another L.A. traffic victim here . i chose the CVT on my 2003 and really like it- especially in SD mode. would i prefer a manual? yeah probably and i may get one when i get an "S". but, i plan on keeping my R50 for a very long time and the freeways are hell here, so the automatic is worth it.

i do worry about the CVT but, realize that the failure rate is actually pretty low. you really only hear about the ones that go bad, not the ones that are still going strong. i'm at 38k miles and for peace of mind i got a MBI last month (mechanical breakdown insurance in california) for $1400 that will carry me into 2012 and covers every single item (maintenance excluded) on the R50 including the tranny. not too bad a deal when you consider my power steering pump is leaking and thats a $800 fix on its own right there within the first 30 days of purchasing the warranty. much less a $7000 tranny if it goes .

i do prefer a manual but, in an L.A. commute it gets old fast. depends on your traffic situation though i suppose.

 

|I alternate between driving my 05 6 speed manual,and my 07 auto.Can't say i really prefer one over the other.

 

How is the mini CVT
I just drove a CVT (rental dodge Caliber) for the past 2 weak on a business trip. It was freaky. I'd floor it (because I abuse rentals) and It would get off to a lame slow start and then because it would just hang at the same RPM I wouldn't notice how fast I actually get going. It's weird I couldn't say if that car was slow or not. (it did hate doing over 75 (speed limit) and got really poor highway milage but I think it was pretty good in the city.)

I love my 6-spd but I'd regret it a little if I had to do a lot of stop and go city driving. The 6-spd has a negative fun factor in stop and go traffic.

 

+1

I drove an automatic for 5 years before trading it in for an R56. My wife doesn't drive a manual and opted for an auto R56 for herself. Love both cars and both have their quirks. When I decided to get a Clubman this year, the manual was a choice for me. Though I am on the road at least 20 hours a week, the thrill of rowing through the gears when I am in the twisties makes up for the inconvience of stop and go.

 

i like the cvt for it's advantages here in L.A. traffic. some people may say it's whimpy but, i'm not a fan of heavy traffic and manual at all. i'm a texan and i'm just used to the smoother flow of traffic there than here. back home in texas (san antonio) a 20 mile drive usually equates to a 20 minute drive. i have had plenty of ocassions here in L.A. where that 20 mile drive can be a 2 hour drive in bumper to bumper, stop/start traffic. the CVT has saved my sanity.

not sure how the dodge was but, the other thing i like about it is the sports mode/ steprtronic. toggle the selector over to the right and you enter SD mode. from there you can let the car make the shifts for you (with much higher RPM shifting points than normal D) or you can shift through virtual gears 1-6 just like a manual. i use these modes when i'm bombing around the neighborhood on short runs. or up in the hills on a nice drive. it's a blast and you get a lot more oomph out of the tranny. so i guess in a sense for a guy like me that DOES enjoy a manual, i kind of get that "involvement" when i want it. then in bumper to bumper i let the cvt do all the work. guess in a way it's the best of 2 worlds. city and highway mileage are great at over 32 MPG on the average. getting up to and over 75 MPH is a breeze in my R50.

one note about the MINI CVT is that is does lurch or stumble a bit off the line when you gas it for take off- at a stop light etc. but, when i added a C.A.I. and a nicer catback exhaust, the lurch went away. i attribute the disappearance of the stumble to better airflow.

again i'll mention that the bad CVT's have gotten plenty of negative posts and i guess i would post and be pissed if mine went bad too. but, you don't hear much, if anything about the ones that have lasted which outweigh the bad ones by a large margin. i'm at 37k now which isn't a ton of miles but, mines going strong. there are plenty of others that have many more miles than that though and are hanging rock solid. and others that track their CVT's and are happy with what they get in that area out of it.

still. i will admit a $7000 replacement does concern me since apparantly there is no "fix" for it just a total replacement. but, like i said the extended warranty eases my mind til 2012. at that point i'll be looking at an "S" and figuring out what to do with the R50. i'd like to keep it forever but, that may be unrealistic.

 

i guess you can go for the auto but we have two, one of each. i dont drive stick either so i made my husband buy me an automatic mini. sad part of this story is ....im trying to learn how to drive his mini now lol because it seems to be fun. dont get me wrong the auto tranny is amazing compared to any other car ive driven but .... something about manual cars and turns just catches my attention!

 

My Clubman with auto trans is currently crossing the pond. I read a few comments in this thread about how to use the paddle shifters. Can someone or two elaborate?
I'm moving from a manual Cooper to the auto tranny for commuting and other reasons and would like to get the best performance from it. Doesn't using the paddles make it just like a manual?

 

From my understanding - yes, it's similar to a manual the only difference is you dont actually have a clutch. You're just shifting the gears without using clutch.

 

i have one of each and i wouldn't really say its the same thing. dont get me wrong shifting with the paddles is alot of fun but its nothing like driving a stick mini.on the up side though we have a faster 0-60 and our gears are longer so we can usually beat a mini with equal mods!!!

 

Not even close. The computer still overrides you way too easily (not shifting when you ask it to... or shifting when you didn't ask it to). Also, the delay between when you tell it to shift, and when it actually shifts, is irksome.

