A little off-topic, but the answer is two-fold. The Michelins on the Odyssey Touring are PAX tires. They require special wheels and are an odd size. You can't just put other tires on the wheels. So, when it came time to put on new tires ('bout 18 mos) the dealer wasn't equipped to break down the tires, so, they stocked wheels and tires and did a swap. I went back to look at a receipt ($1800 was stuck in my head) and I was wrong it was $1200 per axle. We did that a couple of times as Honda would not support any other wheel and tire combo on the Odyssey. But, eventually another tire shop got the machine and the cost dropped to about $600 per axle. Once our local dealership got their machine, I was able to get them to match prices. But, that was one set of tires ago. The other solution is to trade out the PAX wheels and tires for others. Lots of Ody drivers have done this. The problem with that was that Honda wouldn't take responsibility for alignment issues, TPMS issues, brakes or suspension problems if you didn't have the "supported" configuration (not at least until they were sued for all of this). So, we've stuck with PAX. Out of warranty now so it won't matter too much. I have been looking at replacement wheels and tires for the Honda.

See? Just goes to show ya. There's always something to whine about where cars are concerned.

Motor on!

 

A parent company based on British soil...

 

It's so true these days - I've been to a LOT of car forums. Ford, Mazda, Honda, Mini in my search for the "perfect trouble-free" car. And let me tell you - they don't exist! Every car I've looked at has horror stories about one aspect or another, that's just how automobiles are. "I really like X, but I'm worried about X." This statement goes for every car on the market. I tried to play it safe with a Honda and now I'm bored out of my mind. Don't talk yourself out of a car you really like because you hear a thread of awful tales on a forum. Like everyone says, a lot of people start posting because of a problem. I started forum surfing when I had a problem with my Honda, which led me to look at other forums.

 

By that method of thinking, the Nissan GTR is the ultimate culmination of the American sports car, then?

 

By that logic, there are very few British cars left, but I would argue that a Jaguar and a Rover are still very, very British, not Indian, as is a Lotus British, not Malaysian. A Lamborghini is still very, very Italian too, but it's owned by Audi.

It's pretty darned hard to pigeonhole cars these days as British, Italian, German, American, etc... when Toyotas are built in Kentucky, Mercedes are built in Alabama, Malaysian-owned sports cars are made in Great Britain, Dodge trucks are made in Mexico and Chrysler is owned by the Italians. Would you consider the Z4 German or American?

 

The reason why there are so many issues with MINIs is because most people who are here will want help about the issues they may have. I haven't really seen many people talking about how they've done 400k problem free miles like the guy from WI.

That being said, I just got an 07 S with extended maintenance and warranty that expires in May 2011. Car has some little ticking sounds from it sometimes and it will drop the revs on cold idle, but other than that it's great! Everything's been replaced and its been owned by an enthusiast.

Just try not to worry, get one with extensive maintenance record and maybe something 08 and up. I do think getting an 03/2007 car was a slight mistake but I got a good deal on it!

Basic maintenance is a must. Frequent oil changes especially that it's a turbo engine, injector cleaner every now and then, spark plugs, belts and hoses inspections should keep it in tip top shape! And remember! Redline a day keeps the carbon a day :P

 

By what logic? I assume that the GTR has been, and continues to be, designed in Japan. My point was that the MINI is much more German than British. The Germans would never tolerate what has often been passed off as British cars (and I should know as I used to own a Lotus). I believe that the soul and character of a car is determined by how it was designed, rather than where it was built. While it is true that bad assembly can make a good car bad, even good assembly can't transcend a poor design.

 

Where was it designed? Every car company has their way of doing things. You have to look at who designed it or at least where the design philosophy came from. Where it's built has very little bearing.

 

OK. With that logic, would you consider the first-generation Miata American or Japanese?

 

I can't say. I've never driven one, ridden in one, sat in one or studied its history. Therefore, I have no answer.

 

 

The new MINI was originally designed by Rover in England. BMW then stepped in and took over. Although BMW is a German company, the car is built in England and utilizes some mediocre parts, ie. clutch components. The MINI is a jolly old British car which actually adds to the charm!!

 

I can agree with this to a point. My next car is going to be a 2012 Buick Regal GS. What does this mean? It's a rebadged Opel Insignia. Designed in Germany and actually the first batch are built in Germany. So does this make it an American car?

