Drivetrain How to Reduce Power
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Valenica, CA
The throttle plate restrictor sonds like the best way to limit the power level, but as others have said a 16 year old can crash any car made. It all depends on ability and training. I had the fortune of having a mother that used to race cars when she was younger so I was taught how to control a car properly and avoid accidents, but this never slowed me doen. I still managed 14 moving violations from the ages of 16-18
, almost every single one being speeding. I never had an accident or even a close call but it still didn't slow me down. Even the fact that the juvinal court judge knew me on sight didn't slow me down. If he's going to speed he'll speed, no way around that aside from not letting him drive. Make him take real driving school courses, not just drivers ed. Make sure he knows how to really drive a car, not just turn on the key and make it move. At least that way even if he does speed he'll have a much better idea of what to do when something goes wrong and hopefully have more respect for the limits of the car and be able to recognize them, especially in the rain.
, almost every single one being speeding. I never had an accident or even a close call but it still didn't slow me down. Even the fact that the juvinal court judge knew me on sight didn't slow me down. If he's going to speed he'll speed, no way around that aside from not letting him drive. Make him take real driving school courses, not just drivers ed. Make sure he knows how to really drive a car, not just turn on the key and make it move. At least that way even if he does speed he'll have a much better idea of what to do when something goes wrong and hopefully have more respect for the limits of the car and be able to recognize them, especially in the rain.
I'm not sure what the best way to handle a 16 yr old with a quick car is. I had a pretty fast car when I was 16 and honestly only did a few stupid things in it that could have potentially hurt me.
I think that your thoughts of this happening in the rain are correct. I almost put my car in the ditch underestimating traction in the wet.
When I was 17 my father bought me driving lessons at a local racing school. While this raised my confidense it also taught me what I could and couldn't do. I don't think I drove any faster but I was alot safer.
Overall I think the restrictor plate, a long while behind the wheel with you in the passengers seat or driving lessons is really the way to go. There is alot to be said for being a car in a parking lot with 2-3" of standing water in it, and an instructor telling you... "Ok now ease off the gas, slowly but firmly apply the break, and turn the wheel as hard as you can."
That is what truly showed me my limitations in an car.
gl
I think that your thoughts of this happening in the rain are correct. I almost put my car in the ditch underestimating traction in the wet.
When I was 17 my father bought me driving lessons at a local racing school. While this raised my confidense it also taught me what I could and couldn't do. I don't think I drove any faster but I was alot safer.
Overall I think the restrictor plate, a long while behind the wheel with you in the passengers seat or driving lessons is really the way to go. There is alot to be said for being a car in a parking lot with 2-3" of standing water in it, and an instructor telling you... "Ok now ease off the gas, slowly but firmly apply the break, and turn the wheel as hard as you can."
That is what truly showed me my limitations in an car.
gl
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
For the cost and headache of what you're proposing, you could just as easily invest in a good set of driving lessons. The best way to prevent an accident is to teach him how to drive fast. Kids are going to drive fast, whether you like it or not. You can do 120 mph in a Toyota corrola... it just takes a little longer to get there. All you're going to do by reducing the HP on the car is limit his ability to get out of a situation that requires throttle input. You can't just limit the HP of a car that was designed to have 168 HP down to 125 and hope it will behave exactly the same...
Take him to a parking lot and set up some cones, and let him have at it in the rain, snow, whatever. Take him to the race track and let him drive around the track a bit, take him to auto cross events. That did more for my driving ability than any HP restriction would have ever done.
Take him to a parking lot and set up some cones, and let him have at it in the rain, snow, whatever. Take him to the race track and let him drive around the track a bit, take him to auto cross events. That did more for my driving ability than any HP restriction would have ever done.
OK, call me conservative.....
I live in the Pacific Northwest, where the streets are rain slickened in the winter. I will be teaching my (new driver) son about driving fast the proper way (at the track). But until I am sure that he will not wrap the car around a pole in the wet, I do not want to hand him the keys to an '04 MCS with the power it has to offer. No flames please-- I can remember being 16 all too well!!
So I am looking for an easy and reversible way to cut down the power in an MCS to about 125 hp. (I know, I know... but I don't want an MC). The simplest way (I think) is to put a restrictor in the exhaust. I was thinking of inserting a metal plate with a smaller hole in it, just south of the cat. An exhaust flow restrictor would leave the low end torque (mostly) unaffected, I am guessing up to about 5000 RPM, and progressively cut out the fun at the top end. The metal plate would be cheap to modify if the first size is too small or too big.
3 questions. First, is there an easier way to reduce the power to about 125 hp? Secondly, will restricting the exhaust cause OBDII to throw codes/check light errors at me? Finally, any long term damage to internals?
