Uhhh, tell that to the Classic Mini owners. The owners, who, after a long shot finally accepted the fact that BMW bought the rights to the name. Then started sending their lawyers around jolly old England telling any mechanic specializing in Mini repair that if they didn't drop the word Mini from their business, they'd be hit with a lawsuit. The capitalization is only to differ "Classics" and "BMW" sourced cars.

And, the New Beetle was just a gimmic car anyway. I have to question a car that has a flower vase on the dash as "standard equipment." The car was just something for the public to swoon over. It, like the MINI lost all of the essentials of the original. The MINI, however at least was built on its own platform and was well engineered. So well was the engineering that there was always a problem arising from some system within the car. Never had these problems with any of my Japanese econo boxes, but again, they were tin cans with an engine and tranny mounted to it. Nothing spectacular by no means. We'll see a company like Scion go out before MINI will. BMW has invested wayyyy too much money in the brand to think about discontinuing it. I will say that they need to step back up to the drawing board. They messed up with the second gens and I'll go so far as to say they messed up with the first gens. If they combined the chassis of the first gen and the engine of the second gen, I'd say this would be a sweet car.

 

Mine Is Niffty Indeed

Mark

 

This thread is going to end badly. Ah well!


While I understand the Mini (or MINI) has it's problems, I just want to chime in as an old New Beetle owner that it's still leaps and bounds behind of the Mini in build quality. I guess that's what I was trying to explain by my complaint list before. Everything on the New Beetle is cheap. Parts may break on the MINI, but it's not really the same. There's a difference between having a few "problem areas to worry about" and having a whole CAR to worry about. The New Beetle was seriously a ticking time bomb, and I hated it after the first few months. Everything was cheaply produced, cheaply assembled (HEY MEXICO!) and rattled and creaked to the point that makes MINI owner's complaints seem nit picky. In fact, the interior noise you guys complain about makes me laugh. It's not even on the same map as what the New Beetle produces after a few months/few years. The Beetle is loose as well, where the Mini feels tight, like.. well.. a BMW. The steering wheel feels very similar in response and construction to our old 3 series.

The New Beetle was hurridly put out to market and was nothing but a Golf with a new body and interior (and quite ugly at that). Besides doing decently in the snow, it had nearly zero performance value and was extremely top heavy compared to the MINI. I can safely say, it was the worst money I ever spent in my life.. no matter the amount, it still sickens me I paid for that thing.


Once again, both are probably going no where, but the Beetle would go YEARS before the MINI would if either had to go first, that's for certain.

 

Modern paint systems don't fade like they did in the 80's. Just because a car is waxed "regularly", doesn't mean the color won't "change". Btw, regularly for car waxes is every 4 to 6 months depending on whether it lives outdoors or in a garage.

As far as what does affect color...paint neglect is the number one factor. Bonded contaminants and scratched clearcoat "swirls", will make the paint look different. Paint can look obviously worse in 6 months, let alone 5 years? A good paint polisher can do wonders for paint.

 

Have you ever seen a 5 year old late 90's/early 2000's Hyundai or Dodge Neon? That's what my Beetle looked like, minus the clear coat peel. That isn't normal, I don't care what you say. I understand paint ages, and the clear coat gets wear. I'm not expecting show room quality. But that car, in every respect, was literally the cheapest POS I've ever owned. My friend's Kia makes the Beetle look like trash, and the fact a Kia is outclassing a Volks makes me sick.

If you guys don't agree with me, there's nothing I can honestly say past all this before going into a long rant that will make you guys believe me. But if you guys think the New Beetle is a worthy car to buy, I invite you to buy one. Just don't come crying back to me in 6 months.

PS: I waxed it twice a year as it was an outdoor car (didn't have the garage space then as we only had a one car garage that the 3 series lived in).

 

Please, don't trot out this tired old rant. VW's Puebla plant has consistently received high internal QC scores, exceeding the home plant in Wolfsburg. It doesn't matter whether the guys/gals on the line are eating burritos or wiener schnitzel. I've owned 2 Puebla-produced VWs and wouldn't hesitate to own another.. both were reliable, well-built, trouble-free cars. My GF currently owns a Jetta TDI out of Puebla, and it too is solid.

I don't doubt that you had a bad New Beetle, but don't condemn everything coming out of the country that produced it because of your bad luck.

 

I hope MINI sticks around for a while.

I love how MINI has a huge following but at the same time, I kinda wish they weren't as popular or "fadish" so it was viewed more of an icon. I see too many people that drive MINIs that aren't enthusiast. They were just looking for something cheap and cute...

 

Amen!!!!

 

A Mini rep at Mini takes the states was telling me he mini doesn't want to be the entry model BMW they want to keep us in mini.

