I have a 2003 Cooper (non-s, R50) with right around 100k miles. In the summer of 2010 I changed the oil in the car for the first time after buying it. Wanting to be well prepared I searched this site as well as others as to small details to be aware of in the oil change. All seemed to go well except that a plastic retention clip for the oil filter housing was missing. Instead of calling an expert (ignorance) I went off what seemed to be the answer from the forum "that model didn't need it." So I didn't bother. I immediately begin getting a low oil pressure light when the RPM's dropped below 1000. In my naivety I was unaware of how severe this was. I kept checking the oil and didn't find it low and thus stayed confused but didn't act further to remedy the situation.

About 2 months later my number 3 spark plug blew out of the head on I85 between Charlotte and Greenville, SC. I used a spark plug socket to put it back in. Drove fine. (Should have had it looked at as soon as possible-ignorance) Two weeks later the same thing happened, this time with the force to put a hole in the bonnet sound matting. This time it would not go back in. A family friend is a general mechanic (as in not MINI specific) he suggested a helicoil be put on it and to save money the head should remain on the car. I took his advise (ignorance). Car now ran fine with the exception of a noticeable "tick" from the engine bay. When I inquired I was told to ignore it that it was likely something along the line of "loud fuel injectors or a pulley." About a month after this the car started sounding terrible. It sounded like it did when the spark plug blew out. I immediately had it towed back to the same family mechanic who put in the helicoil. After running some preliminary test he made the guess that it was a blown head gasket. After inquiring into the cost of this repair I realized I couldn't afford it at the time and parked it for around 8 months.

Upon improving my financial situation I started calling around to find a shop that specialized in the Cooper. The first shop I found when searching for "import shop" in my local area was in the next town over. I called and specifically asked the owner "do you work on import cars?" "yes we do" "what about MINI Coopers" "Oh yea we get those all the time" "Great, I think I have a blown head gasket and I'm aware that there is no way to tell for sure without opening it up, can you do that?" "Absolutely." So I had it towed down there. (Side note- when I got the car I was informed that it had always had Mobile 1 and NGK sparkplugs due to the recommendation of BMW MINI so I requested that those parts be used when the car was finished and even offered to go buy them and drop them off if it made it any easier on them) That afternoon the head had been taken off the car and I got a phone call "It appears that the head gasket is fine, however, one of the valves in the #3 cylinder is burnt and missing a 1/4in hunk and the helicoil that was put in didn't allow the spark plug to be screwed in low enough and therefore it had been sitting, firing in the sparkplug tube. We suggest we send the head to our expert head shop to see if they can fix it. If not it'll be a new head." So I had them send the head to the head shop. This took forever but it was to be understood. When the head was finished the owner of the shop called me and said that the head shop recommenced putting an oversized head gasket on to compensate for the metal that was planed off in the head resurfacing process. Sounded right to me (naiveness). A few days later the car was reassembled and I went to pick it up. Before paying my $1500 tab (which was quoted $500 less over the phone but I understand things change) I asked "It got Mobile 1 and NGK sparkplugs right?" To which I was assured happened.