Only a manual is truly manual (duh. heh), because you are 100% in control of what happens, when.

I'm not trashing autos, they have their place... (even though I strongly dislike them personally) but even with the "manual mode", they're a world apart from the real thing... at least with the current technologies offered in MINIs. Other newer auto technologies such as BorgWarner's Direct-Shift Gearbox go a long way to closing the gap in terms of experience... but unfortunately MINIs don't have that yet!

 

Agreed - it IS a very different animal than a manual.

But in the "manual/sport" mode, once you've made one manual paddle shift, it will NOT automatically shift unless you hit redline (in which case it will upshift one gear for you), or you're stopping and are lugging it (in which case it will downshift - all the way to 2nd if you stop completely), or you switch back to plain old "auto" mode.

The way the "plain auto" mode works IS a DOG in my opinion... and lots of folks have developed a negative opinion of the MINI auto tranny from brief experiences in that mode. The "sport" mode behaves much better for most driving - in only use the "D" mode on the highway to access 6th gear. But when I'm in "manual" mode, and using the paddles exclusively, shifts are plenty quick for me in aggressive twisty driving... certainly there is more drivetrain loss and less direct "feel" with the torque converter. But that also means you can get MORE torque at launch... which is cool...

 

Thanks. That's very helpful. Just a couple of other stupid questions, if you don't mind.

Is manual/sport mode the same thing?
The tranny won't go into 6th in manual/sport mode?
Do you move the gear lever to go from plain auto to manual/sport or is there a switch or toggle somewhere else?
Like a regular manual in all my other cars, do you lift off the gas while pushing the upshift paddle and "blip" it while downshifting?
I read somewhere here that the car is faster to 60mph with the auto trans. Is that in plain auto or manual/sport.

Thanks. I should get the car in about two weeks and this is very helpful since the last auto trans car I owned was forever ago and had only PRND or L to choose from.

 

I have a 1st gen... I THINK the tranny behaves the same in the R56...

Yes - Not to be confused with the R56 MCS "sport" button... for the tranny, you move the shift lever to the right from normal "Auto" mode. It's in "sport auto" mode - automatically shifting more aggressively than "normal auto" mode - until you use a paddle - then it is in "manual" mode until you move the shift lever back to "auto"...

It will if you shift to it with the paddles or redline 5th . But won't auto-shift to 6th R52/53. Not sure about the R56.
You move the gear lever to the right, to the spot marked "M/S"
Varies. Sometimes I do. But usually I don't. If you're making extra revs, the torque converter "converts" these into extra torque until the tranny revs match the engine revs... if you downshift, it engine brakes... which I do regularly on mountain twisties. I drive my car in manual mode TOTALLY differently than I would drive a clutched manual. I use the auto & torque converter to my advantage. If it ever blows up, I'll get it fixed. But it seems pretty robust.
I don't know. But I suspect "sport auto". Which, at WOT, behaves quite well in a drag scenario.

 

Not the case here. I've spent a good amount of time with several MCSa's... in all modes... and it still paled in comparison to the manual (for me). A lot of that has to do with the fact that every shift I made still felt like the computer had to double-check my decision (which of course, is exactly what it's doing).

This can be compensated for somewhat by deliberately anticipating and initiating your desired shift a little earlier than when you normally would... but in a real manual, you don't even have to put any thought into "allowing for computer calculation time", you just shift exactly when you want it... no sooner, no later.

Yes, even the reported 0.25 (or more!) sec shift time is too slow. That's 0.25 sec added to your own human response & reaction times, etc.

On top of all of that, the computer ignores your shift requests when your foot is all the way to the floor (past the detent)... very infuriating. "Huh? If I tell you to shift, SHIFT! Don't second-guess me!" ...at least that's what happened to me in the times I've driven an MCSa. Having to keep my foot before the detent just to be able to manually shift... is very annoying.

 

i have raced my two minis at a drag strip a few times. one is auto (which at the time only had intake) and the other is manual with intake and exhuast. we raced about 5 times and the auto mini won all five. the gears are longer in the auto (in sport mode) than the stick and it wont peel out as much at the take off.

 

I don't doubt that, but simply putting your foot to the floor and doing the quarter mile is a totally different type of driving than a road course... for starters, you never downshift in a drag race!

Mind you, if you're peeling out in the manual, then clearly more time is needed to learn the right throttle positions to maximize grip, so that won't be an issue.

 

A 30 foot fall off a cliff decided whether or not I would drive an MCSA.I have no motor function below my knees.To get around this, I wear stiff brace on my right foot.This turns my hip flexor into the new articulation point.Even though I cant feel a damn thing in my feet,I know where my foot is by sonar.(not really )Needless to say I baffled a driving instructor after I aced a way more vigorous test than any driving test most encounter.(2 hrs of every situation he could conceive).
NO HAND CONTROLS!
That was 10 yrs ago.

