Sad pictures to post of Schultze...
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
Unfortunately, it's companies like Nationwide that ruin for everyone. The rule of thumb is 200-250 per panel to paint.
If it's an SUV, you've got a qtr, 2 doors and a fender.... there's 800-1000 right off the bat.
Now you have to drop the rear bumper (so the clear doesn't bridge itself between the qtr and bumper, R&I (remove and install) the taillamp, R&I qtr glass, R&I door handles, belt mouldings, bodyside mouldings, interior trim panel to access door handles, turn signal in the right fender (which may or may not include headlamp assy, frt bumper, etc, etc)
None of this includes the 1.0-2.0 hours per panel to repair, prime and block the key job.
Nationwide sucks. Don't get me wrong, being in this business for 25 years, it's our job to make money HOWEVER, I can't make up numbers for work that doesn't need to be done.... the problem is, insurance companies (Nationwide and Allstate are the worst) will do whatever is necc. to cut corners.
A key job down one side of an SUV should have been at least 1500-1800 bucks.
Stupid insurance companies....
<off my rant>
Back to the Erika's problem. Typically, having a higher deductible will save you money on your premium. Dropping from 1000 to 500 may save a substantial amount on collision.
Comprehensive (fire, theft, vandalism and acts of god) DO NOT raise your rates and usually carry a lower deductible. Lowering your deductible on comprehensive doesn't have the same effect as lowering your deductible on collision.
You rates will not raise because obviously, comprehensive acts are beyond your control.
If you get enough comprehensive claims, eventually your insurance company will cancel your policy. (Allstate is notorious for cancelling policies after 1 claim)
Just like rental... do you know how many people come into my shop and don't have rental???? It's because the agents/insurance companies don't like to mention it because rental is less than 10 bucks per 6 months for $30/day coverage. They don't tell you that because the first day they pay out, they have lost 20 bucks already.
Okay, schools out, gotta get back to work. Erika, the offer is still open if you're in the area.
Mark
If it's an SUV, you've got a qtr, 2 doors and a fender.... there's 800-1000 right off the bat.
Now you have to drop the rear bumper (so the clear doesn't bridge itself between the qtr and bumper, R&I (remove and install) the taillamp, R&I qtr glass, R&I door handles, belt mouldings, bodyside mouldings, interior trim panel to access door handles, turn signal in the right fender (which may or may not include headlamp assy, frt bumper, etc, etc)
None of this includes the 1.0-2.0 hours per panel to repair, prime and block the key job.
Nationwide sucks. Don't get me wrong, being in this business for 25 years, it's our job to make money HOWEVER, I can't make up numbers for work that doesn't need to be done.... the problem is, insurance companies (Nationwide and Allstate are the worst) will do whatever is necc. to cut corners.
A key job down one side of an SUV should have been at least 1500-1800 bucks.
Stupid insurance companies....
<off my rant>
Back to the Erika's problem. Typically, having a higher deductible will save you money on your premium. Dropping from 1000 to 500 may save a substantial amount on collision.
Comprehensive (fire, theft, vandalism and acts of god) DO NOT raise your rates and usually carry a lower deductible. Lowering your deductible on comprehensive doesn't have the same effect as lowering your deductible on collision.
You rates will not raise because obviously, comprehensive acts are beyond your control.
If you get enough comprehensive claims, eventually your insurance company will cancel your policy. (Allstate is notorious for cancelling policies after 1 claim)
Just like rental... do you know how many people come into my shop and don't have rental???? It's because the agents/insurance companies don't like to mention it because rental is less than 10 bucks per 6 months for $30/day coverage. They don't tell you that because the first day they pay out, they have lost 20 bucks already.
Okay, schools out, gotta get back to work. Erika, the offer is still open if you're in the area.
