Tires definitely make a difference. Not familiar with the P7s, but I definitely noticed an improvement with the Falken RT660 tires I use on the track. I also noticed that the car is better with the Continental DW tires (older version of one of their current tires) that I use for a street tire. This is all in comparison to the really crap-tastic Hankook AS RFTs that came on the car.

I know a lot of people like the Michelin PS4S (hope I got that right) for the MINI. Definitely a tire on top of my list.

One thing that I noticed after my last track event with the car is that the car was even better than it ever has been. That was with the tires worn down to the wear bars. I wonder if the tread pattern on the tires influences this issue?

Another thing I have noticed is that, when the car is heavily loaded with gear for a track event, it tracks (RTC) better. I know the camber in the rear changes (increases) when the suspension is compressed. I am guessing the toe-in also changes and would guess that it changes to be more toe-in. This is another thing I wonder about. That is, I wonder if this issue is related to the rear suspension alignment. ... Could it do with a touch more toe-in? Don’t know.

 

It malkes a whole lot of sense. I am thinking of experimenting with alignment, but got confused about the angle i should aim. I want it slightly more lively/responsive to steering, should i go for toe in or out?

 

With 2 supposedly same cars with just a difference in tires, that is where I would start. A higher performance tire will improve steering response. There could be differences in alignment and alignment/steering setting procedures discussed earlier in this thread that might make a difference. A little less toe-in in the front, but too little or even toe-out will cause the car to wander in a straight line.

Toe-in for the rear tires is important for the car’s stability. That is, not wanting to swap ends. My comment above about the rear toe had more to do with the issue of this thread... Return to center of the steering wheel. I think for some that could also translate into a dull on center feel to the steering or a tendency for the car to wander. For me it seemed that with load in the car and with less tire tread, these issues were reduced or went away. Part of what I was speculating was that the change in rear suspension geometry with load may have helped. This might have included an increase in the rear toe-in. However, with respect to your question, I am not sure that increase toe-in in the rear would help. Nor, would decreasing the rear toe-in as “sharpness” of steering response would be from the front of the car.

 

Check the tire pressure and alignment (dealer charged me $150). There's a pic of my alignment specs on this thread plus lot's a folks here that can "steer you" in the right direction as to what those numbers mean.

 

I had a 2015 MCS. I felt turning or changing lanes became less responsive/sharp after I switched from Pirelli P7 to Michelin PS4. Maybe the sharpness is the benefit of the stiff sidewall of RFT after all. I know Dunlop Sportmaxx is also RFT. But if I am not mistaken, Dunlop Sportmaxx is summer tire and P7 is All-Season tire which might have a stiffer sidewall. You probably don't have the luxury of trying a set of P7 tires. Perhaps just add 2-3 PSI to the front tires and see if it makes any difference.

 

I now own a GP3 along with the JCW. The GP3 RTC is a world apart from the JCW i.e. steering wheel whips right back to center and you feel when your in a corner thru the wheel.
I don't know what the alignment specs are?
Does anyone know if the steering rack is different for the same model year GP vs JCW, or control arms etc.?

 

Are you friendly with your your dealership? If you are you could likely go and ask them for a printout or the alignment specs for each car.

Back when the GP3 was about to hit the market, there was an active thread about the car. There was a lot of information in that thread about the changes that were made to the F56 to make it into the GP. I don’t remember the details, but I seem to remember that the steering knuckle is different and something was done to push the wheels outboard more than the JCW. You could dig up that “old” thread and see if there is any insight in there.

It would be interesting to see the differences listed out in one place. As for tracking and steering returning to center, I recently increased the camber and caster on my R56. The camber went from about -15deg to -3 and the caster increased by about 0.5. This car tracks like it is on rails. The on center feel is strong and it has no wander when going straight. I would say it is the same as your description of how your GP feels. I would guess that your GP has more camber and caster as compared the JCW.

I know Charlie Thompson increased the caster (added abiout 0.5 deg) and camber (from spec to about -2.0deg) on his F56 JCW and loves the car. I suspect he likes the on center feel, but he has not said that specifically.

Sorry not much help, just some thoughts on the subject

 

Have you managed to get this sorted out?

I have a 2 week old JCW 3 door and I think I am having this problem. After turning either way the return to centre is slow. After a full lock you have to manually pull to centre to come out of the steer quickly enough. When doing say 40 mph on straight road a nudge of the wheel left or right doesn’t recentre at all and you have to continually readjust. Just feels “sticky”.

In 40 years of driving I have never had any car do this with self centring always snapping back quickly. I can’t believe this is normal especially in this type of car and reviews have never reported it. I did’t test drive a similar car so can’t compare but are hoping to try one at the dealer to compare.

 

are your tires inflated? seasonal temperature change happened a couple weeks ago for me - i was driving nearly 10 psi below my summer pressures for a week before i realized! slow steering, bad braking… all alleviated with proper pressures!

 

First post!

Welcome to NAM.

And congrats on the new MINI.

Not sure if you’ve had a chance to read this whole thread, but the self-centering issue seems to be a thing with these. Not sure if it just the JCW or if it is all of the Gen 3 Coopers (base, S and JCW), but it is notable at least in some of the JCWs.

I test drove my JCW before I bought and didn’t notice this issue. But did notice it after having it a few days. Changing tires helped a lot. The stock, OEM, Hankook RFT tires are horrible. I replaced them with Continental summer performance tire. Big improvement. If you test drive another JCW, make sure to note the tires that it has on it as these came with differs tires. Also note the tire pressure on the center screen. This way you can compare to yours.

I have also noticed that over time this issue has much improved. I now have about 18k miles on my JCW and this issue has gotten better. Not sure why.

