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An Issue When Buying an Out of State Used MINI

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Old Aug 9, 2008 | 01:50 PM
  #1  
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An Issue When Buying an Out of State Used MINI

If you live in California and buy a MINI located out-of-state, consider the following that I researched and dispatched for a NAM member.

For California purchasers of used out-of-state cars you are required to take it to a California DMV office so it can be inspected. The reason for inspection is that the DMV looks at the smog devices to see if they are in compliance with California's strict emissions controls. If it is NOT in compliance, the buyer may have to spend a lot of money to get it back into compliance and so you can register the car.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm

In California, the California-resident seller is required to provide the buyer with a valid smog inspection certification at the time of the sale or transfer [this means the seller has to do whatever it takes to get a "passing grade" smog certificate.] Here is a DMV form that states this. See "Warning to Buyer"

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg139.pdf

Significantly, a California car seller and buyer cannot agree that the buyer will assume responsibility for the car passing a smog inspection [e.g., the buyer and seller agree to the car being sold in an "As-Is" condition with the buyer implicitly assuming liability for the vehicle not passing a California emissions test and paying to get the vehicle into compliance.]

In fact, after the sale if a California buyer discovers the car won't pass inspection, the buyer can go back to the California seller and get the money it will take to get the vehicle in compliance or even undo the deal.

However, California emissions law CANNOT be enforced on out-of-state sellers. If a buyer purchases an out-of-state car, the financial burden of getting the car to pass a California DMV smog inspection falls on the California resident / purchaser!

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29.htm

On an out-of-state car you have to hope that none of the previous owners removed or modified the MINI's emission control system. If they did fool with it, it's your problem since California cannot impose its emission control laws on non-resident cars and sellers located in a different state.

Bonus Tip: You might be able to get the out-of-state seller to warrant that he or she did NOT tamper with the emissions control systems, guarantee that it will pass a California DMV inspection, and that if it does not, that the seller will pay for all costs to get the purchased MINI California certified. This type of agreement is allowed because it's legal for the parties to contract for such things. The reason a California buyer and seller cannot agree to this is because as a matter of public policy the State wants to put the burden on the party in the best position to get the vehicle in compliance [the seller.] The best way to do this is to make sellers responsible for a car's emission control system, not unsuspecting buyers.

Bottom line: Most cars and motorcycles made nowadays are "50 State" vehicles meaning that manufacturers make cars that will meet emission standards of the strictest State, which I think is California.

But this does not help should the previous car's owners tinker with or remove the emissions control equipment. This is because many States have relaxed emission control laws, to the point that some allow car owners to get away with removing emission control equipment.

For example, a cursory search indicates that Florida does not have emission control inspections when registering or titling a car. That is, similar to what California has:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqmotor.html

From past experience with friends, I can say that their getting cars to pass a California DMV inspection [smog] has cost them a lot of time and money, to the tune of about $1500 average.

So something to think about when buying an out-of-state MINI.
 

Last edited by MichaelSF; Aug 14, 2008 at 09:33 PM.
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Old Aug 11, 2008 | 06:23 PM
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Quick question, do California MINIs have the same emissions equipment as the rest of the states and does it matter with a used car. I understand Mazda makes 2 levels of emission controls for different states. Just wondering about MINI.
 
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Old Aug 11, 2008 | 06:38 PM
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I believe the New England states and California have the same emission requirements. In New Hampshire (where I live) all cars with OBDII 1995 or newer I believe have emissions checked through the ODB II port. If anything shows up, like a check engine light, the car fails emissions and will not pass inspection until corrected.
 
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Old Aug 11, 2008 | 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mimini1
Quick question, do California MINIs have the same emissions equipment as the rest of the states and does it matter with a used car. I understand Mazda makes 2 levels of emission controls for different states. Just wondering about MINI.
I believe that MINI makes "50 State" cars. You can call a MINI dealer to be sure, but pretty sure the plates on the cars say they are 50 State. Let me look at mine and will report back, on what the plate says.
 
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Old Aug 11, 2008 | 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mimini1
Quick question, do California MINIs have the same emissions equipment as the rest of the states and does it matter with a used car. I understand Mazda makes 2 levels of emission controls for different states. Just wondering about MINI.
Yuk... not having access to my car, I looked in my Warranty Book on my 2006 MINI, which is a California car.

There's four (04) pages discussing the California Emission Control warranty. The statements made imply there are "California MINIs" and there are all others. But I do believe it's too costly to make California only cars and then all the rest. So MINI simply makes all MINIs for import to the U. S. "50 State" cars.

However, the manual implies they make "49 State" cars. For example, MINI says:

In California new motor vehicles must be designed, built and equipped to meet the State's stringent anti-smog standards...

