yep, we certainly need such a product here in hawaii...and i'd definitely buy one.

 

+1 You'd already have my credit card info if a retractable shade was available for my R56. No joke..

 

Yeah at a cost of $25 for off the shelf parts, even if you bring down the costs--you're going to have an initial manufacturing investment--maybe 500 pcs, legal fees, insurance, etc.. all the things that go into making the product, and don't forget the first production run is never perfect, so you will be making revisions, and making a version 2 and be left with "old ver. 1 stock" that you can't sell--as well as if you want to have people selling your product, they need to make enough money to justify selling it, and if you want to have distributors about those retailers--they need to make a cut too, so suddenly you end up with a $79 product that cost $10 to make.

As a potential customer, I think this product would sell with a retail price in the $49 to $79 price range--maybe more, maybe less--but compare that to the alternative of tinting the roof darker--how much would that cost?

You could make a higher end one by adding graphics or logos to the material and charging a premium--say $25 more or so.

Just my 2 cents.

 

It looks like a good prototype.

First off, you told how much $$$ it was to make. This was mistake # 1. You need to give a price and not the cost.

Secondly, let's say that there are 1000000 MINIs. About half have a sunroof. If only 10% of the sunroof owners want this product then your market is 50000. If you make $50.00 off each unit then you stand to make $2,500,000.00. Not too bad if you are working for yourself, but if you sell this idea to another party then the profit will go way down. Plus, they will most likely just give you a cut per unit and not a $500000.00 check right off the bat.

I say learn some skills, do this in your free time and clean up!

 

I have limo tint and would still buy this. As a former business owner and you, as a present one, OG, know there are always a ton of pitfalls that you could use not to proceed. But, if you make up your mind you can overcome them. I got a bottle of Black Wow. And I want one of these, dammit!

 

I agree, but I wasn't discouraging Umberto, or I didn't mean to imply that. The Limo Tint comparison was more to help set a ball park price. The shade IMO, has more value than just tint--but if someone were willing to spend $50 on tint, they would more than likely be willing to spend more than that on something that was more flexible and performed better.

As for CooperGear, playing the numbers game is risky. If Umberto were to make 50,000 pieces at $10/cost--he would have to invest atleast $500,000 upfront for manufacturing. This doesn't include freight, packaging, fulfillment, employees, advertising, etc..

If he's able to make these in small quantities--say a few hundred at a time, he can test out the market with limited risk, and if it's successful, he can then sell the idea to a larger company who can finance the venture. Sure there is less profit to be made, but without financial backing, he stands to not be able to take steps forward, or worse, someone else might come out and copy him and take over the market. And as a small guy, you can't afford the lawyer fees to fight a battle like that.

Even when people tell you to get a patent--a patent is useless if you can't provide the legal might to defend your invention.

I definitely think this product should be made--but if you really want to see it come to fruition--do whatever it takes to get a couple hundred made, and offer them for sale here on NAM and go from there.

Richard

 

I agree 100%

 

Not to mention its very questionable if this is a patentable idea. On top of that, applying for a patent requires $. Even if you know how to write a patent yourself, the fee for applying is ~$480, and as I said, this sort of invention is questionable as to its patentability, as there is more than likely something out there that would qualify as prior art.

Have you approached those who make the off the shelf parts that you use about volume discounts? This would be your first way to cut manufacturing costs. I wouldn't expect to get rich off the idea, but you can make some decent side income out of it if you do it right. NAM is the perfect portal for you to sell through.

 

I'll take one for my 2007 MCS! How much and when can I expect delviery? ;-)

 

The fact that it is designed specifically to work on MINI's shade would seem to reduce any question of similar art. Plus, as I said, there's always reasons not to do something, if you need an excuse.

 

What company's often do, especially in the skin care world, is they file a provisional patent which buys them a few years to be able to put a Patent Pending on the product. The manufacturers know the product isn't patentable, but it allows them to make marketing claims that their product is so unique it's patent pending, which actually means very little--but also hopes to scare off any would be competitors. On the other hand, filing a patent means you have to describe in detail how your invention works and what it looks like, and this information is available to the public--makes for easy copying.

Also, before investing more money, I hope you've tested the product using different people and MINIs. You want to have between 5 to 10 prototypes and let people in different climates test the product--to ensure the design works well in all conditions by all sorts of people.

For instance, I like to wear driving gloves in my MINI. Can I operate the shade with them on?

The concern about it potentially dropping on somebody's head--I never would have thought that as a possibility, but apparently it's a concern, how about letting others prove that it won't indeed drop on their heads. Nobody will use your invention the way you do.

 

Its not likely patentable. Prior art is very broad. To use an example from my time at a patent law firm as an intern:

We had a guy who had a machien to bag potato chips that he wanted to patent. It was ruled prior art b/c of an existing patent for a sausage stuffing machine (they used similar heat sealing elements). The fact that this screen is for a MINI is irrelevant. Unless the clips attach in a novel way (which is unlikely, give that they are made out of off the shelf components), its doubtful that this is patentable.