As for tire pressure, it is recommended to be 43 psi, which is ludicrous. 36 psi all around is reasonable. There may be some improvement with that pressure.

This may also be a bit of a “BMW” thing (seem to remember something about that). I doubt there is anything “wrong” with your car. Hope you figure it out to your satisfaction.

 

I set them after I got the car to that specified on the label in the car when cold: 41 front and 33 rear for 17 inch Non run flat (pzero). The dealer had set them to 48 front and 41 rear which were for a W speed rating and max load.

I was thinking of having alignment checked and EPS steering reprogrammed first and then if that doesn’t improve checking for any stiffness in steering system.

 

funny, i always get my car back from the dealer with my tires set way way too high for what’s on my door card and was wondering what the explanation might be. i thought maybe their gauge was just out of whack!

 

I am hoping that driving some different cars from the dealer that I can determine whether this is common for these cars. From what you are saying this might turn out to be the case unfortunately. I am expecting though that some cars may be worse than others.

I really didn’t expect to have to do this with a new car at this price point, and especially as no reviews have mentioned this steering behaviour. For me, steering is probably the most interactive and important part of the experience and if I had test driven this particular car would not have bought it. It’s a shame because every other aspect is really good.

 

I agree with you about steering. I test drove a few F56 (many loaners) and they all seemed to be slow to return to center, you have to manually straighten the car after a turn. I now own a GP3 (and the 2018 JCW). The GP returns to center much better, especially at 40 mph, feels like a different car. Wished the JCW reacted the same way.

 

Not sure if it was on this thread that said the steering components on the GP3 were different (knuckle?) that may have made it centre quicker.

I still can’t believe this is “normal” for a car that is meant to be sporty, with quick responses and that so called “Go Kart” feel!! I like the steering weight but at times it feels like steering through treacle or driving a much heavier lazier vehicle!

 

I believe so, the knuckle & rack part numbers are different, bushings are stiffer too. I ranted on some older threads about the lack of steering feel in modern cars. Do you have any suspension mod's? I can tell you that I was very happy with the JCW Pro coilover kit, even if the steering feel is dull the car responded quicker to input.

 

It is interesting that up until now, with the Gen 3 MINI, BMW/MINI has never been interested in tire load rating and tire pressure. The sticker for my R56S with 205x45-17” wheels is 36 psi and for our R50 with 15” wheels is 31 psi. In fact they listed different pressure for different loads (2 vs 4 people) and speeds (>100, <100). The new pressures make no sense compared to previous the previous Gen MINIs. Functionally there is no reason to inflate a tire to its maximum load and speed rating (W is 168 mph) if that is not what you are doing. In a MINI going much over 36 psi makes for poorer handling and ride. Raising pressures above this only benefits gas mileage, which would be my guess as to why MINI/BMW raised the pressure.

 

My car has PZero 205,45 R17 Y rating non fun flat. I set what was shown on the sticker on the door for minimum load. (41fr, 33 rear). Is 41fr still too high?

On my previous car a Seat Leon Cupra the door label said 41 but was recommended to have 34psi all round and was much better (Michelin ps4s as well though)

 

Here is what Car & Driver has to say about the Gen 3 JCW and the tire pressures… (link)

Others and I run 34-36 psi all of the way around with a performance summer tire for the street, set cold as that is easiest. For the track I run a 200TW tire (currently the Falken 660) and set the max pressure, hot, at 38 psi or lower; cold is about 28 to 34psi depending on location on the car and the predominant direction of the turns on the track. Above that hot pressure the tires become greasy.

Remember, if you set the tire pressure lower (eg: 36 psi) and don’t like it, you can always raise it back up. The thing is, I have never seen tire damage (no pot holes, please) with tires at this pressure or lower, so you have nothing to lose by trying it.

As I have noted, the higher performance tires I have put on it have improve the on center feel from the OEM tires. The PZeros should be pretty good in that respect. But on the highway my JCW still doesn’t have the “I can take my hands off the steering wheel and trust that it will continue to track straight” feeling that my R56 or R50 MINIs have. However, on my favorite twisty road, briskly driven, the JCW is a charmer to drive and the go kart feel is there.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the info. I will tweak tire pressures once I have got the steering self centring issue sorted out.

I was reading a review earlier that said the self centring was aggressive in the F56 which still leads me to believe there is an issue with my car.

 

Ok, just to update you on my steering self centring issue with the JCW . I drove a 6 month old Cooper S from the main dealer and found that it was very similar in behaviour to mine. i.e. slow self centring on corner exit and in straight line nudging left or right continues in that direction.

The sales people who I spoke to said they have never noticed any issue with the way they drive and put it down to them being used to the way Minis drive and I am not!

I am at a loss now as to what to do next. I can put a complaint in to Mini but not sure what that is going to achieve.

I am still thinking there could be a EPS software issue with the newer cars that could sort this out.

 

I have a 2017 Cooper S, been driving it now for almost 30k miles (purchased at 72k miles, only one prior owner), and have noticed exactly what your second sentence describes since day one. As others have noted, tires make a big difference, and alignment makes a big difference, but even messing with all that is an exercise (IMO) in compensating for the fundamental behavior you describe. With my other vehicle, a 28-year-old not-fancy-not-high-end-not-MINI, I don't even have to think about all this.

Just chiming in to second that you are not out of your mind, it's real

 

Stay tuned I'm going to try and make a video of the GP3 vs JCW.

 

Mike - do you happen to know (and can list) the differences in the alignment between the 2 cars? Caster, camber, toe, etc. Also track width front and rear.

Edit…
I found your post with the alignment for the JCW… link
do you have one for the GP?

 

I have JCW alignment info from sept 20 and June 22 on this thread. Haven't done one on the GP3. Maybe someone that's had an alignment done on a GP3 can chime in?