Mark
Now back to me:Oh and so sorry for what happened to your car Erika, you need a garage 
Last edited by JIMINNI; Jul 21, 2008 at 06:05 PM.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,326
Likes: 6
From: PA
Hey all, I had to show my wife this post, here is her response: Ill have you know that I have been a Insurance Adjuster for 30 years, the last 20 with Nationwide in the Litigation Department. I went through my auto appraising school with Vale-Tech in 1982. I know for a fact that Nationwide uses the Mitchell Manual system for estimating, which is the standard for most body shops. Nationwide does not "cut corners" on body repairs and warranties the work on approved body shops for the life of the the car. Who can you say does that nowadays? At any rate, you obviously do not have the entire story to make such a malicious quote. Did the person tell you directly that the repairs sucked?
We do. State Farm, that is. That's a requirement under our Select Service program. Shops have to offer that warranty to be in the program.
I'm pretty sure GEICO and Progressive do also.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,705
Likes: 3
From: Chattanooga, TN
I've stated it many times on this site before, so those of you who have heard the speech, sorry. But please, everyone, condider carrying a $100 deductible on your comp coverage. It's not much more expensive than a $500 deductible and covers SO many causes of loss that are out of your control.
Sorry about your damage. I hope your insurance takes care of your car.
Everyone else,
Take the above advice seriously. I am getting charged a whole $20 a year more moving from $1,000 comp deduct to $100. CR&PW&JB knows what he is talking about.
Hey all, I had to show my wife this post, here is her response: Ill have you know that I have been a Insurance Adjuster for 30 years, the last 20 with Nationwide in the Litigation Department. I went through my auto appraising school with Vale-Tech in 1982. I know for a fact that Nationwide uses the Mitchell Manual system for estimating, which is the standard for most body shops. Nationwide does not "cut corners" on body repairs and warranties the work on approved body shops for the life of the the car. Who can you say does that nowadays? At any rate, you obviously do not have the entire story to make such a malicious quote. Did the person tell you directly that the repairs sucked? She was mad Now back to me:Oh and so sorry for what happened to your car Erika, you need a garage
Now back to me:Oh and so sorry for what happened to your car Erika, you need a garage The stupid part is, to blend a panel, you still have to prep, mask and basecoat at least 50% of the panel (which is harder to feather off basecoat) and then clear the entire panel. (2.4 hours of work)
According to any P-pages, there is a formula to figure blend. It usually comes out to about 1.5 hours per panel.... yet Nationwide uses .9 and 1.0 to blend.
I've been in the bodyshop business for 25 years. I own two shops (one that does restorations) and the other has been in business for 12 years WORD OF MOUTH and REFERALL only.
Ask any bodyshop, Nationwide is a joke.... only superceeded by Allstate.
Nationwide is the only company that would use aftermarket parts on 2008 Toyota Camry with 400 miles on it. I argued with Nationwide for a week, the customer argued with them for 2 weeks and she went and got a lawyer. He argued for 2 weeks.
Guess what? Nationwide would not replace the parts with anything other than aftermarket. I did manage to get them to use factory parts.... I had to lie to them and tell them that a CE uses different parts than an SE. Then it was okay
I won't ruin Erika's thread any more than I have but ask any bodyshop owner what they think of Nationwide and Allstate and you'll find the truth.
And the next time she tells you she went through "appraisal school in 1982", ask her is she has ever picked up a paint gun and painted anything? Ask her if she has ever spent 2 days tinting paint spraying a 5x8 card one card at a time to tint color????
I know for a fact that Nationwide uses the Mitchell Manual system for estimating, which is the standard for most body shops. Nationwide does not "cut corners" on body repairs and warranties the work on approved body shops for the life of the the car. Who can you say does that nowadays?
We do!!! Warrantied as long as the owner owns the car.
At any rate, you obviously do not have the entire story to make such a malicious quote.
Nationwide, smationwide..... hmmmph.
Mark
PS. (my distaste is with Nationwide, not your wife)
Last edited by orangecrush; Jul 21, 2008 at 07:15 PM.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
Tell her if Nationwide is so up to date and they don't rip off bodyshops and since she is so knowledgeable about Mitchell, ask her why doesn't Nationwide use the "P-Pages" (if she even knows what they are) to estimate blending a panel. Nationwide pays 1.0 hours to blend a panel.
