This is definitely true. Honda can do a gearbox as good as anyone.

I want to like the Si more than I do. It's just hard to get excited about. Lacks character. The interior definitely feels dated, like it's trying to hard to be cool and appeal to "millenials" (ugh that word).

 

My nephew just purchased a 2015 WRX STI Limited last week and dropped by wanting me to check it out and drive it, WOW…. it really surprised me and some really serious bang for the buck.

 

At $36,000, I should hope so! Too bad the interior is still so low-rent (plus no longer a hatch!)

 

You may have seen my comment in that article. I said exactly that! I've not read anything but praise for the manual transmission in the F56, and I can include my own test-drives in that assessment. I don't know what they're smoking at MT. No way, no how the aged Civic can best the MINI at ... anything.

There's a lot of doe-eyed love for the Mark VII ... at the moment, but I don't think it will translate into huge sales success for VW. Their packaging/pricing sucks, and much is stripped out from even the Autobahn GTI vs. European models. I wasn't blown-away by my short time inside one, and I have little faith in VW reliability. There's no comparison for me between the Golf and the F56. One denies you choices, and the other offers you every choice available.

 

An interesting article I read in this morning's paper: Rolls Royce sales are up 33% this year compared to last year's figures. Perhaps a shift in wealth has something to say about Mini sales. Something else I learned that some of you might not know is that R.R. parent company is BMW.

 

LOL! Me as well. I learned long ago to take magazine reviews (normally biased) with a grain of salt. MT ranking the 2014 MCS in 4th place (some of the editor comments were laughable) doesn't change the truth about what I feel about my own MCS. I would be foolish to pick a car, any car, based on reviews in MT.

 

Very interesting read and not at all a surprising conclusion from this magazine. Motortrend is basically a big advertising catalogue with a few articles thrown in and I'm very familiar with their biases which seem to fall in line with Car and Driver. I'm surprised a muscle car wasn't thrown into this comparo. It would have won.


Having said that - I am a huge GTI fan, having owned two of the previous generation. It probably deserves to win as it's a great all rounder with ample refinement and blistering road handling. The DSG dual-clutch transmission is exceptional.


But I needed a change, wanted a car that I could customize and above all, wanted to save $$ with the purchase of a new condo imminent. Choosing to buy a Cooper with dynamic chassis control, HK, LED, Nav etc has me saving $ 7-8000! I get my turbo, I get refinement and good torque and driving fun - and money in the bank. It's a win win.
Oh, and the Mini is Euro made, whereas the Golf is Mexican made. That matters to me as I don't like paying European prices for locally made vehicles.
Feeling rather smug

 

The interior does have that typical mid range Toyota, Honda, Nissan plastic feel and the wing on the back is totally over the top , but in terms of bang for the buck for someone on a go fast ride mission for under 40K it would be hard to beat.

 

It's car version of a rice rocket. In 5 years you'll find in slammed with really dark tinted windows bouncing up and down with loud music playing in some ghetto

 

frankly mini owners aren't ones to talk about high quality interiors... just as much cheap hard plastic in the r56 mini as there is in the sti. mini owners can be real snobby i guess lol. our cars aren't anything special jeez

2015 sti:



r56:

 

motor trend is one of the few magazines that i feel like still places a lot of emphasis on driving dynamics and performance. i'm not sure why people are getting upset that it wasn't the best handling or best performing car in the test - it was never designed to be. i haven't seen anyone here emphasize that that was what they were looking for when they got the car. it's just a cute quirky light car with decent handling.

 

Is the STI a Toyota or a Honda? That's a horrible dashboard look. I had one in the 90s that was better. Is that a cassette player, and where's the Dashmat?

 

lol i'd take it over the r56 mini's... and you may be right, but so what? it'll smoke your 90s car and your JCW that's for sure, and that's why people buy them - for outright speed. not to have enormous speedos in the center for the sake of having them... i guess if they were branding themselves as a quality & style brand (like the mini does) this conversation would matter, and obviously we aren't the demographic these cars go for.

you guys sound exactly like what the e46 m3 guys when they started getting owned by these cars lol, as if they needed to "one up" them in some way, any way - except the r56 doesn't even have a good interior to match! so much hard plastic in our cars it's ridiculous. it's all ego and insecurity.

we drive minis, so what! who cares what cars beat what in a performance test... we all got our cars for specific reasons, but i hope interior quality wasn't one of them lol

 

With regards to the core subject of the thread, I think Mini sales are down because the hatch changed a little too much for current Mini owners who in general seem to embrace change in small steps, and the bull dog marketing theme of advertising is a total disconnect outside of the Mini community, and once someone prices the car out with all the new hyped tech in S trim the price value proposition becomes questionable pushing 40K even for hard core Mini enthusiast.

I think if you stick to the more basic cars it works, but in analogy with Mini’s La Carte pricing system it is like going to a trendy cool gourmet burger shop to spend $13.50 and finding out once you ask for it with lettuce, tomato, mustard, mayonnaise, pickles, fries and coke @ $1.50 each it’s a $24.00 burger making the steakhouse next door look really attractive.

We are a good example and Mini enthusiast, my wife loved her R56SA Sport Package and planned on buying a F56S after driving one because her lease was up, but once she priced it out with what she wanted the value proposition was questionable at best. She shopped around and ended up leasing an every option Infiniti S for less than the F56S she wanted a few months back. I ask her the other day if she missed her Mini and liked her Infiniti, she said “I will always like my Mini but my Infiniti is so much more car in every way, so what’s not to like?”