However, b/c the market is small enough, its doubftul that you will even need a patent. If you are the first to market such a device, nobody else will want to enter the market to compete with you is my guess. I'd do what octane guy suggested, and get a batch made, try selling them. Depending on how well they sell, you have evidence as to how well it would go over if produced in a larger batch, something an outside investor will surely want to know. The patent pending idea isn't a bad one either.

 

Well, in the short time this post has been alive, it's become blatantly obvious that there is certainly a market for an opaque sunroof shade for all generations of Minis.

As such, it seems certain that some enterprising (hungry?) young soul (with connections?) will get around to developing and marketing a shade for us.

I'd say by this time next year someone will have one on the market.

My .02 cents...

I'm ready to place my order now..

 

well. if nothing is out by the time I get my MINI I'm just going to go buy some fabric and a couple snaps or velcro and make my own. Then when I leave my car I can roll it out, and when I want it open I will roll it up again.

 

I had that same thought.

We also work with a guy who does some wonderful work with boat and car upholstery. I figured that once I get the Mini I'll run it by and see what he may be able to do for me. If it's anything promising I'll make a thread on this forum.

 

Good luck.

I would have bought one in a heartbeat. The sunroof was one of my biggest gripes about the MINI.

 

Everyone wants the sunroof but no one wants the sun. Poor sun. I still love you, I just have to wear SPF 40 when we hang out together.

Just think, if not for the sunroof my interior would not have had a bath yesterday.

 

Hey....thanks for all the replies.

As to a question earlier about the shade, let me clarify. Yes, the shade does not prevent you from opening the glass as normal...when not in use, it rolls up to basically nothing and stays put, allowing the glass to be opened and closed, and allows the mesh shade to be pulled across, or not. The shade is a springloaded roll-up that always stays taut....and it has a name:

the "MINI MAXI-SHADE"

(note..I edited the original post to make this clarification)

The only car it has been in consistantly is mine....the two other protoypes have been sent out to all the major aftermarket companies that deal with interior items, as well as a bunch of the smaller aftermarket companies....so the shade has been checked out, presumably, by these engineer-types. I have also described, in a limited fashion to the MINI/BMW regional rep who said if one worked as i have described it, then MINI could sanction it going 'OEM' allowing it to be sold at the dealers....and a few of the aftermarket companies told me that if a supply of these were furninshed, then they would agree to sell them.

But alas, the general consensus is that the start-up costs, the liability insurance, etc would all be prohibitve, coupled with the fact that it really is a limited market....I'm figuring that if only 150,000 MINI's are out there, if 1/2 have sunroofs, and 1/2 of those feel there is a glare/heat problem, and half of those are bothered enough to buy my product, say at $75....then even with a half way decent profit/unit, there still is not a zillion bucks to be made, taking into account the start-up and insurance to make a company jump at pursuing this.....what I want to do is sell my idea to a company and let them run with it and let them worry about the liability insurance ....my cousin who is a patent attourney was giving my the ******* describing various ways that this could cause a major lawsuit.

So, me being your local friendly optometrist, and not into manufacturing at all, I do not want to get involved making a hundred, or a thousand of these in my garage, or worry about lawsuits....BUT...if some manufacturer out there wants to talk to me, I'm willing to listen to offers (but not holding my breath)

As to the pitfalls I ran into:....originally, the shade was vinyl, which looked better, it worked fine until the first hot day, then it got all tacky and did not work smoothly....then it got real hot and the plastic latch melted and I had to choose a different material....have gone through various designs on the latch until my latest and final design that does not affect the latch of the mesh shade when that is closed.

Well, keep the replies coming as if there are eventually a million replies, some manufacturer's ears will perk up

 

Just out of curiosity, why would liability insurance be so much for a sunroof shade???

 

ohhh, well, maybe you're turning a corner and the shade falls on your head and you lose control and run into a group of school children....stuff like that....my lawyer cousin gave me a few examples like that

 

What would be involved in changing the material on the factory shade to something without holes?
Or much, much smaller ones?

 

All good points, umberto. But, I could see where a company already making after market accessories would be interested (I HOPE)> I mean, the same logic about cost/demand could be said for the glove box organizer, stubby antenna, etc..... I hope you are able to work something out.

 

Hmmm, interesting idea. I might have to experiment with that when my MINI gets here.

 

1. I would buy a set if they were to become available for the R56,

2. As a stop gap solution I went to Walmart and bought one of those fold up silver cheap sunscreens for $2.88. I cut the first three fold off each end. They are just about the right size for each, the front and back. I only use them when it's really hot and I have to park the car in the sun.. I just slide each one between the mesh and the roof. Yes, it's a bit of a PITA but on steamy days I tilt the roof, crack the windows and with the shades slide in it helps a lot.

 

"
what sort of manufacturing capability do you need? What part do you need help manufacturing? If its just plastic molding, send me a PM, I might be able to help you do it on your own, its not that hard to do. "

well, the brackets and clips are metal, as well as the latch prong( my plastic one melted from the heat of the sun)...the handle is plastic

also, I made a shade only for the front larger sunroof...the smaller rear one, since the glass does not open would be fine with one of those stuff in things, although my same desgn would work in that rear sunroof as well