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I"m a big EV fan. Every new model introduced catches my eye and I hope to see more and more Ev's enter the market place going forward. My next car will be a EV. That being said:
Just factor in, you should not be charging the car to 100% routinely. Between 80-90% is what is recommended. (most say 80-85% is the sweet spot to ensure maximum battery life). Based on that, the published range for the Mini is about right for normal daily use w/ moderate driving and no accessories. I for one use the AC every time I go out (Florida). Also like to listen to my music. We also get rain routinely down here where headlights are mandatory and wipers run at a speed based on the amount of rain falling. On the 1st half of his trip it would appear, w/o any accessories running and moderate temps, maybe 140 Miles per charge. Once he started the wipers and heat, and temp drop, the range quickly dropped off.
I'd be comfortable using this car like my ICE MCS (AC, radio) for trips of no longer that 60-70 miles (and to be fair, that is about where most people's daily needs fall). I would not be comfortable buying this car if my daily needs puts me close to the Mini's maximum range. Over time, batteries lose efficiency and factoring driving conditions (headlights, windshield wipers, defoggers, heat/AC, traffic delays/detours, etc.) 2/3rds of published range would be a practical range to base one's usage upon and not worry about "will I make it home", if things go horribly wrong.
Just my perspective as an owner that wants to be able to drive an EV, use the accessories as I would in my ICE car, and not have to worry about recharging until I get home.
There's something very frustrating about not being able to properly use the full rated range. I think the manufacturers owe it to the customer to limit the cars charging capacity to a safe level, so a car rated at 110 miles would achieve that range without charging the battery above 90% or discharging it below 15%. (Of course to the end user this information would be provided as a range from 100% to 0%.) I think Tesla actually does something like this, I remember that they remotely unlocked additional range in peoples cars to help them evacuate during hurricane season. You can only do that if you were holding back capacity to begin with. I thought this was scummy originally but now that I understand more about batteries I think this is a really smart move that will help them keep a good public opinion of the brand.
So in a perfect world:
The manufacturer would control the charging amount to maximize battery longevity unless overridden by the end user, multiple overrides would warn the user that their behavior will permanently damage the battery.
The range ratings would be based off of proper, safe SOC regions.
The range ratings would include estimated battery degradation statistics ("Estimated* 95mi range after 5 years / 80mi range after 10")
*Based on the number of charge cycles required to drive the national average of ~12,000 annual miles.
What does everyone else think? Are you happy with the current level of transparency surrounding EV range ratings?
(There's also the false advertising of fast charging. The SE is boasted to charge to 80% in 35 minutes, but if you do that daily how long is the battery going to last? I had a phone that fast charged by default and I had completely destroyed the battery by 18 months of daily charges. I was pretty upset about that and it was 1/50th the price of a Cooper SE.)
I trend towards Tesla as providing real world usability FWIW, I hope others are providing similar data rather than "catch-up" specifications to sell vehicles.(although if BMW's i4 turns out to be accurate in its specifications) that could change for me).
I really look forward to seeing 400 mile ranges and battery life that exceeds 500K miles. Weight and performance numbers are all arbitrary in my eyes. If a vehicle is capable or merging with traffic on an Interstate and providing reasonable acceleration (whether it's 3.5 or 6.0 to 0-60 and ranges that exceed what I would normally use), I'm fine with it.
Ideally, I think we all want see an EV's battery to last longer than we'd ever hope to keep a car and it's range to allow us to travel at the extreme of our norm and still leave enough reserve to allow a safe return home without worry.
I think the above is not "pie in the sky", but merely a matter of time before becoming the reality.
Several years ago I began experimenting with adding an electric drive auxiliary motor system to my diesel motor vessel. It's an absolute honk to cruise around the bay for an hour under silent magical electric power. My system is supplied by 72VDC of old fashioned deep cycle lead acid batteries -- golf cart batteries, basically.
I have learned a lot about depth of discharge, kilowatt hours, Peukert's Law, and how to get to the emergency room fast when I ran one of my fingers around a pulley... but I digress.
Accumulating and storing electrical energy in batteries is so very different from storing energy in a fossil fuel tank. I can putt around the bay for an hour under diesel propulsion and burn less than a quart of fuel. Or I can charge the battery bank for several hours and get an hour of cruising under electric power.
The amps that flow to convert electricity into rotational torque are impressive. Amps that flow into the batteries and then out of the batteries to the motor. Not the most efficient thing in the world. But then, neither is producing and burning fossil fuel!
The fact that, with reasonable weight, Tesla and others can store over 300 miles of energy in a well-handling vehicle is impressive.
Today, even the cleanest battery tech is still pretty dirty. Even if you're charging with solar, we still have to use stuff from the earth that isn't very clean to produce. But the advances are impressive.