I don't get the point of Scion. Scion basically caused Toyota to loose me as a customer. My 92 Celica made me a Toyota Loyalist. If I had been looking for a family car and not a Fun car I would have bought a Camry or something without looking at anything else. Unfortunately for Toyota I still wanted a Fun Car. They had just killed off all their "fun" cars and add Scion. The TC couldn't compete with my Celica on handling (even with the power steering out in the Celica).

 

Well as you know, TC stands for Toyota Celica. Toyota ruined it for me. My wife's 7th gen Celica is not the most powerful car, but the chassis and handling aren't to be messed with. While the car was definitely designed with females in mind, it sure was a better car than the TC. Scion is just another one of those gimmic groups. Tell a bunch of teenagers that they can get LED tailpipes and underdash lights from the factory and see how fast they come running. Toyota is definitely slipping. MINI will be around for a while.

 

Yes and no. Believe it or not, 3 years ago when we were looking for a new car our choices came down to the MINI or Honda Element. Practicality won the day, but if MINI had an suv then I'm pretty sure we'd be driving one. I'm glad they didn't, we now have the Element for hauling and a MINI for fun, but for some families the SUV may hit the sweet spot between practical and fun.

Now when they come out with a MINIvan, consider the shark to be jumped.

 

As to the SUV, there are admittedly times now and again where it would serve me well to have the room, ground clearance, etc. Also, many of my friends have commented that they would get a MINI if it had just a bit more room, 4 doors, OH WAIT, now one does! That having been said, I won't be trading in MY favorite driving machine anytime soon. It will be nice though to see more MINIs on the road, even if they are a bit chunkier.

Now for the MINI vs. VW line. I also own a '99 beetle, which I bought used for my middle daughter to drive. It has 170k miles on it, and despite her best efforts to kill it she hasn't succeeded *knocks vigorously on the nearest wood*. My MINI has 32k miles on it so it is really apples and oranges to compare the two on mechanical/reliability. But, I can say that on observation of fit, finish, body quality, design, handling, comfort, MINI definitely has the edge.

 

I don't know much about the Mini SUV concept but I don't consider the Element an SUV. It doesn't really have an off-road oriented drive train or suspension which allows a much more practical interior layout. My parents have had a HRR and a PT Cruiser and the little tall wagon cars like that are great (I don't like the term crossover it's too ambiguous)

 

I also get tired of people blaming Mexico for VWs problems when the root cause lies in the Old Country.

Nissan doesn't seem to have any difficulty qc-ing their Mexican assembled Sentras. My son's 2000 with 200k is still tight as a drum.

 

Intersting thread to read here. I happen to own an '04 New Beetle (Convertible, turbo/GLS) and an 09 MCS. My spouse drives an '05 350Z (enthusiast edition). I guess we are lucky and I'm looking for a piece of wood to knock on when I say this but over the past year, we've got a grand total of 1 dealership/repair shop visit for all three cars. Two of them (MCS and 350Z) are daily drivers when the weather is good and the VW replaces the Z in the winter time.

I've had the VW out in the mountains and I've beat up on a few cars and got a black eye from others. It won't hang with the MINI or the Z though.

I drove the VW from L.A. to New Orleans and it was a comfortable drive at 31mpg (averaging 75mph).

We drove the Z to/from D.C. and New Orleans last fall and it wasn't an "uncomfortable" trip but I won't volunteer to do that again. You don't get into the Z - you "put it on".

The MINI has been on one 6 hour road trip that I did by myself and the Dragon will be the next long drive. It's not a bad ride for that long.

As far as longevity and "watering it down", look at the Mini. How many combinations were there? Panel trucks, the Moke and what else? We've got to face it, intermediate SUV's sell and with gas prices creeping back up, they will continue to sell.

It appears to me that BMW is tyring to reach out to buyers that don't want and M3 or an X5 or something, they are trying to expand their customer base.

Craig

 

My friend's mother-in-law had a beetle burn to the ground and apparently that's not all that uncommon. I had a rental beetle somewhat recently with the 5cylinder and as emabarassed as I was to drive around in a lime green beetle with no gf around it actually drove pretty nice. Decent handling in my mind and decent power/weight according to the butt dyno.

I was actually considering a tdi golf instead of the clubman but fun won out over the golf

 

I can't believe no one brought this up regarding mini vs beetle.

But more importantly, I can't believe I didn't think of it either!

MINI will do fine, especially in the area where i live. I see anywhere from 2-10 minis a day just from normal driving. Not to mention that new Mini Coupe is just flat out SEXY and the Countryman is surprisingly cool looking.

