Drivetrain Newest dyno runs - ECU stuff that works!!!
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
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>>so u will be offering a package with the intake, pulley, ECU, and exhaust..
>>which will what i be interested in getting when i have money
>>(well maybe get some wheels first)
>>anyway
>>any chance of those package shipping to overseas??? (i live in australia)
>>beucase i will get them seperately if u dun offer them in a package (will should be cheaper i assume??)
Randy, Not sure why you didnt want to tell them it was EVOTECH but here is the skinny guys. I called into Madness and confirmed.
Not that I am a sales rep for these guys but you can buy this stuff now.
www.mini-madness already offers this package deals with these exact pieces and ECU! Since this is where Randy gets some of his supplies I am sure they will be priced evenly.
If we are talking about the Madness stuff IE Quicksilver,madness Intake, Evotech ECU and pulley. If you want a package from Randy with other pieces then for a preview thats the place to look or you can just get it from Madness. Either way!
PS: I confirmed that this is the Evotech ECU that was tested. Randy beat me to the Dyno although I will be still doing runs on the Mustang dyno (there you go Andy).
I dont think there is much debate left about this ECU and the truth about what power it generates. As Andy can tell you this entire debate has been a pain in the rear for about 3 months now. I am glad its almost over and done with. AND NO this was not tunned for Randys car specifically. Same ECU MOD that Silver S got.
>>which will what i be interested in getting when i have money
>>(well maybe get some wheels first)
>>anyway
>>any chance of those package shipping to overseas??? (i live in australia)
>>beucase i will get them seperately if u dun offer them in a package (will should be cheaper i assume??)
Randy, Not sure why you didnt want to tell them it was EVOTECH but here is the skinny guys. I called into Madness and confirmed.
Not that I am a sales rep for these guys but you can buy this stuff now.
www.mini-madness already offers this package deals with these exact pieces and ECU! Since this is where Randy gets some of his supplies I am sure they will be priced evenly.
If we are talking about the Madness stuff IE Quicksilver,madness Intake, Evotech ECU and pulley. If you want a package from Randy with other pieces then for a preview thats the place to look or you can just get it from Madness. Either way!
PS: I confirmed that this is the Evotech ECU that was tested. Randy beat me to the Dyno although I will be still doing runs on the Mustang dyno (there you go Andy).
I dont think there is much debate left about this ECU and the truth about what power it generates. As Andy can tell you this entire debate has been a pain in the rear for about 3 months now. I am glad its almost over and done with. AND NO this was not tunned for Randys car specifically. Same ECU MOD that Silver S got.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 413
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From: Dublin, NH
What I would really like to see is a hookup for my palm pilot so I can download different ECU programming into the chip from the OBDII port. That way I can tap the "stock" ECU program and take it in for service... then flash it with pulley/whatever-else-I-have-by-then programming. Plus that way, like M3NTAL_Kev wants, we can change chip configurations to optimise the fuel we have. Am I dreaming or do people who know more about ECUs think this is something that could happen? I say a palm pilot because it's small enough to always have with you unlike a laptop which you probably wouldn't carry around as often. Andy are you listening 
I can't wait to see what you come up with.
-Chris
I can't wait to see what you come up with. -Chris
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
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>>What I would really like to see is a hookup for my palm pilot so I can download different ECU programming into the chip from the OBDII port. That way I can tap the "stock" ECU program and take it in for service... then flash it with pulley/whatever-else-I-have-by-then programming. Plus that way, like M3NTAL_Kev wants, we can change chip configurations to optimise the fuel we have. Am I dreaming or do people who know more about ECUs think this is something that could happen? I say a palm pilot because it's small enough to always have with you unlike a laptop which you probably wouldn't carry around as often. Andy are you listening 
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From: Denver
Well Bryan, I wasn't sure what the deal was yet, and I didn't want to get in any trouble with anyone, since I hadn't secured the details of everything other than I found the stuff to work.
This is the German tuning that EVOTech and we believe 9FF also uses. I have found it very successful, but this is the newest iteration, and we will be further refining it - after talking with Hartmut this morning.
The pricing will actually be a bit more competetive from MINI-Motorsport, and as you mentioned, a little more flexibnle with the options offered as far as exhaust and intake (ALTA/Rogue/BMP and Borla/Quicksilver/Magnaflow and when they are tested and prove to work, the UUC, Stebro and NRP).