The stupid part is, to blend a panel, you still have to prep, mask and basecoat at least 50% of the panel (which is harder to feather off basecoat) and then clear the entire panel.
According to any P-pages, there is a formula to figure blend. It usually comes out to about 1.5 hours per panel.... yet Nationwide uses .9 and 1.0 to blend.
I've been in the bodyshop business for 25 years. I own two shops (one that does restorations) and the other has been in business for 12 years WORD OF MOUTH and REFERALL only.
Ask any bodyshop, Nationwide is a joke.... only superceeded by Allstate.
Nationwide is the only company that would use aftermarket parts on 2008 Toyota Camry with 400 miles on it. I argued with Nationwide for a week, the customer argued with them for 2 weeks and she went and got a lawyer. He argued for 2 weeks.
Guess what? Nationwide would not replace the parts with anything other than aftermarket. I did manage to get them to use factory parts.... I had to lie to them and tell them that a CE uses different parts than an SE. Then it was okay
I won't ruin Erika's thread any more than I have but ask any bodyshop owner what they think of Nationwide and Allstate and you'll find the truth.
And the next time she tells you she went through "appraisal school in 1982", ask her is she has ever picked up a paint gun and painted anything? Ask her if she has ever spent 2 days tinting paint spraying a 5x8 card one card at a time to tint color????
Nationwide, smationwide..... hmmmph.
Mark
PS. (my distaste is with Nationwide, not your wife)
The stupid part is, to blend a panel, you still have to prep, mask and basecoat at least 50% of the panel (which is harder to feather off basecoat) and then clear the entire panel.
According to any P-pages, there is a formula to figure blend. It usually comes out to about 1.5 hours per panel.... yet Nationwide uses .9 and 1.0 to blend.
I've been in the bodyshop business for 25 years. I own two shops (one that does restorations) and the other has been in business for 12 years WORD OF MOUTH and REFERALL only.
Ask any bodyshop, Nationwide is a joke.... only superceeded by Allstate.
Nationwide is the only company that would use aftermarket parts on 2008 Toyota Camry with 400 miles on it. I argued with Nationwide for a week, the customer argued with them for 2 weeks and she went and got a lawyer. He argued for 2 weeks.
Guess what? Nationwide would not replace the parts with anything other than aftermarket. I did manage to get them to use factory parts.... I had to lie to them and tell them that a CE uses different parts than an SE. Then it was okay
I won't ruin Erika's thread any more than I have but ask any bodyshop owner what they think of Nationwide and Allstate and you'll find the truth.
And the next time she tells you she went through "appraisal school in 1982", ask her is she has ever picked up a paint gun and painted anything? Ask her if she has ever spent 2 days tinting paint spraying a 5x8 card one card at a time to tint color????
Nationwide, smationwide..... hmmmph.
Mark
PS. (my distaste is with Nationwide, not your wife)
???? What exactly am I doing for 12 hours a day???? You're telling me she deals with estimates from crappy adjusters more than I do???
Now that's funny.
Mark
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
BTW you started this extra discussion.
Actually yes... I use over 6000 minutes a month on my phone.
Who does your body work?
4 bodymen and 2 painters, a prep and a detailer.
Yeah, tell that to one of my bodyman that made 87K last year.
Or 68K for one of my painters....
if that's minimum wage, I'd take it.
Mark
Who does your body work?
Minimum wage employes
Or 68K for one of my painters....
if that's minimum wage, I'd take it.
Mark
Jim,
I'm going to stop this since we already have ruined Erika's thread. This thread was about her car and the damage done. I have nothing against your wife, I know how it is in the real world and how the rules that Nationwide adjusters have to follow.
When you've got Nationwide adjusters pizzed because they don't like the rules themselves, it says something about Nationwide's policies.
I wish your wife the best, she's obviously good at what she does, she's been with them for a long time.
Hope you and her have a great night.
