Though I do agree that the Big 3 should fall, that would not be good for America as a whole. If any of those companies cease to exist, that would be alot of people out of jobs, and jobs are hard to come by. Heck, even the Mexicans that cross the boarder don't want to come here anymore. You know its bad when that happens.

If all 3 fail, that would hurt America for some time and would be difficult to overcome in the long run. If I recall, if all 3 fail, that would be like 1.2M jobs lost, and that is not good for any country.

 

I haven't had any backlash problems with my 07 MCS. Lovely car. Here in the Chicago area there's lots of imports on the streets (though Minis are in a distinct minority-all the better). Freedom includes freedom of choice. I say motor on!

 

If anybody questions why I drive a MINI and that I'm "Un American", I'll just ask them this simple question "How long have you served in America's armed forces?" I have 12 years in the military, and I feel that I have earned the right to drive whatever I want. That includes if I want to go to Hell and buy a car from Satan himself, that's my choice. I have nothing against American cars. There is just nothing on the market now that appeals to me (except for maybe the HHR SS). An example of why American cars fail: The Pontiac G8 GT is a great PERFORMING car, but look at the bland styling. Anyway, If anybody comes onto my property and tries to deface my vehicles, then I hope they can run faster than my Mossberg and M44.

 

I don't have any guilt...my wife and I bought used, so any money spent here, stayed here. :D

 

Wait, I thought it's really a British-German car?

 

Just something to note: one of the senators who blasted GM at the bailout meeting APPROVED a billion dollar bailout for the JAPANESE and GERMAN auto companies' plants in his state a year or two ago. Maybe we should strip his citizenship and send him to one of those countries since he hates his country's carmakers so much.

 

Lot of arrogant Americans think Canada is a US state anyway. (and they wonder why some Canadians despise us) To those who do not know your geography, Canada is a separate, independent nation.
My high school geography teacher said she saw Canada as just the 51st state. I thought that was insulting of her to believe such a thing. Wonder how she'd react if Canadians called our 50 states the 50 Southern Provinces or something like The 50 Commonwealth Provinces?

 

No one better question me about why I drive a MINI or ask me why I don't buy an American car. Most of the people around here shop at WalMart. Go figure.

 

Last time I checked, MINI's are assembled in Oxford, England. I believe that would mean "British built". Just to clarify.

 

I classify it as British-German because it's loaded with BMW parts. If a car was made in this country with Japanese parts, I'd consider it a Japanese-American car. Note that these days, car companies actually put percentage amounts on the car's nationality!

 

Yeah I've been hearing ALOT about responsibility and job losses lately.

 

Here in the Bay Area [San Francisco] I am not concerned. American brand cars are in the minority, big time.

I don't know the ratio, but it has to be 5 to 1 foreign in the small to medium sized cars. If it's a car that gets good miles per gallon it is usually foreign.

 

By the way, I would buy American if they made a good product. But they don't, so I won't.

I have been thinking of a solution to the current crisis and I thought of this:

1. The fed government subsidizes extended vehicle warranties, in excess of the manufacturer warranty. So if the manufacturer warranty is 3 years, 36,000 miles, the government extends the warranty to 5 years, 60,000 miles and covers all bumper to bumper claims during the extended period.

This will give people faith in the product.

2. The big 3 have to come out with cars that get 25 MPG average city and 30 mpg average highway, by 2010. The mpg ratings are confirmed through actual testing by drivers under real circumstances, not those bogus tests under test track conditions or simulations.

3. The big 3 must cease production of all gas guzzling vehicles, except for trucks that go to people specially licensed to drive them for their occupation. Those people must show that they need the gas guzzler for work [e.g., carpenters, contractors, etc.] and on proof of such they will be issue special plates and driver's license.

4. To stimulate sales, any U. S. car buyer who buys American, a) the U. S. govt. will pay the car buyer's state registration fees for the first five years; and b) the buyer will receive a rebate from the Fed, the amount being the sales tax one is paying when buying the car, or in the case where sales tax is not being paid, 8% of the selling price of the car.

Just an idea.