I live in the Pacific Northwest, where the streets are rain slickened in the winter. I will be teaching my (new driver) son about driving fast the proper way (at the track). But until I am sure that he will not wrap the car around a pole in the wet, I do not want to hand him the keys to an '04 MCS with the power it has to offer. No flames please-- I can remember being 16 all too well!!
So I am looking for an easy and reversible way to cut down the power in an MCS to about 125 hp. (I know, I know... but I don't want an MC). The simplest way (I think) is to put a restrictor in the exhaust. I was thinking of inserting a metal plate with a smaller hole in it, just south of the cat. An exhaust flow restrictor would leave the low end torque (mostly) unaffected, I am guessing up to about 5000 RPM, and progressively cut out the fun at the top end. The metal plate would be cheap to modify if the first size is too small or too big.
3 questions. First, is there an easier way to reduce the power to about 125 hp? Secondly, will restricting the exhaust cause OBDII to throw codes/check light errors at me? Finally, any long term damage to internals?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Like I said...monitor your kids behavior...they can kill themselves with any beater when no one is looking...
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Like most are saying, it does not matter how much power the car has, it's the driver. It's all about the driver.
Karting is a pretty good way to teach driving manners along with driving skills. You need to finish to win & you need to respect other competetors that you don't like.
Karting is a pretty good way to teach driving manners along with driving skills. You need to finish to win & you need to respect other competetors that you don't like.
There is a Software company (I think its Shark but not sure, UK based) that was featured in a MINI magazine article about a year ago. WHat hey mentioned could be done is install a Cooper (115bhp) or One (95?bhp) ECU map onto an MCS and the ECU won't allow the SC to kick in effectively cutting the HP. (little over $100)
Also there is a company that had an artilce in Autoweek that offered an OBD-II plug-in that 1) had a top speed limiter (so you could stop him at the 55 limit if you so desired) 2) recorded the driving information (how quick acceleration, braking; how much time at each speed; etc.) so you could easily check up and make sure he was driving right and 3) it would be able to note if the product was removed so you'd know if it was unplugged and he drove without it. ($75- 100)
I also like the idea of a restrictor plate that M7 put forth, that can be done for less that $10
But as noted none of these will prevent an accident, but would temporarily curtail the need for speed and the possibility of a rookie lesson being learned at the wrong time. Heck I remember being 16 driving a car that had at best 85hp, I was on my way to school, snow plows weren't out yet changed lanes, locked up the right front (filled wheel well with ice and slush so it stop spinning and turning), three spins before I was done, but because I didn't over ocrrect I manged to keep in out of the ditch and keep going (albeit a little dizzier), thank god there wasn't any other cars around.
Teach him right, cut the HP so the world comes at him a little slower, and show him lots of the UK safety commercials (many available through youtube and google video) so he can see the effects of getting t- boned or wrapping a car around a tree or hitting a child chasing a soccer ball. Put one of those decals MSFITOY posted on the rear window. Hope this helps.
Also there is a company that had an artilce in Autoweek that offered an OBD-II plug-in that 1) had a top speed limiter (so you could stop him at the 55 limit if you so desired) 2) recorded the driving information (how quick acceleration, braking; how much time at each speed; etc.) so you could easily check up and make sure he was driving right and 3) it would be able to note if the product was removed so you'd know if it was unplugged and he drove without it. ($75- 100)
I also like the idea of a restrictor plate that M7 put forth, that can be done for less that $10
But as noted none of these will prevent an accident, but would temporarily curtail the need for speed and the possibility of a rookie lesson being learned at the wrong time. Heck I remember being 16 driving a car that had at best 85hp, I was on my way to school, snow plows weren't out yet changed lanes, locked up the right front (filled wheel well with ice and slush so it stop spinning and turning), three spins before I was done, but because I didn't over ocrrect I manged to keep in out of the ditch and keep going (albeit a little dizzier), thank god there wasn't any other cars around.
Teach him right, cut the HP so the world comes at him a little slower, and show him lots of the UK safety commercials (many available through youtube and google video) so he can see the effects of getting t- boned or wrapping a car around a tree or hitting a child chasing a soccer ball. Put one of those decals MSFITOY posted on the rear window. Hope this helps.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
well i would try a couple of differnt things...
1. TALK to your son! Tell him and teach him about respect for cars, physics and for his parents! Then take him out on the roads and show him about 80% of what you or the car can do... make him try with you in the car. obviously you will want to work up the speed. if you can get all of the "teenage" mentality out of him with you in the car... its less likely to happen when you are not in the car. allow him to learn and experiance what the car can and cannot due... this will kill the curiousity.
2. sign him up for a high performance drivers education school. They will teach him how to drive safely and quickly.
