Ok, the great debate is on, and I wanted to get some opinions regarding the 1st or 2nd generation MINI's.

We are definitely buying a manual transmission, and we have all but decided on an S. I just cannot get myself to choose a slower car on purpose. Plus, I love the 6 speed idea!!

We choose not to buy new (just my opinion) and would rather not break the $20k price range, but will if necessary to get the right fit for what we are looking for.

Basically, the main reason for the vehicle is due to my wife currently driving an SUV about 40 miles round trip each day, so we are looking to get something that is better on gas mileage and in the process is a fun sporty drive for her. She loves the VW Beetles, but I just cannot get myself to trust VW! So we have decided to purchase a Mini.

But, there are a two concerns/questions I have that I wanted some opinions on:

1. Reliability. Now, I am not talking about all the quirkiness of the BMW styled control gauges, etc. I am talking mechanical reliability. I have typically driven Toyota's and Honda's (though I have owned two Mustangs) so reliability on those cars have always been good. I like to guy a car and drive it for 100k miles or more before getting rid of it. In other words, I don't like flipping cars every 3 years (otherwise I would lease). But I am worried about the cost of repairs and the frequency of repairs. Any horror stories or good stories to share about your Mini's?

2. Gas Mileage on the 1st Gen S vs. the 2nd Gen S. Obviously, the 1st gen is supercharged, the 2nd gen turbocharged. But looking at MPG ratings from fueleconomy.gov it appears that the 2nd gen turbo engine gets much much better gas mileage - in fact 5mpg higher on average, quite significant. Has that been your experience? I have trest drove both, and to be honest, I prefer the supercharged "feel" as their is less torque drag and pull from the front wheel drive. It just seems way more smooth to me. However, gas mileage is important to us, so I have to weigh the two options and I am not against the turbo, but thought I wanted to go the SC route until I started looking at MPG ratings.

Thoughts? (thanks in advance)

 

I've had both (well, I had a 1st gen regular Cooper and I have a 2nd Gen S now). the 2nd Gen is more practical - much better gas mileage (I was around 29 mpg on 1st Gen Cooper and averaging now 32 mpg on the new S), more comfortable and quieter. But I'd say - the 2nd gen is a bit less fun and worse interior design and ergonomics. Another plus for a 2nd Gen - you probably can get a decent late 07/08 S for less than 20K and it will have still a lot of warranty left. Tough decision, I know

 

you might be able to score an S cabrio 1st gen with warranty as well

 

Yes.

Our old 1st Gen S averaged 20.6 mpg (calculated), and the max I ever got out of it was 26.4, even when trying to be economical. Our current 2nd gen S is averaging 26.5mpg and got a best of 33.8, without trying hard it was freeway cruising at about 80mph.

The fuel economy is about the only obvious way the 2ng gen is better than the first, everything else is a matter of taste. The 2nd gen is tamer and more civilised, but its probably faster really.

 

If the Mini has no sentimental or heritage value to you, then go for the 2nd Gen, better gas economy, but if you're after economy you may want to consider the reg cooper, the 2nd gen's reg coopers come with 6 speeds and get awesome mileage. Also more probability of warranty, consider the Mini next extended warranty too. Hope to see you on the NAM soon!

 

I've had an 02S and still an 07S and a 79 just for Mini reference

the 02 was a true driver's car....every year after 02 the car was softened to meet customer demand. The tightness people added to 04,5,6 with sway bars etc etc was in the 02. 'People' didn't like the harsh ride. There's nothing like that supercharger whine when you stomp it. Mine was unmodified. The caution you have in buying at 02 is to watch out for heavily modded cars which may have been 'driven like they were stolen'. My softly driven 02 is presently on a dealer lot asking $12k ..... I didn't say it was worth that, only that's what it is advertised for. We traded it in 3 weeks ago.

My 07 - bought cuz the son needed a car and I gave/sold the 02 - reminds me of my 75 Cutlass driven 'til 79. Nice, lots of power, but feels like a bigger car. The TURBO has MUCH better low end torque than the 02 did. I kept the 02 rpm over 3k ALWAYS, else there was no response to the throttle. The 07 will pull strong at anything over 2000 imo.

