F55/F56 Mini Cooper gas mileage overstated, U.S. regulator says
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
I don't know their test requirements; but, my real world experience is 26-33 in the city and 36-40 hwy. The higher mileage is whether in green mode or mid mode. Don't use sport too much. I may just do so though to see what the result is going to be.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 193
Likes: 1
Gasoline is purchased for only one reason: Fuel for internal combustion engines. Not any other reason. Well, I guess you could buy it for cleaning parts or burning a house down but there other, cheaper alternatives for someone who wants to do that. We could safely say that 99.99% of folks who purchase a tankful of guess are doing that to power their automobile, right?
However, how many of us decided to purchase our Minis for only one reason? Out of the many, MANY criteria we could use to make a decision with.
Did Mini lie to all of us about this? No idea, though it's a possibility. Did they make an honest mis-calculation? Also a possibility. So, if this discrepancy is that big of a deal to you, what are you going to do about it? Return the car? Sell the car? Or?....
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Western Canada
I find this thread and topic very interesting as I read and re-read posts. I have been in and around the MINI brand since its reintroduction to the US Market in 2002. I have owned several and enjoy the driving experience, the quirkiness and the community very much. For me, and most if not all early adopters, these were the primary factors for purchasing the vehicle. The MINI brand has never really strayed from that recipe - sure, the versions get a little bit bigger with each redesign and include more safety features, power and tech each time around, but the core remains the same regardless of what folks post. That is a testament to the brand's philosophy and mindset.
Sadly, though in a way, the brand is growing and attracting a larger demographic capturing folks from markets it never ventured in before. The end result is a double-edged sword of attracting many new owners who would have never considered MINI, as well as owners who know nothing about the heritage of the brand and care only about size (for parking), fuel economy and/or safety. The MINI was never envisioned to be an economy car, but a premium driver's car that happens to offer good fuel economy. It didn't initially have "competitors", and folks who purchased them were not cross-shopping the vehicle with cars like the Honda Civic, Toyota Prius or even the VW Golf. However, 12 years later the US market has changed and there is now a whole segment of fun little frugal cars like the Fiat Abarth and Ford Fiesta ST and vehicles like the Prius C, Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are more popular and folks are cross-shopping more than ever in this segment.
I am not trying to come down on anyone posting here, just trying to understand the thought process. With Hyundai a few years ago, they intentionally overstated the highway MPG figures on MANY models to achieve the claim of having the most models with 40mpg or greater on the freeway. The fact that this wasn't true and disputed as well as false advertising in a grand scheme led to a huge series of fines and ultimately a "settlement" to the consumer. It's a bit apples and oranges to the MINI situation.
However, those who feel like MINI screwed them, mislead them, lied to them, or duped them into buying the product, will certainly try and go after the company and good luck to you fine folks. The rest of us will enjoy our well-engineered and fun to drive British icons with a big smile on our face knowing we are getting pretty good fuel economy as well. A nice trade off.
Sadly, though in a way, the brand is growing and attracting a larger demographic capturing folks from markets it never ventured in before. The end result is a double-edged sword of attracting many new owners who would have never considered MINI, as well as owners who know nothing about the heritage of the brand and care only about size (for parking), fuel economy and/or safety. The MINI was never envisioned to be an economy car, but a premium driver's car that happens to offer good fuel economy. It didn't initially have "competitors", and folks who purchased them were not cross-shopping the vehicle with cars like the Honda Civic, Toyota Prius or even the VW Golf. However, 12 years later the US market has changed and there is now a whole segment of fun little frugal cars like the Fiat Abarth and Ford Fiesta ST and vehicles like the Prius C, Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are more popular and folks are cross-shopping more than ever in this segment.
I am not trying to come down on anyone posting here, just trying to understand the thought process. With Hyundai a few years ago, they intentionally overstated the highway MPG figures on MANY models to achieve the claim of having the most models with 40mpg or greater on the freeway. The fact that this wasn't true and disputed as well as false advertising in a grand scheme led to a huge series of fines and ultimately a "settlement" to the consumer. It's a bit apples and oranges to the MINI situation.
However, those who feel like MINI screwed them, mislead them, lied to them, or duped them into buying the product, will certainly try and go after the company and good luck to you fine folks. The rest of us will enjoy our well-engineered and fun to drive British icons with a big smile on our face knowing we are getting pretty good fuel economy as well. A nice trade off.
Very well stated.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,319
Likes: 94
From: Tsunami Zone
Who buys a Cooper S for it's gas mileage
BTW ... I've gotten as high as 35 MPG in my 2002 MCS on the highway, so you should be able to get more than this in the F56 MCS.
Last edited by MINIAC; Oct 23, 2014 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Correct typo
1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
It's my understanding that EPA changed the way testing is done this year so MINI had to go back and re-test. EPA also made MINI lump the 2 door and 4 door into the same category.
Where is the proof that MINI intentionally overstated?
Where is the proof that MINI intentionally overstated?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
I think much of the concern over this issue is Mini's history with its customers.