I cruise around the bay at about 5mph. In my MINI, I like to go much faster.
But, yes, I will consider an EV for my next car. Or maybe I'll just yank the V-12 out of my old Jag and plop in an electric drive. Not much range, but it would be great to put the top down and cruise Pacific Coast Highway for a short stretch. I wonder what it would be like to own a Jag that didn't leak oil???
From what I've been reading here and there, Tesla's new batteries (using Maxwell Technology) will be pushing the 600 mile range (and more) in the long range Model 3. Additionally longevity will be increased as well as performance (the long range may rival the Model 3's Performance - and thus pushing the Performance model to even faster acceleration. Developing and being able to manufacture their own batteries "in house" puts Tesla at a distinct advantage IMO.
As time goes on, I'm confident other car manufacturers (and battery suppliers) will close the gap somewhat, but with a near decade head start by Tesla, that will be a steep climb.. At present the one to watch is Tesla for innovation and tech IMO. As long as Tesla keeps innovating, that will force other manufacturers to do the same - and we, as consumers, in the end will win.
Am I Tesla "fan boy", in a way yes, only because they took the risks early on and do not rest on their past accomplishments. I do like their car, but.but have some dislikes with their design. Not a big fan of a huge IPad as the only way to change things in the car (that may change if I ever have to opportunity to see how it operates). I much prefer some of the routine operations to remain as buttons or dials as shown in the BMW i4. I also don't like the key-card and cell-phone entry method as the only way to enter and use the car. A small fob that allows for hands-free entry would suit my needs better than the card and cellphone (not saying you couldn't all three). These are not deal breakers but more just annoyances.
If Mini produced a actual 300+ mile EPA ranged F56, I'd be trading in my 2019 MCS for one. Until then it's Tesla's Model 3 or perhaps the BMW i4 (depending).
Most of what you wrote is fact, but I still feel like you kicked my dog. ;]
Sorry buddy, I am an animal lover and the last thing I'd want to do is kick a dog or any other.animal. I think electric is our future regardless of the love for ICE cars. I love my tuned M240i, but thinking I could have something that would out perform, cost less to operate, and potentially reduce emissions. I'm all in. Just give me the range I need and a reasonable "buy-in" price, and I'm there. $30-$50K.with ranges in the 350-400 miles will put ICE cars out of the mainstream buying. We are not that far away from what I've read.
My range test: 100% down to 5% charge: 141.5 miles
It took 2 weeks to complete the test and it was mostly in-town driving in ideal conditions. I didn't use the air conditioning or heater much at all but I didn't drive it conservatively. It was always in the normal mode except for the last 15 miles which I put in Green+ mode.
Just factor in, you should not be charging the car to 100% routinely. Between 80-90% is what is recommended. (most say 80-85% is the sweet spot to ensure maximum battery life).
The SE has a 32.6 KW battery but only 28.9 KW available (89%).
"Some EVs like the Audi e-tron and Volkswagen e-Golf have a built-in buffer, meaning when you charge to 100 percent, the battery pack is not actually at 100 percent. Instead, there's an unusable reserve to help limit battery degradation." https://insideevs.com/news/368097/vi...imit-benefits/
One thing that isn't talked about much is the difference in service cost between ICE & EV.
A a MINI owner, I am well aware of the ICE side of that comparison.
Anyone have data on EV scheduled maintenance costs?
I've had a Model 3 for a little over two years and 93,000 miles, so far maintenance is as follows: tires (a few sets), windshield wipers, and windshield wiper fluid.
I've had a Model 3 for a little over two years and 93,000 miles, so far maintenance is as follows: tires (a few sets), windshield wipers, and windshield wiper fluid.
Nik
Brakes too, I would assume. Still not much to maintain without the engine and transmission of an ICE car.
I've had a Model 3 for a little over two years and 93,000 miles, so far maintenance is as follows: tires (a few sets), windshield wipers, and windshield wiper fluid.
Nik
Good to know. Tesla is on my short list (BMW i4 is another I'm anxiously awaiting as it look promising). I know Tesla regen braking is highly touted for one pedal driving and as you've stated can virtually eliminate normal brake wear. I'm really unclear on how other EV's compare since that is one aspect of the EV that isn't really covered in reviews. Does the Mini have aggressive brake regen (one pedal driving)? Interested to know since the i4 will likely incorporate the same system (as both are BMW products). Replacing a regen brake components could be an expensive proposition if, on other EV's, they wear like a normal ICE car. I would guess it could be more involved that just pads (or rotors as necessary). 93K w/ tires and wiper blades as the only wear items is really awesome.
As an aside, Tesla is one the specifically states not to charge to 100% unless you plan to run the battery down (as in longer trips). They say 80-85% up-charge for routine driving and don't run it down to 0..Stay somewhere around 20% on the low side to guarantee long term battery life. Yes?