After discussing the possibilities this morning with EVOTech, I am very excited. We will have this software available at the FL, Dallas, and SoCal installs. MINI-Motorsport will have the capability to do the flashes here in Denver (or on the road) with a proprietary program on a laptop and the required hardware (essentially some cables) within the next 2 weeks. In the interim, programming is done through Renntech/EVOTech USA in Florida (the same facility the pulley installs will be in). This is a simple process of sending your ECU FedEx to the facility where it is reprogrammed and sent back to you.
perfpow is gathering more information on the actual programmer in Germany to offer as many details as possible - but honestly, I am just happy to have found something that works.
I was given the green light to market the software as MINI-Motorsport software, but honestly, I don't care what it's called if it works! I wasn't trying to keep "the skinny" from anyone, I just haven't had the time to respons to any of the threads today due to setting up all of the logistics (as well as about a million other things going on). Sorry if it seemed that way.
The pricing from MINI-Motorsport will be initially $720, and I am working on getting that price lower, but don't see that in the forseeable future (although specials for the pulley party installs may be available).
The ECU tuning is now for the pulley specifically, and the redline will be 7200RPM for the pulley equipped cars based on the dyno info we came up with this past weekend. The ECU programming for the stock car will be 7500RPM.
cheese and andy were both correct, and the tach is just wrong. The early cars have a redline of 6750, while the new cars have a redline of 6950. After reviewing the dyno charts, this seems to coincide with what we've been seeing on the dyno (the gradiation is very vague - so a couple hundred RPM was tough to see until we changed the graph to show it better).
Daytona and Kev, I agree that there are more possibilities, and belive it or not, we are still researching other stuff (Digitune, Powerchip, 9FF, etc.) to determine if there is a better solution. I am just finally glad to see a package that makes the power that was claimed (or at least close). With this piece of the puzzle, a full package can be offered that really makes serious power without going internal.
Let me know if there are other questions.
Randy
(I would have paid to hear Rocky Mountain High from a bunch of New Yorkers!
)
This is the German tuning that EVOTech and we believe 9FF also uses. I have found it very successful, but this is the newest iteration, and we will be further refining it - after talking with Hartmut this morning.
The pricing will actually be a bit more competetive from MINI-Motorsport, and as you mentioned, a little more flexibnle with the options offered as far as exhaust and intake (ALTA/Rogue/BMP and Borla/Quicksilver/Magnaflow and when they are tested and prove to work, the UUC, Stebro and NRP).
After discussing the possibilities this morning with EVOTech, I am very excited. We will have this software available at the FL, Dallas, and SoCal installs. MINI-Motorsport will have the capability to do the flashes here in Denver (or on the road) with a proprietary program on a laptop and the required hardware (essentially some cables) within the next 2 weeks. In the interim, programming is done through Renntech/EVOTech USA in Florida (the same facility the pulley installs will be in). This is a simple process of sending your ECU FedEx to the facility where it is reprogrammed and sent back to you.
perfpow is gathering more information on the actual programmer in Germany to offer as many details as possible - but honestly, I am just happy to have found something that works.
I was given the green light to market the software as MINI-Motorsport software, but honestly, I don't care what it's called if it works! I wasn't trying to keep "the skinny" from anyone, I just haven't had the time to respons to any of the threads today due to setting up all of the logistics (as well as about a million other things going on). Sorry if it seemed that way.
The pricing from MINI-Motorsport will be initially $720, and I am working on getting that price lower, but don't see that in the forseeable future (although specials for the pulley party installs may be available).
The ECU tuning is now for the pulley specifically, and the redline will be 7200RPM for the pulley equipped cars based on the dyno info we came up with this past weekend. The ECU programming for the stock car will be 7500RPM.
cheese and andy were both correct, and the tach is just wrong. The early cars have a redline of 6750, while the new cars have a redline of 6950. After reviewing the dyno charts, this seems to coincide with what we've been seeing on the dyno (the gradiation is very vague - so a couple hundred RPM was tough to see until we changed the graph to show it better).
Daytona and Kev, I agree that there are more possibilities, and belive it or not, we are still researching other stuff (Digitune, Powerchip, 9FF, etc.) to determine if there is a better solution. I am just finally glad to see a package that makes the power that was claimed (or at least close). With this piece of the puzzle, a full package can be offered that really makes serious power without going internal.
Let me know if there are other questions.
Randy
(I would have paid to hear Rocky Mountain High from a bunch of New Yorkers!
)
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 116
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Great news, just trying to keep all these products straight. I am glad that this solution is working.
On the pricing how long will you offer the deal? Is this a group buy or seperate?
