Has anyone measured the peak temps inside the Alta CAI box? If so, how much warmer than ambient does it get? I was thinking of placing a thin heat barrier cloth on the outside of the metal CAI box. Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies sells an inexpensive Adhesive Backed Aluminized Heat Barrier Cloth which withstands radiant heat up to 2000 degrees F. Central Coast Coopers in Oxnard, CA has done some "cool" work by wrapping the intake tube with heat barrier cloth. All comments are greatly appreciated.

 

Under motion you'll see, on average ~10ºF above ambient.

There was a big thread about this not too long ago.

I remember now. It was buried in the HAI thread

 

That's the same material I've applied under the DFIC...

 

We use that stuff everywhere - brake lines, abs lines, underbonnet, etc. - good stuff. I wouldn't want the silicone wrapped as it doesn't transfer heat anyway, but the metal box would be a good idea.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Hey Randy Good to see you back...

 

+1 Glad to have your knowledge here again.

 

Forgot to include this in my original reply.
Wrapping the intake tube helps in reducing localized heat to the tube. Not a lot.
It didn't impact IAT in any measurable way.

There are more attractive sleeves you lace up that do the same thing and are probably more attractive/expensive

 

Insulating the box alone does wonders. All of my data and techniques (and photos are in the HAI thread, along with the work of several others. I couldn't be happier with the results. Several methods were used, one car was dynoed after ward, many of us just used thermometers, the Dr. had OBD data logging at his disposal. Everybody showed at least some type of of consistant temperature drop, I'm waiting until the air gets a little more chilly to see how a winter temp differance holds up against our summer testing.

 

Randy - great to see you back. Would you use the heat barrier stuff on both the inside and outside of the box?

 

+10 at this point im sure on the return of randy but still

I know I for one am very tentative about putting anything on the inside of my airbox. I just have these nightmare visions about something comming loose and putting a few threads of insulation past the filter and into the tb. Any one have any comments on this?

 

Thanks guys!

I would only put it on the outside not to remove any volume from the filter on the inside. It only needs to be in one spot - there is heat going in one direction.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

I wouldn't worry about getting something like this past the filter. I am not sure why putting it on the inside would be a bad thing. Most of us have opened up the rear of the intake to get air from the cowl area. So I can't see how putting a thin material like this would be detrimental to the performance.

 

If you have a choice of inside or outside, I would just use the outside to reduce loss of volume inside the box. You are right though Scott! It wouldnt hurt other than that.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Another small piece to consider would be the reflective properties if any.
If there is an ability to reflect or reject heat as well as insulate then outside of the box would be the ideal. That is your highest and most constant heat source and you also wouldn't want to reflect heat back towards your filter if you use it on the inside.

I've tested this a bunch and the heat drops inside the CAI box pretty quick even with small forward motion, say 10mph. At 25mph it's flow cooling is very effective.

 

I just purchased Aluminized, Adhesive Backed, Reflective Heat Barrier Cloth from Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies. See page 94 of their on-line catalog. The price for a 12x24 inch sheet is $18.99 and for a 1.5 inch x 15 foot roll is $16.99. I plan to only insulate the outside of the box.

 

I really mean it when I say read the HAI thread, many of these questions have already been answered. There was some interesting information found as to where and how insulation was placed. As far as temps gp it doesn't really matter, inthe insulatio will be the about the same, inside the box gives a quick throttle response and reduced the overall noise of the CAI. placing it on the ouside gave more power in the high end, but it took longer for the power to kick in. I did both in and outside the box leaving about 1/2 inch of space around the filter, I have about double the amount of insulation, and a very good comprimise between response and power. Even look at the JCW, the intake simply doesn't gain anything from all the extra air until you approach WOT. Please read through the HAI thread, all of this has been explained in detail.

CAIs in general are effective when moving, the insulation protects from heatsoak in traffic, at stoplights, in the pits. Temos skyrocket as soo as the MINI stops moving, effective insulation keeps the temps cold all the time so you get the most out of the system. Also if not done right, the insulation can cause a situation like the stck system where temps go up slowly but come down even slower, to the point where the intake air is over ambient after extended driving.

 

i read that entire hai post thread by thread... it's a good use of information but there is so much speculation and so few cold hard answers that it's hard to determine what is the correct path.

 

i was talkin' to a guy at ktr today and he said one of their tuners uses that nasa stuff (the gold stuff) to wrap his air bow . it reflects 80% of all heat to it at the tune of over 100 .00 a sq. ft. but he swares by it .

 

Yea, they use it a lot on the high dollar enduro cars too.

I'll pass

 

The stuff from Pegasus is less than $10.00 per square foot I'll try that first

 

This has been a very interesting thread as I didn't originally read the HAI thread since I had an Alta CAI and I thought it only had to do with Randy's CAI at WMS, guess I was wrong all the way around.

So, I bought some of that reflective stuff at Pegasus Racing just now and plan on doing what Larry Clemens has done as well as my hero MSFITOY under his DFIC. Keep these secrets (at least to me) continuing to come, I love them.

Paul

 

Oh, and Larry, maybe I'll see you at the next SCMM first saturday breakfast in Malibu so I can check out your heat sheilding on your CAI. OR, you could take pictures and bless us all.

Paul

 

I was going to get my Alta cai coated by Swain Technologies, but it was going to cost almost $100 and would take 10 days (and I live down the road from the place!). So I took an inexpensive diy approach and bought some high temperature paint from Cool It by Thermotec. It says that is resists temps up to 2000 degrees. Haven't used it yet though.

 

As a side thought, I’ve been thinking about it for a long time and I think you can go too far with blocking radiant heat from the engine. I know this sounds crazy to some, but the temperature of the intake charge isn't the only factor that effects performance. What about humidity? Doesn’t it need to be considered also? From what I read about the MINI’s ecu in MC2, the humidity of the intake charge is monitored by the ecu and factored into how it manages the engine. And from what I remember about physics, the dry radiant heat could reduce the humidity of the outside air. Now, for a race car I suppose that this probably doesn’t matter that much b/c the heat radiating from the track could reduce the humidity of the outside air at track level. But for everyday driving, especially when it's very humid, it may be good to allow some radiant heat.

Is this a stretch? I don’t mind being wrong, but sometimes the best ideas have come when someone questions a common belief.

 

Jay,

Great thought process - I like it. In reality, the MINI engine creates so much heat that unless you live in the Amazon, I don't think the humidity is going to play a big role. We need to keep the intercooler runners untreated so they can radiate heat since we are concerned with the temp inside them (not keeping heat from the outside like the air intake), and same goes with the intercooler and intake manifold. The header would be good to keep heat in - so coating or wrapping it wouldn't be bad. I'd say anything up to the supercharger could be "heat treated" with good results, but the need to radiate heat after that leaves us plenty in the engine bay to reduce humidity.

Hope that helps!
Randy