Why sonny, back in my day...

Anyway, many gas pedals used to be pivoted at the top, very short and spaced far away from the brake pedal. People would build little extensions and attach them to the gas pedal. You used your toes on the brake pedal and the heel on the extension. Due to an arthritic right ankle, it is very difficult for me to heel and toe the correct way, so I am forced to do it in the opposite manner: heel on the brake and toe on the gas. The pedals on the MINI are close together, but the gas is pivoted from the bottom. As I'm only in my 3rd week of ownership, I am still sorting things out. However, in nearly 40 years of car ownership, I have never owned an automatic. About a week ago I started doing what nabeshin mentioned: rolling your foot over to touch the gas. The only difference for me is that, since I can't roll my ankle, I swing my knee outwards.

One place where you can see what the pros do is on the road course NASCAR telecasts. They will sometimes put a camera in a car aimed at the driver's feet. Watching someone who is really very good at this, like Boris Said, Ron Fellows, Marcus Ambrose, etc. is a lesson in The Dance...

 

Funny, I would never have known this if I had not seen this message. So far, I have not noticed any significant compliance in the drivetrain. Then again, I have not driven the car hard yet as we're still in Break-In Land.

I used to have a Lotus Elan +2S and it had the rubber couplings instead of U-joints. As long as you kept the drive train loaded under acceleration, it was OK. Hesitate a bit and then getting back in the gas caused a forward and back yo-yoing effect; much like riding with someone who doesn't know how to drive with a manual transmission. Trust me, this was something that you learned very quickly to avoid...

 

Yeah, there have been a few occasion where I thought I had the clutch fully disengaged but it wasn't. Grinded the gear a little.. But I've learned to push it in more. It does feel very good, I mean shifting in this car. It's real smooth. I like it alot.
Sometimes if I am accelerating at a good rate and I push the clutch in real fast, I can still feel it spinning before I shift into the next gear. Has anyone else felt this?

 

Clutch replacement - $2100

New rotors, brake pads - $150

 

Just got back from the PWDA at the Talladega Gran Prix. So much fun. It's very hard to come back from pushing the MINI to it's limits and now having to try and drive sane through the city the limits of 35-45 mph.

During the class, Phil was discussing the value of double-clutching. He pretty much made it out to be a necessity rather than an option and now I can see why. Saves wear and tear on motor mounts, clutch, and transmission. He tried to show me how to do it in my car but I'm just having a hard time with it. I get the concept of how to do it, it's just doing it that's hard.

I did figure out a way to match-revs without double clutching but I don't know if it's good technique (i.e. bad on car).
Say I'm in 4th at 3,000 RPM and I need to get to 3rd. I'll let off the throttle, push in clutch pedal, shift to 3rd, blip the gas, and as soon as I let off the throttle I release the clutch pedal, smoothly & evenly. I don't re-engage fast like but I don't ride it either. Sometimes I get it to where it feels fairly smooth and sometimes I can feel engine lurch, either because I gave it too much gas or not enough.
Am I on the right track?
Do I need to perform proper eouble clutch? i.e. let off throttle, push in clutch, switch to neutral, re-engage clutch, blip the gas, push in clutch, shift to 3rd, re-engage clutch?
Seems so lenghty to be able to do it in a split second!

 

Well I get behind the wheel I peg the engine off the rev limiter and drop the clutch and spin the wheels. And I take it to redline before I shift. When I donwshift if the tranny gives me any trouble I just slam it into gear and let the clutch out. It sounds great and it is the best way to shift...................................Nah j/k I found that the r56 has a very forgiving clutch and tranny.

 

Just push the clutch in a little and let the stick fall into neutral, or just push it there without the clutch. Then blip with the clutch out and as you are putting it into gear you are also putting in the clutch. As soon as it get into gear pull your foot back out. It is better for your synchros, but in all honesty, modern synchros are so good it doesn't make as much of a difference as it used to. I sometimes do it, but when i want it to be fast i just do a regular rev match.

 

simple: paddle in, paddle out

 

You forgot the dual mass flywheel, $800-900, making it closer to $3K.

 

According to Mark Donahue who drove a Porsche in the Can Am in the 60's it is easier on the engine and trans and cheeper in the longrun to just use the brakes and then shift to accelerate. He did not downshift and use the engine for breaking. He had 1000 hp and won each race easily.