_________________
MCSHP
Check out our Quest For HP
http://www.mcshp.org
On the pricing how long will you offer the deal? Is this a group buy or seperate?
_________________
MCSHP
Check out our Quest For HP
http://www.mcshp.org
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Cool, looking forward to seeing more testing results!
Speaking of results, MCSHP, why did you not take down your unsupported "AS TESTED AT WHEELS" numbers for the "Mini Madness Stage I" and "Mini Madness Stage II"?
On April 16, MCSHP wrote:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&start=125
Speaking of results, MCSHP, why did you not take down your unsupported "AS TESTED AT WHEELS" numbers for the "Mini Madness Stage I" and "Mini Madness Stage II"?
On April 16, MCSHP wrote:
If it makes you feel better I will remove it and post it again when I post the sheets.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
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From: Toronto, Canada
>>The ECU tuning is now for the pulley specifically, and the redline will be 7200RPM for the pulley equipped cars based on the dyno info we came up with this past weekend. The ECU programming for the stock car will be 7500RPM.
>>
Randy, any plans to retest the ECU after a couple of tanks of gas? I know it's hard to compare one set of dyno results to another on different days, however because of the nature of the ECU on the MCS I'd be curious if the results would change significantly.
Great work. Can't wait to see it.
Cheers,
Paul
>>
Randy, any plans to retest the ECU after a couple of tanks of gas? I know it's hard to compare one set of dyno results to another on different days, however because of the nature of the ECU on the MCS I'd be curious if the results would change significantly.
Great work. Can't wait to see it.
Cheers,
Paul
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From: Denver
Paul,
Absolutely. I have already gone through one full tank, and I'll be doing another baseline for the throttle body (which will be the same set-up) then doing throttle body runs. That will give me another baseline with the ECU - I'll post the results. One of the things I was happy with on Saturday's runs was the consistency of the numbers with multiple runs. We'll see what happens over time - I am very optimistic now.
As far as keeping the products straight, that is very hard to do, as there are really only a few tuning companies out three that do the actual software programming. The few that do the writing sell the product to several different companies, who market it as their own. Being that it comes from Europe, it gets even murkier as to who is actually doing the stuff. As I said before, I don't care who writes it, as long as 1. I have access to it and 2. it works!
Absolutely. I have already gone through one full tank, and I'll be doing another baseline for the throttle body (which will be the same set-up) then doing throttle body runs. That will give me another baseline with the ECU - I'll post the results. One of the things I was happy with on Saturday's runs was the consistency of the numbers with multiple runs. We'll see what happens over time - I am very optimistic now.
As far as keeping the products straight, that is very hard to do, as there are really only a few tuning companies out three that do the actual software programming. The few that do the writing sell the product to several different companies, who market it as their own. Being that it comes from Europe, it gets even murkier as to who is actually doing the stuff. As I said before, I don't care who writes it, as long as 1. I have access to it and 2. it works!
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, NH
>>>>What I would really like to see is a hookup for my palm pilot so I can download different ECU programming into the chip from the OBDII port. That way I can tap the "stock" ECU program and take it in for service... then flash it with pulley/whatever-else-I-have-by-then programming. Plus that way, like M3NTAL_Kev wants, we can change chip configurations to optimise the fuel we have. Am I dreaming or do people who know more about ECUs think this is something that could happen? I say a palm pilot because it's small enough to always have with you unlike a laptop which you probably wouldn't carry around as often. Andy are you listening
For my motorcycle (Triumph Daytona 955i) I have a piggyback for the fuel injection that allows you to completely remap your fuel map via a laptop. Of course you kindof need to have a dyno to do the proper testing but I like the idea of being to flash my own ECU in case I'm running different fuel or get new upgrades. This combined with a diagnostics tool would be great.
Randy: Great work! Keep us posted on any new developments.
-Chris
For my motorcycle (Triumph Daytona 955i) I have a piggyback for the fuel injection that allows you to completely remap your fuel map via a laptop. Of course you kindof need to have a dyno to do the proper testing but I like the idea of being to flash my own ECU in case I'm running different fuel or get new upgrades. This combined with a diagnostics tool would be great.
Randy: Great work! Keep us posted on any new developments.
-Chris
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 104
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From: Chicago, Il
Great job Randy!! It's great to hear that finally something available for those who want to piece together their upgrades. I do have a questions tho. With all the above mentioned mods, what would the 0-60, 1/4 mile times be, compared to stock? BTW I think I will have to drive out to Denver sometime to get the mods and to enjoy the scenery.