Sorry Erika.
Mark
I'm going to stop this since we already have ruined Erika's thread. This thread was about her car and the damage done. I have nothing against your wife, I know how it is in the real world and how the rules that Nationwide adjusters have to follow.
When you've got Nationwide adjusters pizzed because they don't like the rules themselves, it says something about Nationwide's policies.
I wish your wife the best, she's obviously good at what she does, she's been with them for a long time.
Hope you and her have a great night.
Sorry Erika.
Mark
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
Unfortunately, it's companies like Nationwide that ruin for everyone. The rule of thumb is 200-250 per panel to paint.
Nationwide sucks. Don't get me wrong, being in this business for 25 years, it's our job to make money HOWEVER, I can't make up numbers for work that doesn't need to be done.... the problem is, insurance companies (Nationwide and Allstate are the worst) will do whatever is necc. to cut corners.
Mark
Nationwide sucks. Don't get me wrong, being in this business for 25 years, it's our job to make money HOWEVER, I can't make up numbers for work that doesn't need to be done.... the problem is, insurance companies (Nationwide and Allstate are the worst) will do whatever is necc. to cut corners.
Mark
I am very mindful of insurance companies and their practices. I won't go into detail, but I have been involved in insurance bad faith claims over the years where the abuses have resulted in significant settlements.
In the past 19 years I have made about four claims with Nationwide. One was where the left front fender of my then-Mercedes got whacked.
I made a call to Nationwide and they agreed I could take it to the body shop of my choice [as I insisted.] The job ended up costing about $7800, a tidy sum back then for replacing one fender and painting it to factory specs.
About 6 years ago I made a claim on my BMW 740i fender that got slightly scraped. Again, a call to Nationwide and they authorized buffing and painting which was about $1800, a lot for the little amount of damage there was.
Over the years I have determined that all insurance companies are not perfect. When an insurer acts unfairly on a claim sometimes it has turned out to be a company wide policy, other times it's been a regional practice and yet other times simply an aggressive or rogue "adjuster."
All in all, however, from experience I can say Nationwide is no better nor worse than other insurers. State Farm, Truck, Allstate, Farmers, Progressive, Nationwide, etc., all have horror stories of abuse, but also many, many kudos. [Albeit IMHO Farmers and their Truck Insurance Exchange is the worst of the lot.
]Insurance is a tough business and right down there with what people think about bankers and lawyers. That's the way it goes.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
We were able to remove the paint (most of it, anyhow) and most of the unknown substance, but we still cannot identify the substance.
Whatever it was, it apparently softened the clearcoat and then "recured" itself. There's a very distinct "watersplash" design on the clearcoat, but there's absolutely no texture, no difference in paint thickness (measured via micrometer), and no softness to the affected areas. The clearcoat is literally as smooth as glass, but with a "design" underneath.
Whatever it was, it apparently softened the clearcoat and then "recured" itself. There's a very distinct "watersplash" design on the clearcoat, but there's absolutely no texture, no difference in paint thickness (measured via micrometer), and no softness to the affected areas. The clearcoat is literally as smooth as glass, but with a "design" underneath.
I have seen that "phenomena" before on some of my cars, where the "stain" works itself under the clearcoat and stays put. I don't know how that happens but it is frustrating because I don't think it can be fixed by cleaning, buffing, etc.
Will you be getting the damaged areas repainted?
Good luck on catching the criminals. Hopefully it's kids with parents of means who can reimburse you for the insurance deductible I assume you have to pay.
If it's adults, hopefully they get some jail time and a rap sheet.
The only cure may require refinishing...
I hope it wetsands and buffs.
Mark
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
Jim,
I'm going to stop this since we already have ruined Erika's thread. This thread was about her car and the damage done. I have nothing against your wife, I know how it is in the real world and how the rules that Nationwide adjusters have to follow.
When you've got Nationwide adjusters pizzed because they don't like the rules themselves, it says something about Nationwide's policies.
I wish your wife the best, she's obviously good at what she does, she's been with them for a long time.
