When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
As an independent distributor. They are NOT H&R, they are a US based company that is not under H&Rs corporate umbrella.
I called them in WA back in late 2017, and was told they DO NOT make sway bars for the F56.
The truth was they did not import the sway bars, thus me having to buy fro a German retailer (Tunershop)
Ah wrong again. I was one of the three largest H&R customers for over a decade. They are 100% part of the H&R corporate umbrella. I built 5 cars for H&R for SEMA for their booth. I knew the CEO in the US and the owners in Germany. They used to take me (my company), Turner Motorsports (ECS can verify this as they bought Turner) and AWE to ESSEN each year as guests at the factory. I have even been in the H&R helicopter in Germany buzzing the Eibach factory more than once! The "H" in H&R tossed me the keys to his new S600 as it was delivered one year for some high speed autobahn fun! Shall I continue?
You are just wrong. If you don't know something, its ok. Just don't post as it a "fact" on a forum. Funny that you don't actually know but based this on one phone call! lol
BTW, what you said first was "don't have a presence in the US, only independent distributors." - which is not true as I showed. Then you said they are not part of the corporate umbrella, which is you changing the story, but still wrong.
Here is me in the H&R booth at ESSEN MotorShow in the CLK DTM car they had on display (no, they dont let just anyone in them)
On the US H&R site, they don't list the SE at all.
But the German site, it does.
And 28813-2 is the same part number H&R uses for the F57 (convertible). The convertible weighs about the same as the SE so that makes sense but it seems H&R just fudged it as close enough. The front is listed as 40mm drop for the SE but the same springs on the F57 drop is 30mm. The rear is 30mm for the F57 and 35mm for the SE.
When I called H&R in America, they acted like they never heard of the SE. They weren't helpful at all. It does seem like they are operated by different organizations and you even said there is a CEO for the US operations. So it might be owned by the same company, everything indicates that it is operated independently.
Like any company that has locations in multiple countries, this is not uncommon. The German headquarters does not run the US operation, just like German BMW does not run BMW North America - yet nobody would say that BMW/MINI NA is a separate company. It is important to also realize that H&R and Eibach are not designed to sell to the consumer, they sell to qualified dealers and distributors (like ECS) who handle customers. Even back when I had a shop, it would have been worthless to call H&R and ask a question about lets say e46 M3 coil-over rates and options. They would have no idea, the receptionist isn't a salesperson, they are admin staff. If you called my shop, all the salespeople could answer the question.
People seem to think that calling the manufacturer is better than calling a qualified and experienced, specialist. It may be in some industries, but it is not in auto aftermarket.
I have run my own distributor/retail/manufacturer/race shop for 15 years as well as running sales teams at Cosworth, Magnaflow and K&N. I also consulted for Momo/Weld (on CCW and ADV1). I worked in that industry for 20+ years. I will tell you 100%, none of the manufactures know the intricacies of the product and applications like dealers. How could they? They sell 1000's of parts for 100's of cars. It is not their job to know this, it is their job to make great parts and distribute them to specialists. The "sales" people at companies like K&N, Magnaflow, H&R, Eibach are wholesale professionals who sell to dealer accounts, not to consumers. And the people that a consumer can talk to on the phone generally have no clue about anything you will ask.
Caleb Lee @ H&R Special Springs<caleb@hrsprings.com>
Thu, Jan 21, 11:23 AM
Thanks for contacting H&R springs about your MINI.
Unfortunately at this time we have not tested anything for the electric models and I do not have any recommendations. I do anticipate, with growing interest, we will develop something. Please stay tuned to our website hrsprings.com for any new product releases.
Please let me know if you have any other questions and thank you for considering H&R products for your vehicle!
The "sales" people at companies like K&N, Magnaflow, H&R, Eibach are wholesale professionals who sell to dealer accounts, not to consumers. And the people that a consumer can talk to on the phone generally have no clue about anything you will ask.
Your email illustrates that point.
Think about it, are you going to call IBM HQ to ask about the specs on the latest thinkbook? They will be clueless. You will call Microcenter.
Just like here, people like ECS/Turner will know much more than H&R as they are not hired, trained or experienced dealing with you as the consumer.