There are a substantial number of long time members here who have grown to distrust Mini and BMW because of repeated widespread problems with the cars (such as the power steering pumps on the Gen 1 cars, the Countryman clutches, the death rattle on the Gen 2 cars). It's not as much as that there were problems with the cars, as what BMW did about it...or actually what they did not do, such as quietly re-designing the clutch on the Countryman and at the same time telling owners of earlier cars that they caused the problem, or offering to pay for new power steering pumps on the Gen 1 cars only after the Canadian government forced a recall and it was obvious the Feds were coming after them. If you are not familiar with this, it's all there on the older threads and not difficult to find.
So when you hear about the gas mileage being overstated, you can't help but wonder if it was on purpose. Personally I think they would not be stupid enough to think they could get away with it, and that the story simply is that someone screwed up. But if some of the newer forum members sense that the some of us have somewhat negative attitudes, I thought it would be worth mentioning where a significant amount of it is derived from.
There are a substantial number of long time members here who have grown to distrust Mini and BMW because of repeated widespread problems with the cars (such as the power steering pumps on the Gen 1 cars, the Countryman clutches, the death rattle on the Gen 2 cars). It's not as much as that there were problems with the cars, as what BMW did about it...or actually what they did not do, such as quietly re-designing the clutch on the Countryman and at the same time telling owners of earlier cars that they caused the problem, or offering to pay for new power steering pumps on the Gen 1 cars only after the Canadian government forced a recall and it was obvious the Feds were coming after them. If you are not familiar with this, it's all there on the older threads and not difficult to find.
So when you hear about the gas mileage being overstated, you can't help but wonder if it was on purpose. Personally I think they would not be stupid enough to think they could get away with it, and that the story simply is that someone screwed up. But if some of the newer forum members sense that the some of us have somewhat negative attitudes, I thought it would be worth mentioning where a significant amount of it is derived from.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 520
Likes: 4
From: Tigard, OR
From MotoringFile ...
There's a difference of 1 MPG for combined and city driving ... some people need to get a grip
There's a difference of 1 MPG for combined and city driving ... some people need to get a grip
F56 2014: 29 mpg city / 34 mpg combined / 41 mpg highway
And what EPA found out on the 2015 model:
F56 2015: 28 mpg city / 31 mpg combined / 37 mpg highway
That is 10% lower on combined mileage, and even more on the highway numbers.
Hyundai was advertising 40mpg highway, and after the truth, they lowered it to 39mpg highway and was fined and punished with settlements.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 328
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
For the most part I've really enjoyed the two that I've owned and agree they are well engineered and fun to drive. I'm thinking of buying a third and that's why I'm on this section of the forum. They just need to be more careful about the manufacturing process (the latest owner survey data regarding needed repairs from JD Power still shows them at the bottom) as well as running the mileage tests
Of course failed power steering pumps, CVT transmissions issues, timing chain tensioners/chain guides, carbon buildup, AISIN transmissions issues, etc are also to blame for poor quality scores. But JD Power only surveys owners within the first 3-4 months of ownership, so those items would not show up there.
I wouldn't hesitate buying a newer generation MINI. The first year of a redesign (or two) is usually filled with adjustments and other "learn as you go" situations, but so far they appear to be higher in quality and workmanship than the 2nd Gen, at least out of the gate. As much as I like the R5x models, the Prince engine kind of scares me. I constantly hear from my friend in Germany who owns a Peugeot 206 with the same motor and it has been a nightmare for him
Plus, I am sucker for all the new tech and the interior improvements of the F5x models. Go for it!
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 32
Likes: 2
That's probably the revised numbers for the 2014 models. Last time I checked, when I made the decision to purchase the MINI 2015 F56 automatic, these were the numbers for 2014, and 2015 numbers were TBD.
F56 2014: 29 mpg city / 34 mpg combined / 41 mpg highway
And what EPA found out on the 2015 model:
F56 2015: 28 mpg city / 31 mpg combined / 37 mpg highway
That is 10% lower on combined mileage, and even more on the highway numbers.
Hyundai was advertising 40mpg highway, and after the truth, they lowered it to 39mpg highway and was fined and punished with settlements.
F56 2014: 29 mpg city / 34 mpg combined / 41 mpg highway
And what EPA found out on the 2015 model:
F56 2015: 28 mpg city / 31 mpg combined / 37 mpg highway
That is 10% lower on combined mileage, and even more on the highway numbers.
Hyundai was advertising 40mpg highway, and after the truth, they lowered it to 39mpg highway and was fined and punished with settlements.
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
It speaks volumes about this country that you think this is OK. Personally I drive 90 miles a day for work, all highway. 4mpg is a big deal for me and was a factor when choosing this car. Im not extremely upset and the money lost still isn't a fortune or anything, but I would still expect mini to make things right for this error. My mpg has been right around 34-35 highway which does correlate with the epa testing. I've been wondering what I've been doin wrong but apparently nothing...
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California
It speaks volumes about this country that you think this is OK. Personally I drive 90 miles a day for work, all highway. 4mpg is a big deal for me and was a factor when choosing this car. Im not extremely upset and the money lost still isn't a fortune or anything, but I would still expect mini to make things right for this error. My mpg has been right around 34-35 highway which does correlate with the epa testing. I've been wondering what I've been doin wrong but apparently nothing...
