The Clubman has a longer wheel base than the Coupe so it will handle a bit differently... not worse or better necessarily, just different. I think handling might be the biggest difference. I have heard some say that the Clubman handles "less like a go kart" than the coupe but that is just one opinion. Drive them both a bit on a good twisty road and see what you think.

 

Cars only have capabilities limited by the driver. An HPDE you get all types; newbs, skilled, professional. Nothing against orange, thats great he pushes the envelope. But, how many of those cars passed were being driven by the student vs. the instructor? If anything, one could only compare student vs. instructor in the same car. Its education.

 

Great.. that is what I thought you meant but wanted to see you spell it out on this thread. Lots of variables here. I also wonder a bit about the "lightning laps" that Car & Driver just featured. They write it up like the times are gospel but wonder about the drivers, number of laps driven, tires, etc... but does make interesting reading.

Sorry... just a bit off topic.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2009-feature

 

I don't agree... the classes are setup by driver experience so the blue drivers are competing against other blue drivers, not a white driver against an instructor.

The drivers in each color group are about the same level... thus the reason for having different skill levels.

I agree, if you took a professional driver against another with the only difference being cars, the superior car would shine through... (IMO, the porsche would kick the mini's azz all day long)

Having said that, we can only compare what we drive on the track we are on. We're NOT professionals, we're simply spirited drivers driving against other spirited drivers with roughly the same skill level.

I was merely pointing out that the Mini earns it's respect for the car that it is FOR WHAT IT IS....

Just my .02 worth...

Mark

 

Coming from a 2003 M3 and a 2006 Z4... I am glad I have more cargo options with the JCW. The Z4 was definitely limited in what you can carry and I can load up the JCW with all sorts of stuff. I think the Elise would be fun but not as much fun as the JCW for a daily driver.

 

Mark, can tell if that's the 'finger', fist or a wave?

That spoiler's gotta factor into your track success

 

It must be the spoiler !!

Hey, just noticed, this is my 300th post... yippee!

 

Still slightly ahead of you bud!

 

I'm pretty sure it was a 1 finger salute....

Seriously, he was a buddy of mine and has a JCW. His and my driving skill are about the same and his GT3 Porsche was new to him so I'm sure once he gets used to it, I'm history...

Mark

 

no offense taken - why would i? i would be interested in tracking? (is that what you call it) the car but work committments at current do not allow such

interesting how a lot of us have stepped from more expensive (and percievably better) cars into JCWs. I wonder why...

On that note i am contemplating selling my Boxster 987 S as it is rarely driven and when it is it feels like ive lost something

 

well great yall have convinced me that a JCW needs to be in my life. However, whether it is a Clubman or Hardtop i have know idea. I like the functionality of the Clubman but don't want to sacrifice any handling or speed.

 

go test drive both of them! Goog luck with your decision! You should be happy either way!

 

I assure you that you won't be sacrificing either going from a hardtop to a clubman.

When I was on my 3rd mini, I actually was on my way to the dealer to buy a clubman.

When I pulled in the driveway driving a coupe, my wife knew I just liked the look of the mini....

Of course, that was still yet another mini ago.


Mark

 

Well if you'd like to know, I'll do my best to explain it myself. Just turned an R56 HB JCW loaner that I've had for almost 2 weeks, and put over 1,000 miles on it including hwy driving, snow, ice, dry roads, twisties, etc. I also own a R55 Clubbie JCW, and have thrown a few mods at it, including suspension.

I will say first off, yes the Clubbie very much DOES take away the gokart feel due to the shorter wheelbase. The Clubbie is also 188lbs heavier according to MINI, and being that these cars are supposed to be indentical from the front seats forward, that added 188lbs has to be in the rear... and I can feel it.

The R56 HB, say in the snow, could easily be kicked out into a slide for a nice FWD style drift with the lighter rear end. The Clubbie actually has to be going faster to get the longer, heavier rear end to kick around. Characteristically how this translated into the dry road, other than feeling that extra weight, the HB felt like the rear end just followed along right where the front was going with good feel this side of just tromping on the gas and pushing the front end through the corner creating a lot of understeer, then letting off the gas, and dare you hit the brake, serious oversteer.