This is a bit afield from where we started, but a great opportunity to understand why experienced specialists are vitally important to the aftermarket.
Its not a mistake, it is indicative that these people don't know what they are talking about. That doesn't make them not H&R! You said they were not part of the company, which is factually not true. Nothing you have said or Jon has disproved that. I have explained why they don't know about this niche fitment, but neither of you seem to be listening. So they don't know about a fitment where they may sell 5 sets a year, I told you they are not specialists in EV MINI's. The sales people there deal with business to business accounts and rely on people like my old shop or now ECS/Turner to know the details on Euro fitments and others to know the details on US or JDM applications. THEY DO NOT SELL DIRECT TO CONSUMERS! lol, I have spelled this out as clearly as humanly possible.
You are tough to get through to lol!!!!!
Not sure why, but some people refuse to admit when they are wrong. Sad really.
Please continue to believe what you want, even if it is factually inaccurate. Your loss for being unwilling to learn something.
All this talk, and you still have not stated one fact that they are part of the company called H&R.
My statement is that they are an independent dealer distributor for H&R in Germany. Incorporated in Washington state as H&R Special Springs LP.
Unlike Eibach, which has a true presence in the US.
Eibach and H&R really dont have a presence in the US, only independent distributors.
Originally Posted by TVPostSound
Unlike Eibach, which has a true presence in the US.
LOL - change your original argument mid-stream, huh? Well at least you have accepted half of the truth!
Short of showing the public records, I would think the fact that I have visited all 4 facilities numerous times (US and German H&R and Eibach) and know all the people personally (Owners of the companies and the US presidents) would be enough - but you seem to really hold credence into the 1 interaction you had with a company who doesn't sell direct to consumers! lol
How about this: datanyze
"H&R Special Springs is a German based suspension company that has been built on a foundation of superior quality, true performance, and the best customer service. H&R has established a proven heritage of unsurpassed industry, respect and customer confidence, all of which give H&R the definitive edge in suspension tuning and design. All H&R products are crafted in Germany and exceed ISO 9001 quality assurance standards. H&R maintains a North American facility located in Bellingham, Washington, where additional testing and research are conducted."
I really cannot believe how insanely difficult it is for you to just admit that you didn't know, you assumed, and you were wrong. INSANE! My 17 year old has more self-awareness than that!
H&R North America wasn't helpful at all when I contacted their technical support. Call me crazy but I expect "technical support" to provide technical support.
H&R North America still doesn't list the SE on their site but the main H&R site does.
H&R springs for the SE are actually the same ones as the ones for the F57 (convertible).
The H&R springs for the SE have a a front/rear drop of 40mm/35mm while the F57 with these same springs are 30mm/30mm.
And for Eibach
I had the same experience with Eibach North America as I did H&R North America.
Eibach does sell a kit for the SE that does seem to be unique for the SE which is unlike H&R.
On the phone with Eibach, I was told that they operate independently from the operations in Germany.
I would be concerned with just swapping in either set of lowering springs because the shock lengths will be too long and likely wear out soon. This is one of the reasons why I went with coilovers.
H&R North America wasn't helpful at all when I contacted their technical support. Call me crazy but I expect "technical support" to provide technical support
I mentioned it before - this is a common misconception in the automotive aftermarket. Your BEST course of technical support is from a consumer facing specialist, not the manufacturer. In my 15 years of owning and running a significant player in this market, I can tell you that we knew more about BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari upgrades than any of our parts makers.
Even when I was running International for K&N, the internal "tech" people in the CA HQ were not automotive people. They read from a catalog. They had no idea about fitments, performance, etc. They were just call center people. This is what you find at nearly every medium to large manufacturer. They don't hire sales or tech people that come from the field. Again, and K&N, even the salespeople were not car people. They just dealt with large accounts (NAPA, etc) and read from parts catalogs. It was very frustrating, but that is the way it goes! I made the salespeople under me get out and visit shops and learn about applications and who to call on for expertise - to try to avoid the issues you had Jon. But it is not the norm.
If you want good information, go to the shop(s) that specialize in your specific car, not the manufacturer.