Hope you and her have a great night.
Sorry Erika.
Mark
I'm going to stop this since we already have ruined Erika's thread. This thread was about her car and the damage done. I have nothing against your wife, I know how it is in the real world and how the rules that Nationwide adjusters have to follow.
When you've got Nationwide adjusters pizzed because they don't like the rules themselves, it says something about Nationwide's policies.
I wish your wife the best, she's obviously good at what she does, she's been with them for a long time.
Hope you and her have a great night.
Sorry Erika.
Mark
And It's all cool Mark I will not show her the rest of this as I am the one to live with her
Last edited by JIMINNI; Jul 21, 2008 at 08:24 PM.
Erika,
I have seen that "phenomena" before on some of my cars, where the "stain" works itself under the clearcoat and stays put. I don't know how that happens but it is frustrating because I don't think it can be fixed by cleaning, buffing, etc.
Will you be getting the damaged areas repainted?
Good luck on catching the criminals. Hopefully it's kids with parents of means who can reimburse you for the insurance deductible I assume you have to pay.
If it's adults, hopefully they get some jail time and a rap sheet.
I have seen that "phenomena" before on some of my cars, where the "stain" works itself under the clearcoat and stays put. I don't know how that happens but it is frustrating because I don't think it can be fixed by cleaning, buffing, etc.
Will you be getting the damaged areas repainted?
Good luck on catching the criminals. Hopefully it's kids with parents of means who can reimburse you for the insurance deductible I assume you have to pay.
If it's adults, hopefully they get some jail time and a rap sheet.
Spent another night checking on Schultze every two hours...it feels like I have a newborn again! LOL
I still have to go through all the posts in this thread, so if I haven't acknowledged someone's post yet, that's why...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 4
From: Youngsville, NC, USA
Does the mini use a special paint?
I thought I read here that it uses a special new
kind of paint (no primer).
I hope you are able to get it fixed.
I hope you are able to give that punk some troubles.
I thought I read here that it uses a special new
kind of paint (no primer).
I hope you are able to get it fixed.
I hope you are able to give that punk some troubles.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: Katy Texas
I'm sorry for your damages... it seems that children these days have no moral fiber or character of any kind. They have no respect for the property of others and the hard work that went into aquiring that property. I have fought with our prior neighbors for years. Their children seem to love playing baseball in the street and instead of using they're own cars as back-stops, mine would work better. They have busted out windows on houses but nothing gets done about it. You mention it to parents and it falls on deaf ears. I call it beercan parenting... you know who I'm talking about the parent that sits out side with a can of brew in one hand and a cig in the other telling you how much better they are and how awesome their delinquint kid is... yeah the one who has to go to summer school to advance to the next grade... Awesome!
I'm sorry for your damages... it seems that children these days have no moral fiber or character of any kind. They have no respect for the property of others and the hard work that went into aquiring that property. I have fought with our prior neighbors for years. Their children seem to love playing baseball in the street and instead of using they're own cars as back-stops, mine would work better. They have busted out windows on houses but nothing gets done about it. You mention it to parents and it falls on deaf ears. I call it beercan parenting... you know who I'm talking about the parent that sits out side with a can of brew in one hand and a cig in the other telling you how much better they are and how awesome their delinquint kid is... yeah the one who has to go to summer school to advance to the next grade... Awesome!
Having said that, I believe it all comes down to the parents. Children learn what they live and I honestly feel that the parents should be held responsible for their children's actions because if they really didn't know better, that means the parents didn't teach them the difference between right and wrong.
If I had done something like vandalize a car, my father would have literally beat me within inches of my life. There was no "gray" area but I sure as hell knew right from wrong and would have never dreamed of destroying someone's vehicle.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.... sometimes you just need to cut the tree down.
Mark
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
I think I read that the 2nd gen ones do not have the primer. 1st gen do.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
From: USA
I have one of these. It loves kids, hates strangers, and is very particular about stuff (like cars) that occupy its territory.