 

our auto industry should never blame the consumers for their shortcomings! tsk tsk

 

My philosophy is, and will always be...If the American car companies want to survive, changes have to be made. My take, Ford and GM need to merge (yes, they ACTUALLY had talks on this recently in the past), then after merging, they need to purchase Chrysler. Now if you notice, all of the big 3 have a few well built cars, but they also have loads of crap. If the 3 automakers merged, and each kept their "well built and engineered" cars, that would be a step in the right direction. I'd say on Ford's end they have the Flex, Mustang and Taurus. On GMs end, they have the Vette and the Solstice/Sky twins, and the upcoming Camaro. Chrysler has the new Challenger and their mini vans have always been pretty decent. Then if they concentrated on some good, small cars with 30 MPG, they could become a powerhouse in the automotive world. It was said somewhere before that if GM built all thier cars like the C6 Vette and Solstice, they wouldn't have any problems.

 

what about SUVs/crossovers? those are big sellers too.. the flex is not sufficient

 

I have to wonder if some of the problem isn't from
making bad mortgages. (?) Anybody know?

We bought a house two years ago with a VA loan.
By the time I had to make the first payment it was
bought and sold 3 times. One of those times
was GMAC mortgages.

I heard one of the CEOs on the radio I forget apologizing
for, well, lack of a better term, screwing the customer.
Basically in 04/05 I guess selling monster trucks for
killer profits in the 30k range, and then in 07 I think the height
of it, same monster trucks for 18k new. Basically dumping on
the market.

I hear this on clark howard show all the time too.
Basically, "I paid 28k, the book value is 19k, I owe
22k, and people can buy a new one for 17k, what do
I do"

My complaint with the "american" car companies isn't quality
(anymore) or price. it is selection. You have 422 choices
if you want a monster car or truck. If you want a small one,
you have at most one choice. The last small car I can
think of was the Geo metro, and that was made by suzuki.

I think the chance of vandalizm is small.
Most people now realize that most 'american cars' (vs. trucks)
are made overseas, and quite a high percentage of
'imports' are made in the USA.

I would be more concerned if I lived in the rust belt.

 

i love it when you tell someone that lots of toyotas are made in america.. here in little ol Buffalo,wv we make engines and tranny's employ almost 2,000 people..
we begged for these jobs and gave them tax breaks of course..

then they say.
"all the profits go to japan"
ignorance..


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Hell
i own this company you can too.
buy TM
toyota motors
publicly traded

 

Being Canadian, I appreciate your comments. However, there is no shortage of ugly, ignorant Canadians these days. Having grown up in Southwestern Ontario surrounded by the US on 3 sides (look at a map), I had a strong US influence. Most of our TV stations were American. I could look out my bedroom window across the St. Clair River and see Michigan. My Dad worked as a tool and die maker for 40 years, making parts for US vehicles. As goes the US economy, so goes Canada, as you are our largest trading partner. In November 2008, Ontario lost 40,000 jobs, most in the auto sector. Windsor is an automotive town, just across the river from Detroit and our city is in for tough times. I see bumper stickers all over town to the effect of "Not lost your job yet? Just keep buying foreign." Union mentality is prevalent and, I think, one of the biggest causes of the Big 3 decline. Their entitlement attitude drives me crazy. Did you know that $1200 is added to the price of every vehicle to cover employee medical benefits? Who in their right mind thinks they are entitled to 96% of their salary when they retire? Job security? No such thing in this day and age. I believe that the only job security you have is doing the best job that you can do. And that applies to executives as well. No one deserves a $14M/year salary. No one. I would buy a CanAmerican-made vehicle if they made one I liked, if it wouldn't fall apart in 3 years and if it had half the appeal of a MINI.

 

In my opinion, the problem is not that the American car-makers don't make quite a few good products... the problem is that there was a pretty long stretch when they DIDN'T make very many good products, and it's simply going to take time for public perception to catch up to the positive change in their offerings.

-Consumer Reports now says that Ford's cars are on par with Toyota and Honda.

-The Institute for Highway Safety says that Ford has more top-ranked vehicles for safety than any other company.

-People claim that the American offerings are boring, then they go out and buy Camrys, Civics, and Corrolas... I almost fell asleep just typing those names.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's a poor choice to buy an import like a Camry, Civic, Accord, etc... it's not. They're good cars. However, they aren't Head and Shoulders above the American offerings like they were several years ago.

I'm also not saying that the American companies have viable options in EVERY class. I'll be the first to tell you that none of them offer ANYTHING that could be considered to be in the same class as the MINI. There just isn't ANYTHING to compare it to. The American companies are weak when it comes to the very SMALL cars, no doubt. Small cars have never been popular with consumers in America, so it's never been necessary to work hard on them like it was for the last couple years. They are working on it, however. The new Fiesta should be here soon, and it's getting rave reviews in every magazine I've seen. It's still not exactly competition for the MINI, imo, but it should divert some sales away from the Fit, Yaris, etc.