I'm getting 37-38 in my Cooper S...as with anything, Your mileage may vary...
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
The JD Power situation is a very interesting one. I have recently been involved in a study which may result in some major revisions to the survey and how the data is collected and reported. MINI, especially, is a unique brand with unique features. And obviously, if you have owned one, you know that they are not the most perfectly constructed and held together vehicles. However, what you may not know is that a customer complaining on a JD Power survey that the central toggle window switch on an R5x model is hard to find shows as a defect on the survey and impacts negatively on the brand. This also goes for things like the seat back angle adjustment levers on the inside edge of the seat, Countryman center rail accessories, F56 hood release (x2), etc. MINI gets killed with the things that make them MINI, tragically. Believe it or not, most of the design changes (speedo location, window switches to the door, door lock button on the door) are a result of the poor survey responses.
Of course failed power steering pumps, CVT transmissions issues, timing chain tensioners/chain guides, carbon buildup, AISIN transmissions issues, etc are also to blame for poor quality scores. But JD Power only surveys owners within the first 3-4 months of ownership, so those items would not show up there.
I wouldn't hesitate buying a newer generation MINI. The first year of a redesign (or two) is usually filled with adjustments and other "learn as you go" situations, but so far they appear to be higher in quality and workmanship than the 2nd Gen, at least out of the gate. As much as I like the R5x models, the Prince engine kind of scares me. I constantly hear from my friend in Germany who owns a Peugeot 206 with the same motor and it has been a nightmare for him Plus, I am sucker for all the new tech and the interior improvements of the F5x models. Go for it!
Of course failed power steering pumps, CVT transmissions issues, timing chain tensioners/chain guides, carbon buildup, AISIN transmissions issues, etc are also to blame for poor quality scores. But JD Power only surveys owners within the first 3-4 months of ownership, so those items would not show up there.
I wouldn't hesitate buying a newer generation MINI. The first year of a redesign (or two) is usually filled with adjustments and other "learn as you go" situations, but so far they appear to be higher in quality and workmanship than the 2nd Gen, at least out of the gate. As much as I like the R5x models, the Prince engine kind of scares me. I constantly hear from my friend in Germany who owns a Peugeot 206 with the same motor and it has been a nightmare for him
Plus, I am sucker for all the new tech and the interior improvements of the F5x models. Go for it!Last edited by Hogan3; Oct 24, 2014 at 02:56 AM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 100
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
simply because it would be the right thing to do, even if they failed to do so the last time. I agree that if most S buyers had known the correct mileage, their decision to buy the car would not have been any different, but for base owners one would think that there would've been some that would've made a different decision. IMHO there's a credibility issue here.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 654
Likes: 3
about a decade or so hyundai got hit for overstating their HP figures.. few years ago they got hit for overstating their MPG figures. it's insane what consumers accept... especially the ones who already own the car. it's not going to hit your wallet, impact how you enjoy your car, or even really sales. it's the principle. he said it himself, there's basically nothing you can do about it - and that's the problem. come on everyone.. just shut up and take whatever mini tells you, move along.
So let's see, let's say you get 10% less mileage on the whole to make things easier.
Old data
38mpg - 13 gallon tank = range of 494 miles
Let's say gas is $3/gallon so each tank cost $39
So each mile is costing you roughly 8 cents
New data
34mpg - 13 gallon tank = new range of 442 miles
Now each mile is costing you roughly 9 cents
So you're losing about 52 miles off every tank, for a total difference of about 13 cents per tank. If I did everything right.
Old data
38mpg - 13 gallon tank = range of 494 miles
Let's say gas is $3/gallon so each tank cost $39
So each mile is costing you roughly 8 cents
New data
34mpg - 13 gallon tank = new range of 442 miles
Now each mile is costing you roughly 9 cents
So you're losing about 52 miles off every tank, for a total difference of about 13 cents per tank. If I did everything right.
Last edited by VicSkimmr; Oct 24, 2014 at 08:56 AM.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 328
Likes: 3
From: Illinois
No, you are referring to a different JD power study, the one where they ask people what they like and dislike about the car. Actually in that study, the 2014 Hardtop did not come in last.I am referring to the study where they ask owners about the repairs their cars have required, and in that study the 2014 hardtop results were at the bottom. That's what's really troubling. (edited)
Maybe you are referring to Consumer Reports? Not sure what they say as I personally do not place that sort of information high on my list of deciding factors. Although, I am sure that a lot of folks do.
So let's see, let's say you get 10% less mileage on the whole to make things easier.
Old data
38mpg - 13 gallon tank = range of 456 miles
Let's say gas is $3/gallon so each tank cost $39
So each mile is costing you roughly 8 cents
New data
34mpg - 13 gallon tank = new range of 442 miles
Now each mile is costing you roughly 9 cents
Old data
38mpg - 13 gallon tank = range of 456 miles
Let's say gas is $3/gallon so each tank cost $39
So each mile is costing you roughly 8 cents
New data
34mpg - 13 gallon tank = new range of 442 miles
Now each mile is costing you roughly 9 cents
again though, it's not really about the dollars and cents, it's more about the principle