This limited warranty applies to California certified vehicles distributed by the MINI Division of BMW NA, registered and operated primarily in California.

Does MINI have California certified cars and MINIs not certified for import to California I don't know.

It may be that the warranty conditions are not as strict in other States, so in other States the warranty terms are different, but the actual MINIs, regardless of State of import, are equipped the same so to meet California's strict requirements.

In other words, we all get the same warranty book, but the California section applies only to California MINI owners, the rest of the warranty pages apply to other States.

See, for example, where the book mentions that the MINI emissions warranty pursuant to federal law is 24,000 miles, two years [whereas on the California pages it's three years, 50,000 miles for some parts, 7 years, 70,000 miles for others.]

Since I am in the book, the parts that apply to the California Emission Control System Warranty Parts List include [some of which any MINI owner can tinker with, or all that can go bad] include:

MINI COOPER:

Engine Control Module
Fuel Tank
Exhaust Manifold with catalyst
Fuel Rail

MINI COOPER S:

All of the above, plus:

Intake manifold
Super charger
Transmission control module
Knock sensor

Under the Federal Emission Performance Warranty, the following systems are covered for two years, 24,000 miles:

Air induction system
Fuel metering system
Ignition system
Positive crankcase ventilation system [PCV]
Fuel Evaporative Control System
Sensors/Devices
On Board Diagnostic System
Related parts associated with the above systems.

Under the Federal Emission Performance Warranty, the following components and/or system are/is covered 8 years, 80,000 miles:

Catalytic converter
Engine Control Module [including on-board diagnostic system.]

Warning: The Warranty Statement includes the obvious: "[This warranty] does not apply if malfunction is caused by... misuse, modification, alteration, tampering, disconnection, or inadequate or improper maintenance." I think that covers most of what modders can do to a MINI to mess up the emissions control systems.

Bonus comment: Seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that the MINI's electronic brain, the ECU or ECM would be covered for 8 years, 80,000 miles. That's handy to know because as some NAM members have mentioned, they have had to take their MINIs in for tweaking or repairs of the ECU. That can get expensive if it's not covered under warranty. Seems a dealer can always cover the work under the Fed smog warranty, which is longer than the MINI 4 year, 50,000 mile warranty.

Call the dealer and ask. Or maybe MINI USA. The warranty book has the following number to call on emissions warranty questions:

1.866.275.6464 [which is 1.866.ask.mini]
 

Last edited by MichaelSF; Aug 11, 2008 at 08:53 PM.
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Old Aug 11, 2008 | 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mimini1
Quick question, do California MINIs have the same emissions equipment as the rest of the states and does it matter with a used car. I understand Mazda makes 2 levels of emission controls for different states. Just wondering about MINI.
You live in Kentucky, why are you asking?

See my post, yours is a good question. Call the number I posted and "ask MINI."

It really all depends on how it pencils out for a manufacturer when building vehicles. For some it may be less to make "49 State" cars and separate "California certified" vehicles.

But in recent years most manufacturers have determined that it's far less costly and less complicated to simply make all vehicles to meet California standards. Most vehicles will have in the engine compartment a plate that states whether it meets California emission control standards. I have to look in my MINI's engine compartment to find that out.

To check mine I have to walk a few blocks to the garage, uncover the car, and check it out. I'm not making a special trip to the car to check it out. So you can take a look at your MINI to see if there is an emissions control statement [it's usually a sticker or metal plate riveted somewhere on the inside of the engine compartment.

Others feel free to chime in.
 
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Old Aug 12, 2008 | 09:36 AM
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I was just curious ,the MINI says it is certified to phase 2 California gasoline standards with no tune up required(HUH). Since ebay and autotrader brings cars for sale across the country it is easy to get cars from different states and at one time California cars had quite different specs from other cars and now the specs seem the same for power and mileage.
 
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Old Aug 12, 2008 | 10:25 AM
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I bought a new MINI in Ohio when I lived in CA. MINI's are 50 state cars. I had to get the MINI smogged when I got back to CA and pay sales tax at the DMV. That was all that was required to register the car in CA.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2008 | 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by emoore
I bought a new MINI in Ohio when I lived in CA. MINI's are 50 state cars. I had to get the MINI smogged when I got back to CA and pay sales tax at the DMV. That was all that was required to register the car in CA.
That's one way it can work, for sure. But my post deals more with someone buying a used MINI located out-of-state and trying to get it registered in California.

I suspect you are right, MINIs are 50-State cars. But I wonder if it has always been that way, from day one. Or did MINI make 50-State cars only after seeing how successful the cars were.

And of course, this begs the question, what about cars that people buy in Europe or otherwise import from overseas. I remember a time ago that was a real risk in buying gray market cars, that the cars could not meet California emission standards.

Interesting for sure.
 
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