02 mpg I usually got hi 20's and could squeek a 30 tank on the highway. I push low 30's in the 07 {I get high 30's in the 79} and can sqeek a 40 tank with all highway (75+) driving.

I went to the 02 from a 95 Miata .... actually I kept the Miata and had fun on Saturdays riding twisty roads first in the rwd Miata, then the FWD MINI, then the raw 79 .....

MINI came out in the US in 02 - every year they softened the suspension imo ... the 07 added size and weight, but added low end power.

My bottom line: when I need to replace my 02 I drove a new Miata - a retractable hard top ..... then I bought an 07 S. BUT ... given where they've gone I'm not sure I'd buy another MINI.

Local used car dealer has a Lotus . . .

 

I see no significant difference between the JustaCooper's mileage and the MCS's mileage. They've averaged within 0.5mpg of each other, sometimes the MCS has averaged better. The MCS has got a (slightly) better best mpg as well. Though there were some tweeks done to the 08s (like our MCS) to give then a little better mileage vs the 07s, that may have something to do with what I'm seeing.

Anyway, at least the way we drive, its not obvious the MC does get better mileage.

 

To paraphrase & repost an older post of mine:

2nd Gen MINIs feel very different than 1st Gen MINIs. Some people strongly prefer the 2nd Gen MINIs (quieter, more "refined", BMW-like, much more fuel efficient, newer technology options), and some people strongly prefer the 1st Gen MINIs (more "raw", rougher ride (i.e. feel the road more), more "go-kartish"), not to mention a large number of other appearance differences, both inside and out.

The whole "debate" between the two generations rages on... but the bottom line is, different people want different things. Neither one is "better" in every single way, they both have their pluses and minuses. I'll admit up front that I strongly prefer my 1st Gen MINI, but there are definitely a few features available in the 2nd Gen MINIs that I wish I had.

In short, all I'm saying is... no matter what you end up doing, be sure to drive drive both first, to make sure you know what you're getting (be careful to also compare similar specs... particularly the suspension options!). You might disagree with my own preference and end up preferring the 2nd Gen models, you might not... but I'm positive you'll agree that it feels "different".

 

Off subject, but edge, did i remember you had an earpiece and boom mike for your motorola 2 way? If yes could you provide details about model and where you purchased. Thanks. Superfun

 

I wouldn't trade either of my 02's for the newer generation, but it depends what you're looking for. I can get about 33 mpg on my justaCooper, and about 30 on the S, when driven reasonably. If you want a more civilized ride and better gas mileage, go for the second generation.

 

It sounds like there was something wrong with your 1G MCS. I average almost 30mpg in an 03 MCS. Calculated, not OBC.



There is no reason to ask us. Go test drive both and make a decision. First gen guys like myself will say to stay first gen. Second gen guys will say the exact opposite.

They are two totally different beasts. One is a true enthusiast car, almost comparable to a 4 seat Elise. Harsh and loud. The other is a watered down version to appeal to the masses. Softer and quieter.

Superchargers are leaps and bounds different than turbochargers, and you are going from an old, cast iron block, tank of a 4 cylinder to the modern, aluminum, direct injected, turbocharged engine in the second gen.

 

You're telling me that a turbo Mini set up the same way as a non turbo mini is going to get the same mileage? ............... okay, I'm sure there are enough fuel economy reports to dispute that, maybe I'm missunderstanding you

I don't think it's fair to tell someone to go out and buy a turbo or S/C Mini and expect it to get the same mileage as a reg cooper

 

It is my understanding that Coopers of each generation get better mileage than the S models, whether it is supercharged or turbocharged.

 

Well, no doubt the S will get worse gas mileage than the standard Mini.

