Which is best for an OldCoot?
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Apex, NC
You can always look at the dealers inventory via their web sites, and then try to do some negotiation over the phone. Saves some drive time up front. If a dealer has one on the lot I would think you'd be able to work something out. I'd call around to various dealers like Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Knoxville.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
Isn't there a dealer in Asheville? I know there's a BMW dealer right there near the airport...
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Theres Flow Mini in Greensboro and Raleigh and Hendricks in Charlotte. I was surprised there was not one in Asheville. Bought mine at Hendricks and took about 15 minutes for them to agree to my price. I cannot comment on their service department though. 3500 Miles and well, nothings gone wrong. No rattles, nothing.
As far as auto vs manual, one big advantage of a manual , less likely to get stolen. Typical car thief can't drive a manual
As far as auto vs manual, one big advantage of a manual , less likely to get stolen. Typical car thief can't drive a manual
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Isn't there a dealer in Asheville? I know there's a BMW dealer right there near the airport...
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
I wanted to buy a BMW motorcycle several months ago, and ended up buying a great Suzuki instead. One simple reason: the attitudes of the BMW sales managers. (If the sales manager is that bad, what will the service manager be like after the sale? -- I don't want to find out.)
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC suburbs
Isn't there a dealer in Asheville? I know there's a BMW dealer right there near the airport...
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
(My daughter lives in H'ville. Small world!)
You guys are dreaming if you think waving a check in their face has any value - if the salemanager could make the deal he would have. Obviously, the problem is the trade in, old coot thinks it's worth a lot more than the dealer does. You could try taking the trade out of the deal and selling it yourself, or take it around to the Suzuki dealer and asking them what they'd buy it for outright - not as a trade in - that will tell you what the real value of the car is.
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
On top of that, the value of a trade in does not go up over time - it only goes down. Your trade will not be worth more in a couple of months....
Like I said, if you really want to know what your car is worth, take it to the Suxuki dealer and ask them to buy it straight up, then go negotiate with the MINI dealer. As to $2K off, maybe on a leftover 2010, doubtful on a new 2011.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
Well, once again - I was in the biz for 30 years. Glimpses are one thing, I lived it 7 days a week, 18 hours a day and I worked both the new and used sides of the aisle during that time. The first place I called for a trade value on a car we didn't sell was the closest dealer for that brand. My thinking is they know more about the value of their car than anyone else. Doesn't mean I couldn't or didn't get higher quotes from a wholesaler if he had a place to go with a particular car. More times than not, the dealer was the high buyer on a car tho....
Likewise, if someone wanted to know what a Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Audi or a number of other cars that we handled was worth, we got the first call.
I think what you're saying is that Car Max offered you more for your car than the MINI dealer did? Entirely possible, and in fact taking the Suzuki to Car Max and getting a wholesale price from them might be a good idea too. Bottom line, you now know what your car is worth in hard money. You can then work your deal from there. My experience with Car Max was different, I took a clean no excuses '03 Cooper S JCW to them and got offered $6k less than what I ultimately sold it for a year later. (I decided if that's all it's worth I'd just keep it) others have done better, I know a few who have, but the only way to find out is to do the legwork.
There are no real secrets in the car bidness. Cost for anything can be found easily online - but that only tells part of the story. Like I said, any car is worth what someone will pay for it, no more. True of the new car as well as the trade in.
Likewise, if someone wanted to know what a Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Audi or a number of other cars that we handled was worth, we got the first call.
I think what you're saying is that Car Max offered you more for your car than the MINI dealer did? Entirely possible, and in fact taking the Suzuki to Car Max and getting a wholesale price from them might be a good idea too. Bottom line, you now know what your car is worth in hard money. You can then work your deal from there. My experience with Car Max was different, I took a clean no excuses '03 Cooper S JCW to them and got offered $6k less than what I ultimately sold it for a year later. (I decided if that's all it's worth I'd just keep it) others have done better, I know a few who have, but the only way to find out is to do the legwork.
There are no real secrets in the car bidness. Cost for anything can be found easily online - but that only tells part of the story. Like I said, any car is worth what someone will pay for it, no more. True of the new car as well as the trade in.