The R55 Clubman can easily be pushed into the corner creating the the understeer, but I have yet to ever get the rear end in mid corner from slowing down, or even braking. The feel of the rear end tracking true with the front end like on the HB just isn't there, also giving me the feeling I was dragging the rear end around a corner.

What I was curious and anxious to find out is how I would like the handling and cruising of the shorter wheelbase of the HB on the highway. Characteristically, a longer wheelbase is more stable at straight line speed, so I was wondering if I was going to be feeling like I was wondering in my lane at times. Honestly, it wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be, with almost no telling of a difference.

IMO, the short wheelbase and the characteristics you get with that, and the lighter rear end make up a better "MINI" experience, and in reality, more fun to drive. The Clubman is still a force to be reckoned with, but the wheelbase is more like, say what you'd get out of other 2 door compact cars out there today. (Comparison: R56=97", R55=100", Chevy Cobalt=103")

I'm a bit curious to see what kinda weight I can shed from the rear of my Clubbie to take the weight factor out of the equation, and just see what the difference in wheelbase is like.

Again, these are both JCW's! And I'm no editor or writer, so sorry for the lack of more official track terms. This road course stuff is personally a little new, more of a drag racer myself.

 

I would think the added weight in the rear would make the clubman more nimble in the corners. In the R56, I can totally tell all the weight is up front causing a lot of understeer.

This is my first fwd car, so I should probably stop driving it like it's rwd. I don't know what it is, but the car feels weird when you're powering through a corner. I don't know how to explain it, but the car kind of pulsates and the power is non-linear. Must be the EDLC or something, but you seem to lose traction as you're gassing through the turn. I feel like braking mid-turn actually improves handling rather than powering through it.

 

I gotta say... if you can drive a car and tell that it's 3" longer in the wheelbase, you're a far more experienced driver than I.

I've driven a clubbie and couldn't tell a difference. Perhaps I didn't drive it long enough (like your 2 weeks to compare) but I thought the clubbie handled the same.

Mark

 

Clubmans remind me of the Griswalds and the Brady bunch

 

I can definitely tell the difference. It may be more so the added weight, but it's there to me. Yet, if nothing else, get in them both, cut the wheel all the way in one direction, and do circles. Or just try to get into tight spots in a tight parking lot.

 

Powering through a corner in a FWD car usually will just cause understeer. Letting off the gas, or tapping the brakes will put it back in check usually. RWD car will usually cause oversteer, making the tail want to come out. All depends on the car really.

The added weight in the rear actually does keep the rear end more planted, but more than you'd want IMO.

Even my girlfriend who has an automatic R57 (which is actually heavier than even my Clubman, but same wheelbase as HB) could tell the loss in weight almost instantly driving off in the R56 JCW. Then when I tapped the e-brake around a snowy corner, it just swung around so gracefully making me look like I knew what I was doing, lol. The added fun factor the R56 gave me, she said it was more down my alley then the Clubman. Little late now, but I don't regret the Clubman. I can use the room when hauling around gear.

 

I don't doubt you, I'm just saying you must be more sensitive than I. Like I said, you also had 2 weeks to drive where mine was a few test drives.

I guess 3" must make a difference.... my ex-wife used to tell me that an inch makes all the difference so I can't imagine what 3 times that amount must do.

Go figure.


Mark

 

ahhahaha, wow this is great information. thanks for everyones input and thanks lilred for the comparison, thats exactly the feedback i needed.

 

I take it that means you have settled on the additional 3 inches. But I've always been told that it's how you use it that counts.

 

No problem, but you should just go drive them yourself and see how it feels to you.

 

As of now i think i am gonna go for the JCW hardtop.I will test drive both if i get the chance though. I just feel that the classic style of the hardtop is one that i wouldn't mind keeping for awhile if not forever whereas the clubman i may get tired of the lines of it.

 

LilRed1 I see you are selling your Alta turboback exhaust. Did you get a check engine light on your JCW? Can you just install the louder end tips or is it installed as a whole system?