However, it sounds to me as if the 2nd gen Mini S (with the turbo) gets better gas mileage than the 1st gen Mini S (with the supercharger). I find that interesting that a turbo gets better gas mileage than the supercharger. It sorta bums me out because personally, I like the feel of the supercharged 1st gen Mini as the 2nd gen Mini has a lot of pull on the front end caused by the turbo.

But I want the S, and I wanted over 30 average for gas mileage. It sounds like I might have to shell up the extra dough for a 2nd gen.

 

The turbocharger doesn't make up the bulk of the fuel savings. Direct injection does.


I still get over 30mpg on average in my superchared MCS.

 

'


Different engines between the 1st and 2nd Gen too!

 

I'd take the 2nd gen Mini for the better mileage and better baked design (instead of more half baked).

 

I would second the post saying to consider the second gen just a cooper. They are generally more reliable and the mileage is significantly better than the turbo. About 3-4 mpg on fuelecononmy.gov. In real world driving I get around 35-38 around town and over 40 on the road.

While many argue the merits of the sc vs turbo and R53 vs R56 S you don't see many arguments of the R50 vs the R56 just a cooper. The improvements of the R5 Cooper made it a very nice car.

 

I suspect the nut behind the steering wheel. MINIs are just too much fun to get good fuel economy, at least the way I do it.

That's exactly what I'm saying, I'm not a government fuel economy program, I'm driving them my way.

Also the actual figures aren't too different between the two. For my pair the official figures are 27 for the MC and 26 for the MCS on the urban cycle. That's pretty much the figures I get, but I'm not driving exclusively urban. The government highway cycle is nothing like the way I drive on the highway either, theirs only goes up to 60mph.

The government figures don't show a yawning gap between the economy figures, its just 2-3mpg for 2009. Don't forget, YMMV and they mean it.

The MCS is remarkably efficient for the power it has.

 

Yawn....since you're being subjective, I will be too. I had an '06 R53 S, arguably the most refined and updated of Gen I, for over a year and 26K miles and loved it. (BTW I never got even close to averaging 30mpg, closer to 21-23) When the R56 came out amidst all kinds of hand-wringing, I went and test drove one and couldn't figure out what all the hoopla was about, still felt like a MINI to me. Ended up getting an '08 MCS a year later, drove it just 8K miles before trading in back for my current '09 JCW coupe. Having now put over 12K miles on it, I think I have a pretty good picture of both Gen's and the ONLY thing I miss from the old one is the cool sound of the supercharger whine. In my subjective opinion, Gen II is better in every way that matters to me. Way faster, better gas mileage, better build quality, comparable handling with factory sports suspension option (I also lose the RF's at first opportunity), better variety of options now. Granted these are my opinions, but I get tired of hearing that I somehow "settled" for something by buying a second Gen car. Back to the OP's original dilemma....if buying used, I think it's always smarter to buy newer. It's not like Gen I and Gen II cars, even with identical mileage, are created equal. Anything that is older will have an increased probability of maintenace and repair issues, and by next year all Gen I's will be out of warranty. Something to think about.

 

Note that the entire engine in a GEN1 vs GEN2 is different ... they didn't just change "the blower".

MPG change is not JUST super vs turbo .....

 

Thanks for everyone's replies. I guess that was silly of me to assume that he major difference in gas mileage between the gen 1 and gen 2 Mini S was the supercharger vs. Turbocharger. It just sounds like they made a more efficient engine in the gen 2's. I for one am partial to superchargers, having owned a supercharged Saleen Mustang a few years back (still crying over selling that). However, considering reliability and gas mileage are two major factors to me, I think I may be leaning towards a used 2nd gen Mini S. However, I just have to get over the sticker shock!

 

Replacing a supercharger is way more expensive than replacing a turbo! The worn out supercharger thing prompted me to switch. The 2nd generation is far far more advanced in evolution than the first generation. From engine built by Chrysler vs buily by Pugeot, better sourced transmissions, will still be under warranty. Keep your foot out of the boost in the gen 2 and you get great gas mileage. That said, I almost cried when I sold my '05 MCS, I have not taken delivery of the new '09 yet. Go with the new generation, it was changed that much for a reason.