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Near Toronto, Canada
Naw I'm not sure which one of us chickened out first. I did a lot of reading though, you know, Playboy, Hustler, etc. Picked up a lot of tips. Finally, when I was 17 I got lucky. I've had a blessed life ever since.
Buck
Buck
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC suburbs
Well, once again - I was in the biz for 30 years. Glimpses are one thing, I lived it 7 days a week, 18 hours a day and I worked both the new and used sides of the aisle during that time. The first place I called for a trade value on a car we didn't sell was the closest dealer for that brand. My thinking is they know more about the value of their car than anyone else. Doesn't mean I couldn't or didn't get higher quotes from a wholesaler if he had a place to go with a particular car. More times than not, the dealer was the high buyer on a car tho....
Likewise, if someone wanted to know what a Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Audi or a number of other cars that we handled was worth, we got the first call.
I think what you're saying is that Car Max offered you more for your car than the MINI dealer did? Entirely possible, and in fact taking the Suzuki to Car Max and getting a wholesale price from them might be a good idea too. Bottom line, you now know what your car is worth in hard money. You can then work your deal from there. My experience with Car Max was different, I took a clean no excuses '03 Cooper S JCW to them and got offered $6k less than what I ultimately sold it for a year later. (I decided if that's all it's worth I'd just keep it) others have done better, I know a few who have, but the only way to find out is to do the legwork.
There are no real secrets in the car bidness. Cost for anything can be found easily online - but that only tells part of the story. Like I said, any car is worth what someone will pay for it, no more. True of the new car as well as the trade in.
Likewise, if someone wanted to know what a Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Audi or a number of other cars that we handled was worth, we got the first call.
I think what you're saying is that Car Max offered you more for your car than the MINI dealer did? Entirely possible, and in fact taking the Suzuki to Car Max and getting a wholesale price from them might be a good idea too. Bottom line, you now know what your car is worth in hard money. You can then work your deal from there. My experience with Car Max was different, I took a clean no excuses '03 Cooper S JCW to them and got offered $6k less than what I ultimately sold it for a year later. (I decided if that's all it's worth I'd just keep it) others have done better, I know a few who have, but the only way to find out is to do the legwork.
There are no real secrets in the car bidness. Cost for anything can be found easily online - but that only tells part of the story. Like I said, any car is worth what someone will pay for it, no more. True of the new car as well as the trade in.
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 44
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
Extensively Experienced
As a fellow extensively experienced driver Id have to say that after owning a Suzuki you'll love any Mini 
! Your son may be right about the S, it does have a lot more umph and in combo with the handling makes the car a hoot! There are pluses and minuses to both the last generation Mini and the current Mini. The older Mini doesn't have the clown speedometer and the seats are a bit better than on the new Mini. I prefer the old supercharged engine to the new turbo engine because I HATE turbo lag and I think it has a nicer sound. On the other hand, Minis are expensive to repair and a newer Mini won't need as many repairs. The turbo engine is simpler than the supercharged engine - less parts, less problems. Getrag manual transmissions have a justifiably bad name - newer is better. The auto transmissions seem to hold up well. The biggest challenge with used Minis is finding one that someone didn't drive the snot out of. Its a performance machine and people tend to drive em hard. You should get the engine checked on a used Mini even if it has only 40K miles on it. Good luck on your search!
! Your son may be right about the S, it does have a lot more umph and in combo with the handling makes the car a hoot! There are pluses and minuses to both the last generation Mini and the current Mini. The older Mini doesn't have the clown speedometer and the seats are a bit better than on the new Mini. I prefer the old supercharged engine to the new turbo engine because I HATE turbo lag and I think it has a nicer sound. On the other hand, Minis are expensive to repair and a newer Mini won't need as many repairs. The turbo engine is simpler than the supercharged engine - less parts, less problems. Getrag manual transmissions have a justifiably bad name - newer is better. The auto transmissions seem to hold up well. The biggest challenge with used Minis is finding one that someone didn't drive the snot out of. Its a performance machine and people tend to drive em hard. You should get the engine checked on a used Mini even if it has only 40K miles on it. Good luck on your search!
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 44
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
I have to agree with the posts about mini dealers not dealing. They don't need to so why should they? They have a product lots of peole want so they don't discount it at all. They also tend to give lousy trade in prices. I took a mint 2005 BMWz04 to the dealer as a trade in and he quoted me the lowest price from KBB and never even looked at the cars condition even though it was sitting outside his show room. I was more than a bit annoyed! Unfortunately he is the only dealer within 50 miles.