Upon driving the car for the first time in over a year I noticed that it definitely sounded better than it did when I parked it however I couldn't help but notice that the "fuel injector/belt" tick was still persistent. I didn't say anything at the time. (Ignorance mixed with sheer happiness to have my BRG/White baby back). I drove her to work for two weeks and noticed that the low oil pressure light was still coming on under 1000 rmps. I also found a little white "Champion" sparkplug box under the seat... After about a week I cranked the car to again here the horrible "tin can in the engine" sound. After raising the rpm's over ~3000 at idle and letting them drop the noise went away. Exactly 13 days after I picked the car up it made the noise even worse. The next afternoon I drove the car back to the shop, told him that I wasn't angry but that the problem didn't seem any better than it was before and left it with him. I cranked it for him in the parking lot to hear the death rattle. He agreed to figure it out. Two days later he called me and said the his mechanics couldn't recreate the sounds nor the low oil pressure... This was mind blowing considering how consistent the issues were with me in the two weeks I had it back. The next day I call him to check on it and he told me "I drove it down the road to try to recreate the problem and it quit." "It did what ?" "Yea it just quit" "Any idea why?" "No, but we'll get it in the shop, figure it out, and call you back." "Ooookkk..." The next day he called me and told me "The timing chain broke..." He then told me neither his mechanics, himself, nor the local MINI dealership he said he called were sure if that year Cooper had an intermittent engine in it. I'm new to all of this (albeit trying hard to learn) so I was unsure myself. Despite this, the owner of the shop suggested that I do some research to help him figure it out... (Who's supposed to be the car expert again??) At this point the lack of competency on his part for someone who said "They work on them all the time" was quite in doubt. So this is when I contacted Mr. Way from Way Motor Works. I would like to start by saying that this man has been awesome. Despite his hectic schedule he has always made time to speak with me directly and be very open and forthcoming with me. I called and explained the situation to Mr. Way. When I finally got to the end (broken timing chain) he was shocked and amazed and told me that he hasn't seen an R50 timing chain break in the 10 years he's been working on them. (He noted the chain's are a different stories on the SC and TC models) He told me that of course there was no way to tell for sure what happened however he was quite confident that there is no way to break an R50 timing chain without putting it back together incorrectly. He suggested I have the car towed to him. He said he would take it apart, record in writing what he found, tell me what it would take to fix it, and do so if I chose. From there I spoke with my lawyer. After explaining everything he suggested I remove the car from the shop property as quickly as possibly to avoid 1. the shop trying to work on it and then putting a lien on it because I owe them money and 2. so they don't try to cover anything up. He then suggested I take it to Mr. Way to have it examined and receive a written testimonial as to what happened. From there I was advised to file a case with the local magistrate court in hopes of receiving the wasted $1500 along with any additional repair cost caused by the shop. I first gave the shop owner the opportunity to simply refund the money and give me my car. He claims that I can't prove it was his fault. In my opinion I shouldn't have to. I brought the car to him running, paid to get it fixed, got it back, it wasn't fixed, and now it's not even running...he has to prove he DIDN'T do it. He claims that long term low oil pressure could have caused the timing chain to jump and break however Mr. Way informed me that there would have been many more warning signs before that happened, which there were not. Mr. Way also informed me that them suggesting the oversized head gasket was foolish due to the headshop taking 3/1000s and the oversized gasket being 30/1000s thus causing the car to lose compression and power. The shop also claimed that not only the plastic retainer in the oil filter housing was missing (true) that the spring was also missing (false last time I opened it). Even if this is true they had the oil out of the car to work on it so when they put a new filter in it before they called and said it was done shouldn't they have noticed that? So upon refusal to refund me my money I towed the car to Way Motor Works in Atlanta, GA. Mr. Way and his associates informed me that they found the timing chain in 5 pieces in the oil pan, both timing guides broken at the metal, & the oil pump broken. He suggested replacing those parts and seeing if it would run. I told him to go ahead. After those parts were replaced my bill with his shop is sitting at around $600 currently. After those parts were replaced he said that the car runs, however, there is no compression in cylinder 2 and very low compression in cylinder 4 (or 3? he couldn't remember due to being on the road) either way, this led him to believe that there were bent valves in those cylinders and that the head needed to be pulled again, pressure checked, valves replaced, and whatever else the subcontracted head shop needed to do to the head. Unfortunately there was no "smoking gun" per say as Mr. Way had hoped and anticipated. No lose cam bolts or anything that for sure allowed Mr. Way to comfortably say that it was 100% the other shop's fault. This work would run me $850 plus whatever the headshop charges Mr. Way. This will put my total bill with Way Motor Works probably ~$1500-$2000. So if I get all that done, assuming it needs nothing else mechanically right now, I have put ~$3000-$4000 in a car that has a KBB of ~$7500. I can only imagine that in it's current state I could only get ~$1000 for it.