 

I agree and disagree ... after driving the MkVII GTI, it is a much better car than the MkVI and therefore will have a lot of VW fans climbing on board (I already have three friends who have taken delivery of their MkVIIs). I think sales will continue to be very strong. However, typical VW BS applies to the new MkVII: The performance pkg is delayed intro/not yet available, a lot of "European only" items, if you want the awesome Plaid Cloth interior AND a sunroof you are SOL ("bleep" out of luck) and the trim levels are oddly packaged. However, a fully loaded Autobahn with Lighting Package will be thousands less than a comparably equipped MCS with more room and more horsepower. Not to mention that the 4-door is a true 4-door. Yes it is "bland", yes they will all largely look the same (VW tried the customization thing with the Beetle and failed), but its interior is one of the best in the industry and it is an exceptional/proven performance hatch for the price. As far as reliability? VW is far better overall than any of the R56/Prince engine MINIs. Where MINI has VW beat is in the warranty/service department mostly, IMHO. And I have plenty of experience with both.

 

I see hard plastic in Mercedes. The interior of any car has leather, carpet, glass, and plastic. No ivory, no real wood, no marble. Plastic, it's all over the place. Your car, my car, everybody's car.

 

this x100. a few buddies of mine that like the mk7 are torn by the same thing. packaging system for VW is terrible: package stuff you really want with stuff you really don't want. mini's a la carte system/individualization is one of the best things about it

 

We had an all optioned out TDI bug made in Mexico that was short lived in our garage because of unresolved rattle issues but perfect mechanically, the service experience was a major pain, no loaner cars and never fixing the problem.
Our current Mini dealer is a standalone not a BMW stepchild store next door, like the one I purchased our first Mini from. They always have loaner cars and the service experience is an Absolutely 5 Star Plus. I hate to say this, but if I have a problem with my Mini, I really don't care much because it just means I get to take a overnight test drives in different models.

 

Exactly driving home my point, which adds some amount of value for paying more for the product (along with the 3 years of free service vs VWs [now] 2-year service plan that does not include brakes). In the case of my 2013 VW TDI convertible, however, that stellar service experience was not worth the $10,000 more for a comparably equipped MINI R57 S convertible. And fortunately I have a good service guy at my local VW dealer and an extra car (or three) should I need it.

And MINI service should hopefully get even better as there has been a lot of focus on that recently. All MINI dealers are required to separate from their respective (if applicable) BMW sisters by 2016. So long stepchild! Also, shop around for service ... in saturated markets like Los Angeles, there are 13 dealers vying for your business. Some with crazy hours (6am-9pm) and a 70 loaner vehicle fleet, while others valet service your vehicle so you never have to leave your home. VW only did that with the launch of the Touraeg and Phaeton ... and we know how that ended up.

 

this x1000 I am actually in this predicament right now. Back and forth between the Mk7 and the F56. I just need to test drive them back to back to make my mind up which one I want. Luckily my MINI dealer is right next to a VW dealer But the customization of the MINI still might do it for me even if I like the dynamics of the GTI better. I have to shelve out 32 grand for the GTI fitted with the options I would want, not to mention I LOSE certain things I want, like the cloth seats, and STILL don't get what i want, like an 8'' nav screen. With the MINI i'd probably just get a Justa for 26-27k, yea its slower, but 42 MPG and still a hoot with that 3 cyl, baby 6 cyl growl, and I save 6 grand.Yea I lose a lot of performance, but with the justa I can get it EXACTLY how I want it, with an 8.8'' nav and LED headlights AND tailights. VW charges the same price for their Xenon headlights!!!, yes they're adaptive, but you don't even get LED tails!!! Ludicrous. I'm thinking I'll go with the F56 and in several years, once the mk7 has been established and likely more of the euro options become available and packaging improves (they're limiting packages at release for a reason ---to not confuse the new Mexican production) I'll finally get my GTI. I'm still in college, I commute to college everyday, and work 2 jobs, I'll average 15,000 miles a year so that extra MPG is worth it for me.

 

The 0 to 60 time for the MINI (6.3) was faster than what MINI claimed on their website.

 

bmw tends to underrate those figures. wouldn't be surprised if it makes more (crank) power than claimed

 

Good point. Maybe Our MCSes produce more then 189hp and 207lbs of torque.

The VW CC I traded in claimed 200hp and 207 of torque, but people reported seeing that much hp at the drive wheels. The theory was that VW wanted to show more distance between the VW hp and the Audi with a nearly identical engine.

 

probably true. powerwise the gti has long been underrated. and im a big fan of that motor and boosted iron blocks in general. tend to be bulletproof.

 

This thread has been a great read!

Like others have said I'm coming from a MkVI GTI and my decision was also between a MkVII and a Mini S. I know the GTI is probably better than the Mini is most objective measures but after I test drove both and watched a bunch of YouTube videos, I realized the goofy Mini puts a smile on people's faces that the serious GTI doesn't.

I also didn't like the GTI's options bundling nor the fact they're cutting back on their free maintenance (down to 1 year from 3). The problem with being #1 is you know you are and stop trying so hard. I liked the MkVII very much but feel like VW knows they're on top so if you don't like it go somewhere else. I think Mini is still trying.

For me the slower sales are a blessing. Ordered just a few days ago my F56 Cooper S is already scheduled for production next week. I ordered a Saturn during their heyday ('93) and the wait was months in length.