 

I believe MINI will continue to have a dedicated following, and more people will come on board when they realize what they offer in terms of performance, handling, features, and good gas mileage. To some, it's the "cute" factor. To some, it's the uniqueness The rising cost of living and the rising price of gas will play into this. Even though the original Mini was only sold in America between 1960 and 1967, it continued to thrive in the UK and Europe abroad. Even the Queen of England had one.

As I have told many others... it's not just owning a MINI. It's having the MINI experience.

 

That's really too bad about your NB. I think yours was built by drunks at both ends (Germany and Mexico)...

My is a '01 1.8T (1.0 bar chip) with 168k on the clock.

What's been done outside the usual oil/filters/fluids/plugs/wipers...

- Brakes: 1 set of rotors / 1 front set of pads / 2 rear sets of pads / 3 fluid flushes
- 3 sets of tires / 1 alignment
- 1 timing belt / h20 pump / tensioner / thermostat / coolant
- 2 A/C belts
- 3 cabin air filters
- 1 cam chain tensioner / valve cover gasket set
- 2 batteries
- 1 set of Bilstein HD dampers
- 1 diverter valve
- 2 MAF sensors (1 spare)
- 1 coolant temp sensor
- 3 sets of ATF & filter
- 1 CV boot
- 2 headlight bulbs, 1 fog light bulb
- 1 hood strut / 2 trunk struts
- a few air / vacuum hoses
- 1 set of coilpacks and MAF sensor were replaced under warranty/recall.

At 168k, I've spent $5756 on maintenance/repair and tools. I do the maintenance myself. The only time I had trouble was when one of the coil pack failed. The cam chain tensioner failure made a tapping noise only at idle but didn't affect engine performance. I'm keeping the car as long as I can. It's been all over California and some parts of Oregon and Nevada. I take the car on long camping trips to 5000-8000 ft every summer with ambient temps at 90*-100*F.

As for my '06 MCSc with only 33k, it's already had about $2200 of repair. Good thing they were done under warranty. Now there's sooty residue near the water pump drive and the crank pulley. The dealer has put dye in the motor oil to figure out where the leaks are coming from. The strut towers are slowly mushrooming. Will see how the Mini fare in the long run. Reading this board, I'm expecting a high probability of replacing the following expensive items before 150k: Supercharger, motor mount, LCA bushings, P/S pump & fan, radiator fan. The equivalent parts on the NB are still original and working with the exception of the bushings, which will need replacing soon.

Gas mileage using the same route: NB (4sp Auto) 24.75-25.25 MPG / MCSc (6sp) 25.75-26.75 MPG... not a big difference considering the Mini is a manual and ~300 lbs lighter.

I like both cars for different reasons. The Mini is definitely a driver's car right out of the box. The Mini feels fast due to its light weight, shorter wheel base and wheel placement at each corner. But the stock Beetle (1.8T) is only 2-3/10th of a second behind but does feel slower due to its weight. The 1.8 turbocharged engine can be extensively modified... 300+ HP. You'll be surprised what a set of Bilstein or Koni dampers and Shine springs can do to handling. The NB is now an old warrior and the Mini a spring Ninja.

 

The NB is just one model for VW. Believe it or not, NB fans are very conservative when it comes to styling changes. What they want to see is the NB on a new platform (ie Mk6) and newer engine options to justify the price.

As for Mini, I think BMW has no choice but to expand the Mini product line. It'd be interesting to see year-over-year sales figures for the Mini... if it trends the same way as the NB.

 

Cadenza: that black sooty stuff by your waterpump could be your supercharger. The gear that connects from the s/c to the waterpump couldve grinded down from low s/c oil. I hope it's still under warranty.

 

minirooferS - the SA and tech said that it's just blow-by and it's normal to have an oil pan (bottom and front side) coated with oil and residue at 33k. (And I just fell off a tree yesterday!) They don't think it's from the PTO of the S/C and won't touch it unless it's totally kaputt. Mini's policy is the S/C is maintenance-free.

So far they've only agreed to put dye in the oil and see what happens after 1500 miles. Whatever they can figure out then, they will fix. The powertrain warranty is over but the S/C is covered by California Emission Warranty to 7yrs/70k. We will see.

 

It could be the timing chain seal. I've heard of this being an uncommon to rare issue. I do have a dark stain around the back/bottom of the engine in my '06 MCS (corner behind the engine mount), but I do not believe I am leaking oil.

I did replace the oil pan gasket in my old '02 MCS. It had been leaking for years, but the amount was so minute, it was not really worth it. The only reason I did so was I had to replace the AC compressor. Both were done at 105K miles.

Supercharger replacement varies. Most should get at least 100K out of them, even with a 15% pulley upgrade (which is what the Eaton M45 is designed for from what I have been told). Interesting California covers yours to 7/70K. I had 115K miles on my '02 MCS, and I was still on the original supercharger when I totalled it back in November.