If you have made it this far, I applaude and thank you. I truly do not know what to do. Truth is, I had to get a personal loan for the first repair so I deffinatly don't have another $2000 sitting around. Any suggestions, insight, ridicule for my ignorance and naitivity, kind words, or wisdom is fully accepted and appreciated.

Mr. Way, if you read, as I know you frequent the forums, please fill free to correct me on anything you see incorrect, misquoted, or less than accurate. I truly appreciate your profesionalism and patience.

 

What we have here is not a display of ignorance but rather the very human desire to save money. Too often, those with little experience and little money, fall prey to the cheap way out offered by those with no knowledge. Had you taken it to a dealer to begin with, odds are very good you would have a running vehicle with the money you have spent already.

 

You very well may be right. However, the local dealership (the one it was acctually purchased from 9 years ago) couldn't even tell the mechanic what type of engine it had according to the shop. Strange.

 

I have no words of wisdom. Just wanting to let you know that I am sorry for the problems with your MINI. I would find a way to pay for the repairs if possible so that you have a running vehicle. It is cheaper to do this than to buy a new one. I understand you need to have a loan to pay for the first repairs could you possibly up the loan to cover the total repairs? Hope you get this resolved soon. Best wishes.

 

It's s hard to know what advice to give, but as lisajt says, it is still cheaper than buying a new one, or a used one with other problems. Unfortunately, these little cars are sturdy but they should only be worked on by specialists. That mechanic messed up big time. Too bad it doesn't sound like you can prove it. A hard lesson.

So sorry.

 

I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on, you took it to the shop and you told them it had a blown headgasket, so they did the work you asked them to do. They found the problem with the burned valve and the poorly installed helicoil and fixed both. Not their fault if there was something wrong with the car over and above that.....

Did you tell them about the low oil pressure light coming on?

Did you tell Way about that?

You might need a complete engine overhaul before you're all done here
or a replacement used engine.

The big cost here will be the labor, this is not an easy engine to work on, and replacing one requires a lot of hours of work.

Good luck, but as someone said, it's still cheaper to fix this one than buy a new one. If you can't pay a $2000 bill, what are you gonna use to buy a new car?

Oh, and the term you were looking for is "interference engine", not intermittant....meaning if the timing chain breaks the valves and pistons will hit - non-interference engines don't do this.

 

Honestly instead of fixing that engine either buy a new one or a used one and call it a day. Trust me it will be cheaper. Just buy a long block and swap all the accessories over.

 

I hate ******** shops .

 

I read that first line about the retention clip and almost started crying, knowing what was probably going to come next. That design is so poor (in that it is way too easy to throw that part away along with the filter) that a non-safety related recall should have been issued.

Val

 

There is only one option, you must fix the car. Anything else is a loss. If you have no other options, enter into an agreement with Way to fix the car and sell it, allowing him to take is costs from the sale price.

Any other option will leave you with much less money. In other words if you don't fix it and sell it, someone else will. Whoever does this makes money.

 

I see what you are saying about them being two seperate issues, however, it seems much to coincidental that the timing chain breaks right after his mechanic reassembled the car. No?

It has been suggested to me that it is possible that the mechanic used a wooden wedge to support the timing chain when doing his work which could possibly have caused the chain to jump a notch or two. Ever hear of this?

 

No way to know, just as Way says......he's the expert here, I would listen to him. I think you're looking for support to get someone to pay for what happened and you may actually be right in all your suppositions, but how do you prove them? I sympathise with your situation, but there's no good way out that I can see except fixing your car properly and then driving it as long as you can to get your money back out of it.

[rant on]

I love how people want the mfr to "recall" a car just because they aren't smart enough or experienced enough to do a stupid oil change without blowing up their engine because they didn't put it back together right or lost a key part.