 

Not buying that. What you're implying is that the effect of BMW was minimal. No Way. MINIs feel more like BMWs than anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINI

"The car, whose first generation was designed by Frank Stephenson,[7] draws inspiration from the original Mini, which was manufactured by the British Motor Corporation and its successors from 1959 to 2000. The name of the car's brand, MINI, is all-capitalised to distinguish it from its predecessor.[8] Development of the first generation had been done between 1995 and 2001 by Rover Group in Gaydon, United Kingdom AND BMW AG in Munich, Germany. During this development phase, there was continual contention between the two design groups, especially concerning the positioning of the car; Rover wanted a straight economy car, whilst BMW supported a small, sporting car. Ultimately, BMW prevailed, and in 1999, they assumed control over the entire project following the departure of BMW's CEO, Bernd Pischetsrieder.[9] When BMW divested itself of Rover in 2000, BMW elected to retain the Mini project, and to move the planned production site of the car from Rover's Longbridge plant,[9] to BMW's Oxford plant in Cowley, Oxford, United Kingdom."

 

No.

 

Japanese parent company, based in Japan. That makes it Japanese by your original statement. Designed in the United States by primarily Americans. That makes it American by your second statement. Built in Hiroshima. That doesn't matter by your later statements. What in the world does driving one or riding in one have to do with it?

 

For some cars, it's not a simple matter to establish its conceptual origins. You have to look at what the company and designers were trying to do. The Miata is very unlike the majority of US cars. It is in a segment that has not usually been very successful here (small 2 seat roadster). That means that there isn't much of a precedent. Also, remember that the conceptual basis of the Miata was the original Lotus Elan. Clearly nothing US about that car. Finally, parent companies have to approve of what goes out the door. They are not going to OK something that is contrary to their philosophy about their products.

In my opinion, the Miata is not a US car. It is more of a Japanese car than anything else.

Experiencing a car first hand can be useful. It used to be that cars had a particular character, as a function of the company and where the company was from. German cars were very solid and finely engineered, but often a bit stodgy. French cars were interesting, but quirky. British cars had lots of character, but were often suspect technologically. Italian cars were often great looking and great performing, but frequently unreliable. Etc., etc... Historically these were the generalizations that one could apply. However, what folks realized is that they had to overcome these negatives in order to stay competitive, particularly in the global marketplace.

 

OK.

Of course, never mind the fact that it was more based on Lotus cars than anything else...

 

I said that already. But also remember that Mazda didn't do things like designing flip up headlights that failed closed or installed the power window motors before the inner fiberglass panel was bonded to the outer. What this meant was that you had to saw a larger hole in the inner door panel in order to replace the motor. Now, I am making an assumption that the Elan suffered from the same issues that my +2S did.

Basically I think Mazda liked the packaging and balance of the Elan, but that was about it. It would up as a much heavier steel unibody car with a steel body shell. And, the way it turned out, each succeeding generation (up to 4 or 5 now?) compromised the original concept more and more.

 

So none of your qualifications before really determine a car's provenance? It's a gut feeling? I can dig it. The Mini is German or it's British. It just depends on what you want to call it, apparently.

 

I too thought long and hard before buying a Mini because of lower reliability ratings than cars such as the Miata. I used to own a Miata and found that it just felt insubstantial, especially on the freeway. But I went and checked them out again when I was shopping for a new car. The 2010's are much improved over the model I owned but it still felt cheap inside and its a car that MUST be driven with the top down to really enjoy.
I went back to the Mini dealership, felt how substantial the door felt when I closed it, how great the leather seats felt, and most importantly how much fun it was to drive.
Will it be more expensive to maintain than the Miata? I'm sure it will, just like Bmws are more expensive (after the free maintenance expires) than most of its Japanese counterparts. But I buy a car because of the way it looks, drives and makes me feel. I know that in the long run any car is a depreciating asset and expensive to own- so just go with what makes you smile every time you see it in the morning.

 

You summed up my experience and feelings perfectly!! I, too, owned a Miata, a beautiful 2000SE with metallic burgundy paint, beige leather interior. A lovely car to look at but nowhere near as fun to drive as my '04 Cooper S. I also own a '75 VW Scirocco that I bought brand new and the MINI reminds me of a grown up version of the old Roc with much more sophistication.

Eric

 

Fatherdeth,
Take it from a jolly old Brit, you said it perfectly !!

 

All I know is like most have said... buying a used car is a crapshoot... so hopefully you do well in Vegas. I've had incredible luck with cars through the years. Matter of fact I still have my very first car in my driveway (though I have had and currently have other vehicles)... a '98 plymouth Neon with 150k miles on it. I bought her used with 30k. Everyone says how unreliable those are and how I would only get 90k miles before it blew a head or the whole engine blew up. I didn't do a single piece of non routine maintenance on her (lol and I wasn't even that great at doing that since I was a stupid 16 year old) until 136k when I had to replace the distributor cap. Still on the original clutch and everything.

I'm planning on buying an 08 Mini s with a little under 40k on it and hope I have the same luck. Really that's all you can do. Buy a car you love and roll with it.