to be fixed and who will pay for it; I doubt he really cares about the politics at the moment.

- Mark

 

Thank you, Mark.

Unfortunately, I will have no choice but to go with the insurance company.

Gas station refuses to pay for the entire bill; they even find the revised $2400 flush and fuel filter repair unnecessary. Their claim settlement was poorly worded. Had I signed it, I would give up all of my rights to any compensation. Clearly, the gas station is trying to play this dirty.

What I consider doing, is to ask the company for approximately $1000 to cover the deductible and any further costs that may be associated, sign the waiver, then involve my insurance company and file insurance claim under comprehensive coverage.

 

I think you're probably making the best of a bad situation.

Is the fuel distributor still involved, or have they washed their hands of the entire situation and left it to the gas station to resolve? I would think the higher up the food chain you can get in the gas distribution order, the deeper the pockets and the more willing to be relatively generous in their settlement.

I think you're screwed with Mini - the wording in the warranty is pretty clear that if you have a mis-fueling, then the warranty on the fuel system is toast. You could go with a cheaper option and take your chances on the warranty, but that has, of course, risks.

You could cetainly sue and have a very strong case against the gas station and fuel distributor. Any judge would tend to side with you that if X is required to keep the warranty intact according to the mfg, that X is your true damages. But suing would be expensive and probably not cost effective. You could take them to small claims, but that would involve a ton of your time and sometimes it is very difficult to get a judgement against someone in small claims to actually get paid.

You could go public with this... I would think the local TV stations might find this an interesting case. And you might get a lot more folks coming out of the woodwork that are in a similar situation with you. There is definitely strength in numbers. But again, stuff like this can become a half-time job.

I would think that if you could get all the folks involved to sit down in the same room, everybody could give a little and make this all work. If everybody chipped in and you perhaps dropped replacing the most expensive components in the fuel system for some type of warranty on these components, you could get the cost reduced to make it palatable to everyone involved.

Let us know how it all works out.

- Mark

 

3 years ago, my '08S was filled with gas contaminated with water. After a minute, the car quit running. The car was towed to the Mini dealer in Sacramento and the next day I got the bad news. The repair bill was just under $4000, but they told me that the station was at fault and because I had my receipt, I could prove where the bad gas was purchased. I called the station and then the distributor and their insurance reimbursed me for all repairs, car rental, and even a tank of gas.
I think they're playing hardball.

 

make a sign and stand outside the gas station letting people know what happened...that should get teh attention of the gas company.

 

This does work. I once bought a new car and I noticed the guy doing my first 500 mile serivce was smoking in my car. Mind you I am a non smoker and this was brand new with leather. I complained to the manager and he right in front of me he bitched at the guy servicing it. Then I go outside to notice my driver door was keyed and he was getting a car right next to where he parked mine. Needless to say I caused a major scene. The dealer then copped an attitude and refused to fix it. I said fine I can take care of this myself. I parked accross the street for about 3 days with a sign warning all not to buy there and to stop and ask me why. After the 3 days they came over to me and offered to fix it and provide me with 3 years free service and they fired the employee. A squeaky wheel gets the grease and then some.

 

Are you sure that it was E85 and not water, Paul? Did you do an independent test on the remaining fuel? If you have to prove it in court, it will make a difference.

 

Because it sounds like the station admitted fault for water contamination (based on your FB post) but the dealer says that it was E85. It may be important to have the proof of one or the other if it comes down to a fight.

 

My lawyer is squeezing money out of them as we speak. I only performed the flush and the car is perfectly fine. We will see if there ever will be any long term damage.