That comment is not directed at anyone in particular, but there have been a LOT of posts on this forum of people who tried to do work on their car and screwed it up and then try to blame the mfr somehow. Something's wrong with the oil pan or the drain plug because they can't get it out with a pair of pliers and round it off and it costs them an arm and a leg to get it fixed after they screwed it up. Must be a manufacturing or design defect.

Something's wrong with these cheap axles MINI uses , after they've dropped the suspension 2". Must be a manufacturing or design defect.

Something's wrong with the way they build these cars after I put a giant amp in and my battery keeps going dead, or the car burns to the ground because they didn't put a fuse in the circuit and wired it directly to the battery. Must be a design or manufacturing defect.

"it's a stupid design" or "they shouldn't have made it that way"......

I have seen my share of difficult to work on cars over the years, but that just means you have to pay attention.

Everyone wants the cheap and easy shortcut today, plug and play - and no one wants to do the work necessary to get a proper job. You get what you pay for, and if it's you doing the work and screw it up, you only have one guy to blame, and it sure isn't the mfr.

It takes years of hard work and study to be good at anything. Cars are complcated, complex machines, not toys. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who can help you till you do - or pay someone who has invested the time, money and energy to learn how to do the work right. Like Way...

[rant off]

 

I completely agree. I thought that I was going the right route by finding someone that I thought was an expert. Obviously in hindsight I wish I would have taken it the 2 hrs south to Way in the first place. And I completly agree that neglect is no excuse for berating the design. I try to do things the RIGHT way over the cheap way. Unfortunatly I took it to the wrong guy...

 

MiniDave- I see your point about recalls. This spring thing just comes off of the canister and sticks to the filter too easily. I'm going to maintain that MINI should have done something about the problem, even something simple as calling the cars back in to put a foil sticker on the canister with drawings and text to the effect of "Don't toss the plastic spring thing". This isn't a problem after a modification has been done, this is basic maintenance. An '02 for example is now 10 years old. Well out of warranty and somewhat affordable, there is a high probability that these things are showing up at the Quick Lube places where they don't have the expertise not to throw away the spring. In a situation like that, a sticker on the canister might help to save the engine.

We don't know if the OP changed their own oil and tossed the plastic spring thing, if another shop tossed it or if it had been tossed previously before the OP got it. This whole thing might have started with a previous oil change.

Val

 

The plastic piece wasn't there the very first time I changed the oil which was shortly after recieving the car from my father-in-law who was the first owner. Seeing as how he works at pepboys I have a bad feeling that he had one of the guys there change the oil and it went missing in the process. Just strange that it didn't exhibit strange behavior until after I changed the oil carefully.

 

What I think really happened, but can't prove is that the shop somehow turned the engine over with the chain disconnected from the cam, this got it bound up and cracked the oil pump around the lower timing gear. That intern causes little to no oil pressure allowing the chain to jump off the upper cam sprocket, and causing the issue.
Why do I think that is what happened, had a guy accidently turn over an engine without a head on it, didn't even make a full revolution and it broke the oil pump. I never started this car, but saw the aftermath and had to fix it out of my pocket.

2nd option of what could have happened would have to be with the oil filter missing the plastic part and low pressure on the chain tensioner allowing it to jump.

I think not only is it stupid, it's also neglect that the shop didn't make the customer buy the plastic housing for the filter or make a HUGE NOTE ON THE REPAIR ORDER telling the customer it was missing and needs replaced not liable for damage from it missing. Once they changed the oil and didn't put the filter back together right they became responsible. It's not right without it, and the oil light was on. How do they know the customer won't claim it was there and blame them for everything. If they didn't note it they can't prove it was like that before. This is how I have to think of things all the time, Cover Your Azz.

I love and hate shops like this. Love em cause I'll always been in business with guys doing this. Hate em cause it makes people not trust mechanics like us.