These may sound like terrible ideas to you... but here is the bottom line... your kid will undo whatever it is you do to your car. If speed is his thing... he will undo whatever device you put in the car. If he can't he will just drive like a maniac with 125hp. It wont matter... a car with 125hp can still go 100mph + If you think he is going to speed he definetly will. All you can do is control and direct this energy in a positive direction. At least give him the tools to understand how cars and physics work... give him the capability that if he does something stupid... he will get himself out of trouble... OR BEST yet he will learn what is STUPID! What he experiances holds so much more weight than what you could ever tell him.
3. put one of those little tracking devices on the car where you can hop on line and monitor his speed... if he is driving like a lunatic... take the keys away...
hope i helped...
1. TALK to your son! Tell him and teach him about respect for cars, physics and for his parents! Then take him out on the roads and show him about 80% of what you or the car can do... make him try with you in the car. obviously you will want to work up the speed. if you can get all of the "teenage" mentality out of him with you in the car... its less likely to happen when you are not in the car. allow him to learn and experiance what the car can and cannot due... this will kill the curiousity.
2. sign him up for a high performance drivers education school. They will teach him how to drive safely and quickly.
These may sound like terrible ideas to you... but here is the bottom line... your kid will undo whatever it is you do to your car. If speed is his thing... he will undo whatever device you put in the car. If he can't he will just drive like a maniac with 125hp. It wont matter... a car with 125hp can still go 100mph + If you think he is going to speed he definetly will. All you can do is control and direct this energy in a positive direction. At least give him the tools to understand how cars and physics work... give him the capability that if he does something stupid... he will get himself out of trouble... OR BEST yet he will learn what is STUPID! What he experiances holds so much more weight than what you could ever tell him.
3. put one of those little tracking devices on the car where you can hop on line and monitor his speed... if he is driving like a lunatic... take the keys away...
hope i helped...
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,354
Likes: 0
From: Overthemountain, AL
If you are this worried I would really suggest not giving your son a Mini as his 1st car. To me a Mini could offer a non-experienced driver a false sense of security in their driving ability. As many have said no amout of HP reduction is going to stop a 16 year old from having an accident or, well, driving like a 16 year old. Talk & teach are your best & only options. Frankly is a Mini really that much faster than a Honda? Not really, it just handles better.
Heck I am 41 & my Mini makes me want to take curves faster than I ever have before just to see if I can. I can't (& don't want to) imagine what kinda of crazy stunts I would have tried in it at 16
Heck I am 41 & my Mini makes me want to take curves faster than I ever have before just to see if I can. I can't (& don't want to) imagine what kinda of crazy stunts I would have tried in it at 16
I haven't read all the posts of advice
Enroll him in a safe driver school and buy a; http://www.davisnet.com/drive/produc...asp?pnum=08211
Or find something like this in your area;
http://www.bsr-inc.com/AAS.HTM
Or find something like this in your area;
http://www.bsr-inc.com/AAS.HTM
My son is pretty conservative (takes after his mother) but if there is not enough trust then don't let him drive alone! He must learn that he must earn the right to drive the car.
Having said that as a father there is only so much you can do. all you can do is teach and hope at the end of the day that he will apply what he has learned.
My son just turned 16 and his daily driver is a MCS (see signature below). All of the mods were done together as part of the education process. Some time this year we will go to an Auto-X togther and driving school.
OK, call me conservative.....
I live in the Pacific NorthWest, where the streets are rain slickened in the winter. I will be teaching my (new driver) son about driving fast the proper way (at the track). But until I am sure that he will not wrap the car around a pole in the wet, I do not want to hand him the keys to an '04 MCS with the power it has to offer. No flames please-- I can remember being 16 all too well!!
So I am looking for an easy and reversible way to cut down the power in an MCS to about 125 hp. (I know, I know... but I don't want an MC). The simplest way (I think) is to put a restrictor in the exhaust. I was thinking of inserting a metal plate with a smaller hole in it, just south of the cat. An exhaust flow restrictor would leave the low end torque (mostly) unaffected, I am guessing up to about 5000 RPM, and progressively cut out the fun at the top end. The metal plate would be cheap to modify if the first size is too small or too big.
3 questions. First, is there an easier way to reduce the power to about 125 hp? Secondly, will restricting the exhaust cause OBDII to throw codes/check light errors at me? Finally, any long term damage to internals?
I live in the Pacific NorthWest, where the streets are rain slickened in the winter. I will be teaching my (new driver) son about driving fast the proper way (at the track). But until I am sure that he will not wrap the car around a pole in the wet, I do not want to hand him the keys to an '04 MCS with the power it has to offer. No flames please-- I can remember being 16 all too well!!