Originally Posted by Jon Roberts
I would be concerned with just swapping in either set of lowering springs because the shock lengths will be too long and likely wear out soon. This is one of the reasons why I went with coilovers.
I hear/heard this all the time. It really doesnt wear out the shocks. It can lead to a more uncomfortable ride. Coil-overs are always the way to go if you can afford/justify the cost. I am ok with the Eibach springs (BTW, Eibach US offered to get them from Germany for me - so some people there know about them, but tunerworks was just faster), the rates are close enough that the ride is only slightly worse than stock and the look is a perfect compromise of what I would do and what my wife will accept (she drives this one sometimes too).
So I could keep my stock shocks and just purchase those springs and it would work? I see the ride height of your SE and really like that. Assuming since it's made for the SE, that it would cover the difference in front and back ride height and make it even. Thanks for your help
So I could keep my stock shocks and just purchase those springs and it would work? I see the ride height of your SE and really like that. Assuming since it's made for the SE, that it would cover the difference in front and back ride height and make it even. Thanks for your help
Yes, you can keep the stock dampers and just use either the H&R or Eibach springs. The Eibach springs are technically not available in the US but Tuner Shop sells them and will ship here. This is what Tifosi did.
Awesome, thanks. Are you suggesting spacers for cosmetics only or another reason? I know they mess with the geometry quite a bit and would rather not put more wear on the tires than necessary. If there's a way to have spacers while keeping the same tire wear I would do that. Also, do you know what all I can do regarding this topic while staying in warranty?
Spacers are for cosmetics mostly but it does make the car have a wider track which helps some. But spacers do not put more wear on your tires. A poor alignment is the main cause for more tire wear.
You just need to get an alignment after you put on the new springs and spacers. This also doesn't void your warranty. For a modification to void your warranty, the modification has to be the cause of a failure. For example, if your power windows stop working, it will still be covered if you have lowering springs and spacers on the car.
Yes, you can keep the stock dampers and just use either the H&R or Eibach springs. The Eibach springs are technically not available in the US but Tuner Shop sells them and will ship here. This is what Tifosi did.
I am old school, but I would not use BC Racing coils. I am an Eibach/H&R/KW type of guy. I know BC are cheaper, but I have been to all three of the aforementioned factories and there is a reason that they are a bit more $ IMHO.
I HAVE tried cheap coils when I owned a tuning shop on one of my BMWs and the results were far less than spectacular (ie: blown coil over strut on the freeway). The resulting damage and tow more than offset the savings of just doing it right to start with.
We're well aware of your preferences by now and I appreciate your input, but I've used them many times in the past and they're a proven brand. I'm more interested to see if anyone has used them on an SE.
I recently did some more digging on the KW international website and found some interesting things.
1. The front and rear dampers are identical between the V1 coilovers for the S, SE, and even the V1 Street Comfort coilovers.
2. The front springs are the same between the V1 coilovers for the S and S Street Comfort.
3. The only difference between the V1 coilovers and the V1 Street Comfort coilovers for the S, are the rear springs. The "comfort" is obtained only from softer rear springs and the difference is pretty small.
Rear Springs S
Wire Size: 11.6mm
Untensioned Length: 180mm
Model #: 2049
S Street Comfort
Wire Size: 11.9mm
Untensioned Length: 160mm
Model #: 2050
The installation guide for the two are the same too. I read some reviews too and the Street Comfort apparently is a lot more compliant. All that from a slightly softer rear spring.
Now, for the SE, again it uses the same dampers front and rear. The front springs are softer as there is less weight in the front of the car. The listed curb weight by KW is:
Front: 985 kg
Rear: 875 kg
The S has:
model:
Front: 1005 kg
Rear: 860 kg
So 15 kg difference in the rear. So what about that rear spring rate in the SE?
Wire Size: 12.4mm
Untensioned Length: 175mm
Model #: 2061
So a much thicker spring so I'm assuming it is a much stiffer spring rate.
One more thing I found was on the Mini Clubman AWD (F54). It uses a stiffer rear spring it is model # 2061 (same as the SE!). The Clubman rear weight is a lot more too. It is listed at 1290 kg.