 

'72 and '73...

In '72, Donohue missed 4 of the 9 Can-Am races due to a broken leg suffered during a testing crash. Of the 5 that he ran, he won once. George Follmer won the title filling in for Donohue. (Porsche 917/10K)

In '73, Donohue ran all 8 races in the Can-Am series and won 6 times and was the series champion. (Porsche 917/30KL

 

I'm not so worried about destroying the transmission as I am burning out the clutch and/or blowing out the motor mounts, etc. from the motor lurching.

I've gotten better. I have more good shifts than bad shifts now
When upshifting, I let off the throttle, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, clutch in, gear, clutch out, gas. It is very smooth and only takes a half second. Feels very good.
Going from first to second and second to third gives me the most greif at this point. Just gotta work on timing.

As far as downshifting, that is also coming along. I just have to get better at guaging how much to blip the pedal. Sometimes I give too much or too little gas and the revs won't match. But when I do get it right, it feels very good and smooth.

I don't engine break. I either keep it in gear and break and put it into neutral when I hit about 1,000 RPM.

Is it bad on the car to pull it out of gear without using the clutch? I feel a little resistance when trying to do so. Just want to make sure.

 

One thing to remember is that, with enough practice, your fingers will feel where the shifter needs to go rather than trying to force it somewhere. The path of the shifter is defined and it is the same every time. I've seen people stir around trying to find a gear and that just isn't necessary and probably harmful.

I don't know about the MINI, but some cars can be shifted without the clutch. Many years ago I had a VW Quantum and the clutch pedal broke; linkage and everything was intact but there was nothing to press on. I drove without the clutch for 3 or 4 weeks until I had the money to get it fixed. For that car, backing off the gas and applying a bit of pressure to the shifter popped it into neutral. Similarly a bit of pressure would take it into the gear that I wanted. But, the trick is to hold that slight pressure for a moment until the pressure goes away. Then you could go to the next gear. That car had the Audi 5-cyl drivetrain and a 5-speed. The shift linkage had a very positive feel and was hard links instead of cables. As positive as the MINI feels, I assume that it is also hard links.

 

"When upshifting, I let off the throttle, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, clutch in, gear, clutch out, gas."

This is a perfect definition of double clutching. You really don't need to do this as the tranny is fully synchro'd. All you are doing is putting added wear and tear on the clutch. A single press of the clutch is all that is needed.

As for the rev matching when downshifting, this will only get better with practice. You don't need to put the clutch in to take it out of gear as long as there is no resistance while trying to do it.

 

Sometimes I worry that I'm doing my motor mounts a disservice because I get a grunt from the engine on my 1-2 shift, but my MA assures me it's designed for it and that people who shift far worse than me haven't had problems. Hm.

 

ooh, this is news to me... You don't have to clutch to go to neutral?

 

if you're shifting from a gear to neutral, like at a stoplight (which is not a great idea), you should. but if you are immediately shifting between gears you don't need to double clutch it through neutral.

 

OK, so say I'm going from 3rd to 4th. I would typically clutch in, 3rd-neutral-4th (in one motion), clutch out. Are you saying, I should move 3rd-neutral, clutch in, neutral-4th, clutch out?

separate note...
I've heard that if you feel the car correctly, you should never have to clutch when upshifting.

Loving the thread all!

 

hope that helps

 

You can shift up an down without the clutch always. I do it in traffic once in a while when moving at lower RPMs to save a little wear on my clutch. I will start in 1st with the clutch in and move out as normal. At about 2k (give or take a few hundred) I put a little pressure on the lever and when it wants to go in I push it. Same into 3rd @2300ish, 4th at like 2200ish (If I recall correctly, havent done it in a while). After 4th it doesn't like to do it as much so I figure theres no need at 30+mph, or any more than like 20 for that matter.
When downshifting you can do it a lot easier because there is no wear forces on the car as it is decelerating. Pull it out of gear (only if it has little to no resistance) and rev match into the next gear.

 

I would just keep doing what you're doing. No chance you're hurting anything that way.

 

...or you can try this. I just like to know I'm being safe.

 

It can be done safely. I haven't done either in a while. It is not unsafe if done correctly. The problem is doing it correctly. I don't recommend trying it on a regular basis.

 

True, I'm just being conserverative here and using the "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" analogy.

 

Or in this case "If it ain't broke, don't break it"