As a Tesla owner, are you still happy with your purchase and would you buy another?
AFAIK, there is only one way to implement regen braking: the motor becomes a generator and sends power to the battery. I don't know of any specific regen braking components other than the inverter that converts the AC coming from the motor/generator to DC for the battery. I don't know how regen braking is accomplished when the battery is fully charged, however--where does the re-generated power go?
I've read that the MINI Cooper SE offers less-powerful regen braking than some other BEVs, such as the Nissan Leaf or a Tesla, but I go days in my SE without using the brake pedal. I seem to hit the brakes only when a stoplight turns yellow and I choose to stop quickly because then I'll be first in line and can rocket away when the light turns green. My SE is not Tesla-fast, but I've never had a car this quick in my 30+ number of cars owned (I've always favored handling over acceleration).
One topic not addressed by reviewers is how quickly a BEV illuminates its brake lights in response to regen braking. I installed an interior LED to show me when my MINI Cooper SE's brake lights come on and discovered they come on the instant the Power Gauge needle touches the regen area of the gauge. This highly sensitive behavior prompts me to assume there were lawyers involved in the design. I'm not happy that every time I let off the accelerator my brake lights come on. They come on even if I limit my rate of deceleration to less than that of a manual-transmission ICE car engaging in engine braking.
I'm training myself to consciously limit and group my deceleration events to avoid making it look like I'm a bozo driving around with my left foot resting on the brake pedal. No longer do I rocket away from a stoplight to 10 mph over the speed limit and then back off to just 5 mph over the speed limit. Instead, I now rocket up to 5 mph over the speed limit and hold it there.
AFAIK, there is only one way to implement regen braking: the motor becomes a generator and sends power to the battery. I don't know of any specific regen braking components other than the inverter that converts the AC coming from the motor/generator to DC for the battery. I don't know how regen braking is accomplished when the battery is fully charged, however--where does the re-generated power go?
I've read that the MINI Cooper SE offers less-powerful regen braking than some other BEVs, such as the Nissan Leaf or a Tesla, but I go days in my SE without using the brake pedal. I seem to hit the brakes only when a stoplight turns yellow and I choose to stop quickly because then I'll be first in line and can rocket away when the light turns green. My SE is not Tesla-fast, but I've never had a car this quick in my 30+ number of cars owned (I've always favored handling over acceleration)..
I did not realize this. So I assume the brakes on an EV are the same found on ICE cars.
I did not realize this. So I assume the brakes on an EV are the same found on ICE cars.
Yes the Mini Cooper S E brakes are the brakes found on the Cooper S ICE version. I researched this when shopping for winter wheel fitments and 15" were a no go.
There's a Regen switch on the Mini Cooper S E that toggles between very heavy regen and very very light regen, almost coasting. This light regen will be very nice in the Winter on snow/ice slippery conditions if you want to be gentle with transition between go and stop.
A major variation you find between manufacturers (aside from how much the regenerative braking alone slows the vehicle) is if/when/how the friction brakes are applied.
Some manufacturers treat the friction brakes as a separate/independent system--they only engage when you press on the brake pedal (or ABS/stability systems kick in, presumably). Other manufacturers will blend the friction brakes with regenerative braking such that the initial press of the pedal engages regenerative braking, then applies the friction brakes as you apply more pressure to the pedal or as the vehicle drops below a certain speed.
The former approach lends itself well to one-pedal driving, whereas the latter approach gives a more "traditional ICE car" experience.
You'd think that an Inside EVs author would know how to maximize range, but perhaps he wanted to describe the worst-case scenario to prevent unreasonable expectations. In my experience, my MINI Electric is one of the few cars that easily exceeds EPA estimates. MINI's Guess-O-Meter is very conservative so you have more miles in the battery than it reports.
This guy managed to drive a MINI Electric 177.65 miles on a single charge. You can see every mile (sped up) in his 16:47-minute YouTube video. He's not driving at 18 mph in a country loop with no hills like the team that drove a gen-1 Honda Insight 2,254.4 miles on a single 10.6-gallon tankful of gas (taking more than 125 hours for the drive!). Still, nobody with a daily 125-mile commute should consider the MINI Cooper SE unless they can charge at work.
Man drives MINI Electric 177.65 miles on a single charge
04-15-2020, 12:35 PM
I think electric is our future regardless of the love for ICE cars. I love my tuned M240i, but thinking I could have something that would out perform, cost less to operate, and potentially reduce emissions. I'm all in. Just give me the range I need and a reasonable "buy-in" price, and I'm there. $30-$50K.with ranges in the 350-400 miles will put ICE cars out of the mainstream buying. We are not that far away from what I've read.