I
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
Here's the thing tho folks, Edmunds does not buy and sell cars, neither does KBB or NADA or any other of the reporting services, they simply take an average of auction sales results, and there may not be enough sales of a particular car to get an really accurate idea of it's value. Quoting one of these guys as the true arbiter of value is a waste of time, all they are is an snapshot indicator of the trend.....as a 30 year sales manager for high end European cars store I used to jokingly say when someone told me Kelly Blue Book said their car was worth $XXX, "fine, go sell it to them."
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
Yep......I've seen it and heard it too.
Everybody plays the game. When I was managing a Porsche+Audi store, I had a customer come in and tell me that he would pay this $ amount and not a penny more for that car right there. I went into the office to check the cost, came back and shook his hand and said he had a deal. Know what? he was pissed off! I gave him exactly what he insisted on and he was convinced that he could have gotten it cheaper! Wouldn't have mattered if I'd sold it to him for $1000 under cost, he was convinced he left money on the table.....
You can't win!
If you don't like the trade offer, you can always sell the car yourself. That way you'll maximize your value.
Then if you pay sticker for the car, everybody's happy, right?
Nope.
Nobody's happy. Everybody out there is convinced someone else got a better deal.
Now you know why I'm not in the car bidness anymore.......
Everybody plays the game. When I was managing a Porsche+Audi store, I had a customer come in and tell me that he would pay this $ amount and not a penny more for that car right there. I went into the office to check the cost, came back and shook his hand and said he had a deal. Know what? he was pissed off! I gave him exactly what he insisted on and he was convinced that he could have gotten it cheaper! Wouldn't have mattered if I'd sold it to him for $1000 under cost, he was convinced he left money on the table.....
You can't win!
If you don't like the trade offer, you can always sell the car yourself. That way you'll maximize your value.
Then if you pay sticker for the car, everybody's happy, right?
Nope.
Nobody's happy. Everybody out there is convinced someone else got a better deal.
Now you know why I'm not in the car bidness anymore.......
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Near Toronto, Canada
When I was in sales I always sold at the price things were. I did not give anyone a discount - the price is the price. I didn't want my customers to discover that one guy got a better deal than the next guy. I even sold to family at the full cost. Besides, my commissions were based on the selling price and it cost ME money to give someone I didn't even know a "deal".
Buck
Buck
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
When I was in sales I always sold at the price things were. I did not give anyone a discount - the price is the price. I didn't want my customers to discover that one guy got a better deal than the next guy. I even sold to family at the full cost. Besides, my commissions were based on the selling price and it cost ME money to give someone I didn't even know a "deal".
Buck
Buck
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,384
Likes: 0
From: LI, NY
I bought my 05 Cooper new. Drove an S and then a Cooper, and bought a Cooper. Ordered it just the way I wanted it. Ive never had a car this long and still loved it like I do this one.
I dont like automatics, and I dont like the R56s.
But, our opionions are just that - opinions. Like so many others, I will say drive them for yourself.
If you want a first gen R50, then go with an 05 or 06 to avoid the Midlands manual trans which is significantly inferior to the later Getrag.
I dont like automatics, and I dont like the R56s.
But, our opionions are just that - opinions. Like so many others, I will say drive them for yourself.
If you want a first gen R50, then go with an 05 or 06 to avoid the Midlands manual trans which is significantly inferior to the later Getrag.
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Near Toronto, Canada
Tough sell
I sold a lot of things in my time. Office supplies, dictating equipment, vacuum cleaners, very expensive lighting. I have to admit that my boss forced me to discount the office supplies, and the company had a program in place for the expensive lights, and when I sold the vacuums I was really green and gave away my whole commission a couple times, but that hardened me so that when I started selling centralized dictating systems and accessories, I did so without discounting a penny. I was tired of losing money just because the company or bosses were afraid to lose a sale because of price. My biggest bonus to my customers was ME! If they went to the competition because of price, they would lose me. Some did go for price and several of those came back to me because I provided service for their dollar and realized the value in paying full price. Of course I had to make good on my promises to them, but I wouldn't make promises I couldn't keep.
Buck
Buck