Anyway, the point is, believe it or not, Ford and GM make some quality vehicles that are worthy of comparison with the imports, but it's going to take time to revive consumer confidence in their products other than trucks and pony cars.

That's not to say we should throw a bunch of money at them, either... I'd still rather them be able to drop the UAW like a bad habit, but despite what some may have you believe, they have been making good progress over the last few years.

 

I don't see a problem....not w/ so many people driving Honda's, or Toyotas, or Nissans. From what I can tell any posturing by ad campaigns in this regard will have the same effect it had on the OP......anger. Everybody knows Detroit got themselves in this pickle and the rhetoric I hear from them demonstrates that they still do not have a clue.

 

That's right. Fortunately, I think Congress gets it [most of them driving foreign cars.] Consumers did not tell Detroit to build crappy cars, Detroit made that decision.

That's why my proposals don't say anything helping the Big 3 to maintain the status quo. Most current U.S. cars are junk and the consumer has wised up over the last 30 years to where they simply won't buy, regardless of bailouts or what have you.

 

That's right, Americans have been burned so many times with crappy Detroit products that the perception is that the cars are still a lousy investment. And I don't know how long it would take to convince Americans to give Detroit another chance and actually shell out $25,000 to $35,000 for a Detroit car.

That's a pretty hard row to hoe, to convince someone to gamble. And that's the problem. Detroit is asking the three or four times burned buyer of an American car to take a CHANCE or to GAMBLE that the new Detroit products are now on par with Toyota or Honda.

Americans still have it in their minds that old rule of thumb, borne from American cars, that when a car reaches 80,000 to 100,000 miles it's time to sell it because it is going to start falling apart. In contrast, owners of foreign cars feel comfortable driving a car to 150,000 miles, confident the car will still be dependable and solid.

 

I think the facts (and Consumer Reports, JD Powers, etc) would disagree with that statement. Some? Yeah, probably. Most? No.

However, there are a lot of people who feel that way, and despite many American cars being worthy of comparison with their Import counterparts, it's going to take a while for the general population's perceptions to mirror the positive change out of Detroit.

That's not an advertisement for government loans, either. The fact is, if the Big 3 trotted out all-new lineups tomorrow that were all equal or superior to the competition, they STILL would have a huge hole to climb out of because public perception is never going to change as quickly as the product line does... not to mention they would be and are STILL hampered down by the leach that is the UAW, as well as mismanagement and legacy costs.


EDIT: I guess you replied to my other post while I was writing this one . I think we're on a similar page, here. Even if the American products ARE world-class, it's going to take a while for them to be seen as such by the general population. Some people will buy them, have a good experience, and it will trickle down from there, but that takes YEARS... just like it took YEARS for them to dig the hole that they are in.

 

What I meant to say was that the perceptions of Americans is that most U. S. cars are junk. And that such being the situation, it will be tough for Detroit to overcome such perceptions.

I have been a CR subscriber for 25 years and have seen their ratings on U. S. cars improve as of late. And being a buyer of perhaps 150 cars over time, I can say that I don't even bother considering U. S. cars, notwithstanding what I read in CR. Part of the reason is that the four U. S. cars I have owned were junk and about 20 years ago I said never again. Simply put, I am not willing to take the gamble. And as long as Detroit's car reviews and ratings are that only "some" cars are crap, I am not willing to take the chance that the model I buy would be one of those "some" or few.

Spending $25,000 to $40,000 for a car should not be a gamble that the model purchased is one of the better Detroit cars.

What I tell people is that "it took 30 to 40 years for Detroit to create and establish their horrible reputation, it's going to maybe take that long for them to repair it. It may be too late, unless the government provides financial incentives TO THE CONSUMER to give the cars another try."

Bailouts would only delay the day of doom. As they say in Washington, it would be throwing in good money after bad. To be sure, knowing what we know, would we buy any of the Big Three's stock? I know I would not, because no matter how much money is put into these companies, the cars still will not sell, both because of the bad economy AND the bad reputation Detroit's products have. Having $30,000 to spend on a car Americans will still opt for the Japanese model after comparing those factors important in making such a sizable investment [arguably those factors Consumer Reports uses in its vehicle ratings.]