So I am looking for an easy and reversible way to cut down the power in an MCS to about 125 hp. (I know, I know... but I don't want an MC). The simplest way (I think) is to put a restrictor in the exhaust. I was thinking of inserting a metal plate with a smaller hole in it, just south of the cat. An exhaust flow restrictor would leave the low end torque (mostly) unaffected, I am guessing up to about 5000 RPM, and progressively cut out the fun at the top end. The metal plate would be cheap to modify if the first size is too small or too big.
3 questions. First, is there an easier way to reduce the power to about 125 hp? Secondly, will restricting the exhaust cause OBDII to throw codes/check light errors at me? Finally, any long term damage to internals?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
You could still do SO MUCH damage at 80 mph.....speed limiting isnt gonna stop a 16 year old in a car that handles like the MINI does.
Car is limited to 80mph...the kid hears that his car can really handle well from one of his friends.....kid goes around tight corner going 45mph (well under the 80 mph limit). He overcooks the corner, over-corrects the steering (due to lack of driving knowledge), and goes off into the ditch.
Like i said....get the car down to 125 hp and limit it to 80mph and you can still cause problems. The truth is...going 45mph and 0-60 in 10 seconds can still be dangerous in the wrong hands....you just need to make them the right hands by educating him.
Car is limited to 80mph...the kid hears that his car can really handle well from one of his friends.....kid goes around tight corner going 45mph (well under the 80 mph limit). He overcooks the corner, over-corrects the steering (due to lack of driving knowledge), and goes off into the ditch.
Like i said....get the car down to 125 hp and limit it to 80mph and you can still cause problems. The truth is...going 45mph and 0-60 in 10 seconds can still be dangerous in the wrong hands....you just need to make them the right hands by educating him.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 30
From: Quebec City, Qc
The right way to do it would be to ask MTH to change the rev limiter to 4000 rpm. That's the way the ZR1 valet key works. The bright side is you could later easily upload other software (even the stock one) yourself to reverse the mod.
But that just means the MINI would be wrapped around a pole when going downhill rather than uphill... so it would be best of all to invest in a driving school for the little tyke.
But that just means the MINI would be wrapped around a pole when going downhill rather than uphill... so it would be best of all to invest in a driving school for the little tyke.
Exactly what I was going to post....
A lower rev limiter should do it...
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
From: Texas
IMHO, kids will be kids, which is why I am heading up the BMWCCA Foundation's Street Survival School in our area (sponsored by Tire Rack!). The school equips them better than driver's ed ever could and teaches them car control skills and accident avoidance techniques... At least that way, they're more capable drivers if (and when) they get into trouble...
You can request a Street Survival School here - and trust me, the BMWCCA Foundation leans heavily on chapters to do this if a school is requested:
http://www.streetsurvival.org/street...oolRequest.asp
Or, get in touch with your local BMWCCA chapter and ask them for about upcoming events like the Street Survival School or Car Control Clinic...
http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Tem...ion®ionID=1
And, if that doesn't work, check with the board MTH (software) rep about tuning the DSC/ASC to kick in earlier (although that might get him/her in trouble, too, when they pull out in front of someone and can't get moving...)
You can request a Street Survival School here - and trust me, the BMWCCA Foundation leans heavily on chapters to do this if a school is requested:
http://www.streetsurvival.org/street...oolRequest.asp
Or, get in touch with your local BMWCCA chapter and ask them for about upcoming events like the Street Survival School or Car Control Clinic...
http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Tem...ion®ionID=1
And, if that doesn't work, check with the board MTH (software) rep about tuning the DSC/ASC to kick in earlier (although that might get him/her in trouble, too, when they pull out in front of someone and can't get moving...)
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
From: bryan tx
i didnt read all of these.. but speaking from a MC owner. 125 hp is plentyyy to go fast in a small car.
on another note, he will most likely be interested in modding it. SOO im guessing oversized pullys exc. wouldnt work for long unless you keep a keen eye on things. Perhaps just reroute the belt so the supercharger wont function at all?? Im not sure if that would have negative affects on everything else though.
best bet is an ecu tune
on another note, he will most likely be interested in modding it. SOO im guessing oversized pullys exc. wouldnt work for long unless you keep a keen eye on things. Perhaps just reroute the belt so the supercharger wont function at all?? Im not sure if that would have negative affects on everything else though.
best bet is an ecu tune
Coordinator :: Alabama Motoring Society & South East
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 2
From: Burning-Ham Alabama
Rather than trying to fix the car, how about putting the responsibility on the driver with a GPS monitoring system? You'll know where and how fast your child drives and if agreed upon limits are exceeded you can take away the keys.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
From: bryan tx
and if you take him to the track he will have something to lookforward too. and probably see the time and place for driving fast
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
From: bryan tx
I agree, my dad and I autocross all the local events together. He doesnt always run, but he will atleast ride with me. It definatly is a bonding thing =]
now the expensive part... it can get pricey if you make it a hobby hahah