I've had 2 minis and a VW in that time.
I'm pretty sure I have a pretty spicey car as far as MCSA's go....or most MINI's-manuals included.It aint no 250 hp beast,but I'd drive one in a heartbeat if MINI would get off their *** and make a tranny modable to that level!-sorry for the rant
I'm certain that those in the wake of my dust know not that I drive an automatic....or that I'm in a wheelchair.ha
Blimey has mentioned the hi points of paddle driving.
The drawbacks are there too.
If you prep well for corners and keep your rpm's at the right level then...
9/10 times I feel it's moot.
The bottom line is that it's a friggin blast.

 

I didn't say "Edge has developed a negative opinion of the MINI auto tranny from brief experiences in that mode."

I completely understand. And I completely agree that for any form of motorsports other than maybe drag racing, the manual would be uber preferable...

And if the MCSA came with a DSG... well, that would be awesome - and then we'd have a whole different set of debates on a related topic...

If I could have TWO MCS's... I'd absolutely have one of each... but I can only have one right now... and the 90% of the driving I do where the auto is better for me outweighs the 10% where I wish I had a clutch... But I'm definitely angling for that hardtop manual track rat in another couple of years...

But I've been pleasantly surprised by how much fun and control I can have with the slushbox. But you're right - it DOES require a different driving style and different anticipation and timing than the manual for optimal performance. And, no matter what, you're gonna have more drivetrain loss - comes with the territory. But there's also a lot of mindset involved. If you have the "I'm not going to have anything other than an auto right now, so I'm gonna figure out how to adapt ME to make the most of it" mindset, it's a very different experience than if you have the "wow, there's another reason I don't like this as much as my manual" mindset.

 

EDGE if you where to come to AMVIV I'ed take you for a ride in my car and see if you can't have a WOT and shift when ever you want ( up to redline). Autos require more HP, but all that takes is money.

 

Yes, it would... and a setup like that just might be enough to convince me to switch on my next car (although I'll never sell this MINI!). Well stated, and yes, I totally appreciate that my mindset isn't "one" with the automatic to begin with... still, additional shift delays (and drivetrain loss, as you suggested) remain relevant points of consideration.

Look, I'm not slamming automatics, nor their drivers. I think I said very clearly early on that I believe they "have their place". Chief among them (WAY above "stop and go traffic" concerns) is physical disability limitations, as noted by "the platform" in post #92. There are valid and understandable reasons why people opt for them...

...but the one excuse that I doesn't gel with me is "I don't know how". To them I say: You know what? Everyone didn't know how at one point. If someone cares about the "sportiness" of their vehicle and driving beyond "casual commuter" habits, then they owe it to themselves to at least learn, so they can make an informed decision about their preferences... even if they still decide an auto is best for their lifestyle.

There's also the emergency factor... if you're ever in a situation where you have to drive a manual in an emergency (only car available, owner incapacitated, etc), wouldn't you be happy you at least knew how?I'd love to come to AMVIV but I haven't made it there yet due to the distance... are you coming to MOTD? (my guess is no, for the same reason, right? )

Perhaps the MCSa units I drove were an earlier revision of the programming (this was within the first few months it came out), or maybe they just needed more time to learn my driving style... but I have vivid memories of very different behavior before the detent and after the detent. Behavior I didn't like!

However, I wouldn't recommend the "autos require more HP, but all that takes is money" argument though, it's a losing one, because it's apples to oranges. You can mod manuals in the same manner for the same money or less.

 

I guaran-dang-tee ya that, if the DSG were offered, there would be a whole parallel set of debates around the "you ain't really drivin' if you ain't clutchin'" nonsense... mostly by 97% of the same people who say things like that regarding the current automatics...

But I am NOT accusing you of this - I'm confident that our opinions are more alike than different in this general area... and I never thought you were slamming autos. Far from it.

And I agree- EVERYONE ought to learn to drive a stick... if for no other reason, than to be able to tell their grandkids some day "back when I was younger, they had cars with CLUTCH PEDALS!!!" Kinda like my mom talking about riding in horse-drawn buggies when she was a girl.

 

When I do the Phil's Wick's Academy at VIR in July, my technique is going to be to put it in manual mode, but letting it upshift automatically when it hits redline, and then doing the down shifting my self. This seems to work very well for me when "performance driving"

 

oh and a DSG tranny and AWD would be all it would take for me to suddenly crave a R56!

 

EDGE your right, I won't be at MOTD. The older trannys are CVT'S but from 05 on it's a different tranny. I think it could be better but it works pretty well. I've got some things coming up in regards to tuning the ECU and tranny. I've had serveral sticks and your right about straight line racing.

 

I think you have things mixed up a bit.

• The CVT was the only automatic transmission for all 1st Gen hardtop MINI Coopers (non-Ses - i.e. R50) from 2002-2006 model years.
• In the same vein, the CVT is the only automatic transmission for 1st Gen convertible MINI Coopers (non-Ses), from 2005-2008 model years.

What you are thinking of is the MCSa. Automatics were not available on the MINI Cooper S until the 2005 model year, and it is a traditional automatic, not a CVT.

So, in short:

Every 1st Gen automatic MINI Cooper has a CVT - all the way though 2008 convertibles!
Every 1st Gen automatic MINI Cooper S does not have a CVT

They have only completely ditched the CVT for 2nd Gen MINIs.