So, I think KW just used the S coilover kit with the one exception of using the much stiffer Clubman rear springs to make sure it handled the extra weight of the battery pack. It is a little unfounded too because it is only 15 kg more for the SE. Instead, they are using a rear spring designed for a rear axle load of 415 kg more. That explains the harsher then expected ride with my coilovers.
I plan on trying the street comfort rear springs if I can get a set.
I recently did some more digging on the KW international website and found some interesting things.
1. The front and rear dampers are identical between the V1 coilovers for the S, SE, and even the V1 Street Comfort coilovers.
2. The front springs are the same between the V1 coilovers for the S and S Street Comfort.
3. The only difference between the V1 coilovers and the V1 Street Comfort coilovers for the S, are the rear springs. The "comfort" is obtained only from softer rear springs and the difference is pretty small.
Rear Springs S
Wire Size: 11.6mm
Untensioned Length: 180mm
Model #: 2049
S Street Comfort
Wire Size: 11.9mm
Untensioned Length: 160mm
Model #: 2050
The installation guide for the two are the same too. I read some reviews too and the Street Comfort apparently is a lot more compliant. All that from a slightly softer rear spring.
Now, for the SE, again it uses the same dampers front and rear. The front springs are softer as there is less weight in the front of the car. The listed curb weight by KW is:
Front: 985 kg
Rear: 875 kg
The S has:
model:
Front: 1005 kg
Rear: 860 kg
So 15 kg difference in the rear. So what about that rear spring rate in the SE?
Wire Size: 12.4mm
Untensioned Length: 175mm
Model #: 2061
So a much thicker spring so I'm assuming it is a much stiffer spring rate.
One more thing I found was on the Mini Clubman AWD (F54). It uses a stiffer rear spring it is model # 2061 (same as the SE!). The Clubman rear weight is a lot more too. It is listed at 1290 kg.
So, I think KW just used the S coilover kit with the one exception of using the much stiffer Clubman rear springs to make sure it handled the extra weight of the battery pack. It is a little unfounded too because it is only 15 kg more for the SE. Instead, they are using a rear spring designed for a rear axle load of 415 kg more. That explains the harsher then expected ride with my coilovers.
I plan on trying the street comfort rear springs if I can get a set.
I appreciate that you have done a great amount of leg work finding data for those springs, but I think some of your analysis isn’t quite correct. The biggest factors in determining spring rate are wire diameter, spring coil diameter, and number of coils. Overall length has no relation to spring rate, but will contribute to ride height. See this web page for discussion on calculating spring rate: https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/how-...-spring-rates/
So, where you have determined a bigger wire diameter, you’re getting a higher spring rate, not a lower rate, which you see in the size of the F54 rear spring.
Also, the Cooper SE is much heavier than the Cooper S, not less as your post would imply.
Thanks for reading my post and giving me feedback. I really appreciate it.
I omitted a few things that are relevant.
SE Rear spring
Part # 2061
Wire Size: 12.4 mm
Diameter
Top: 86 mm
Middle: 105 mm
Bottom: 81 mm
Length: 175 mm
Number of coils: 5.2
S Rear Spring
Part # 2049
Wire Size: 11.9 mm
Diameter
Top: 85 mm
Middle: 106 mm
Bottom: 80 mm
Length: 160 mm
Number of coils: 5.5
S Comfort Rear Spring
Part # 2050
Wire Size: 11.6 mm
Diameter
Top: 85 mm
Middle: 105 mm
Bottom: 80 mm
Length: 180 mm
Number of coils: 5.5
It is only $200 shipped for a set of different rear springs and pretty easy to swap out so I'm giving it a try. These are progressive springs too so it should hopefully just make it softer initially but still stiff enough to handle big bunps.
Oh, I was comparing the Clubman AWD with the Cooper SE weight. The Clubman AWD has a curb weight of 3443 lbs which is heavier than the SE. My SE is a slick top, no heads up display, and the basic radio so it is the lightest configuration. I also don't weigh that much.
We will see in about 6 weeks. I may end up buying the S rear springs too.
Another data point, H&R certified the same lowering springs from the F57 (convertible) for the SE. Meanwhile, KW uses the same springs, including the comfort ones, for the F57.
12-02-2021, 10:25 AM