Peter
Peter
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 289
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From: Northern VA
Based upon the graphs that Andy's showed us of Acceleration vs Speed for each of the gears, why is everyone so interested in increasing the redline? If i remember correctly, at some point before redline, the acceleration of the next gear surpasses the acceleration you'd get at redline. Did that make sense? Does this change with the pulley/exhaust/intake/ecu/any combo thereof? I'm interested to hear why there's this obsession with redline...
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 116
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>>Cool, looking forward to seeing more testing results!
>>
>>Speaking of results, MCSHP, why did you not take down your unsupported "AS TESTED AT WHEELS" numbers for the "Mini Madness Stage I" and "Mini Madness Stage II"?
>>
Sorry Andyman but my computer at home with my pages crashed so its taking me some time to rebuild everything from backup. I will remove it! :smile:
To add to my week my supercharger belt decided to move a tooth over and shred itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had to tow my Mini home.
I think that the lip on the outside will need to be larger (JLM are you out there... calling JLM)
I think I will have to brake out the camera for this one, you guys gotta see this belt
I overnighted a different style pulley, so I should have it today.
>>
>>Speaking of results, MCSHP, why did you not take down your unsupported "AS TESTED AT WHEELS" numbers for the "Mini Madness Stage I" and "Mini Madness Stage II"?
>>
Sorry Andyman but my computer at home with my pages crashed so its taking me some time to rebuild everything from backup. I will remove it! :smile:
To add to my week my supercharger belt decided to move a tooth over and shred itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had to tow my Mini home.
I think that the lip on the outside will need to be larger (JLM are you out there... calling JLM)
I think I will have to brake out the camera for this one, you guys gotta see this belt
I overnighted a different style pulley, so I should have it today.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
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From: NY NY
there are practically 100 modded pulleys out there intstalled and yours is the first to have a belt problem that I have heard of. It might be possible to add a belt guide lip at the front (its already at the back) and or increse the size of the lips, but i would suspect an alignment issue in your case. It would will wear out the belt if mis-aligned, even with lips.
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 41
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From: Lincoln, NE
Randy-
Is the $720.00 just for the ECU upgrade? You are getting me in a lot of trouble with the wife Haven't even put the deposit down on my S yet and I'm already looking at $1800.00+ in mods!
Looks like I will have to take my S straight from the dealer to Denver!
Is the $720.00 just for the ECU upgrade? You are getting me in a lot of trouble with the wife
Haven't even put the deposit down on my S yet and I'm already looking at $1800.00+ in mods!Looks like I will have to take my S straight from the dealer to Denver!
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
>>Anybody know how this ecu compares to what Hartge has used to get their MCS to 210 hp. Or is it the same. They seemed to get a lot of hp from very little mods.>>>
Actually, it sounds like the ECU Randy is talking about is better. With just an intake, pulley and Randy's ECU, I'll have around 205 at the crank. Just 5 less than Hartage with less mods b/c the Hartge kit actually modifies the supercharger beyond the pulley. And if sold separately, the Hartge ECU would probably cost more!
Actually, it sounds like the ECU Randy is talking about is better. With just an intake, pulley and Randy's ECU, I'll have around 205 at the crank. Just 5 less than Hartage with less mods b/c the Hartge kit actually modifies the supercharger beyond the pulley. And if sold separately, the Hartge ECU would probably cost more!
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 25
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From: Southern California
>>randy:
>>great news on the ecu! is it going to be flashable via rs232 or require sending in the cpu?
>>
>>i would suspect knock is retarding the ignition at that 7200 notch. Can your software track the timing?
Um, what?
ok, so I'm no techhead and new to the MINI area, but I'm glad Randy is good about making it sound simple because this just blows my mind.
D.
>>great news on the ecu! is it going to be flashable via rs232 or require sending in the cpu?
>>
>>i would suspect knock is retarding the ignition at that 7200 notch. Can your software track the timing?
Um, what?
ok, so I'm no techhead and new to the MINI area, but I'm glad Randy is good about making it sound simple because this just blows my mind.
D.
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From: Denver
Albert,
Yes it will work with 91 octane. You could put lower in it for an emergency, but you would probably bounce off the knock sensor (which prevents you from doing any harm to the motor) - and your performance would be seriously degraded.
You really have the same issue with the stock ECU using lower grade fuel.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Randy
Yes it will work with 91 octane. You could put lower in it for an emergency, but you would probably bounce off the knock sensor (which prevents you from doing any harm to the motor) - and your performance would be seriously degraded.
You really have the same issue with the stock ECU using lower grade fuel.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Randy