Lets assume you've done the standard stuff (i.e., pulley, SW, CATback, injectors, wires, CAI). Now ... where to go for best bang for the buck? Yes, Randys exhaust is sweet but set that aside for now plz.

I read conflicting reports ...

Header? (Any emissions issues, codes thrown?)

IC? Some ppl say do it, others so little gain for $$

CAM?

Finally, new head w/cam but which one? Big bucks.

No need to comment on "lightened whatever (e.g., crank pulley, wheels, flywheel) or Twin charge.

THANKS for any and all input

 

I'm wondering the same. I'd say a head porting job, I'd like Webb's, but am thinking of doing it myself because aftermarket heads are expensive.

A header would be cool, I still need to see what gains if any I got from having the Pre-cat cut off a stock header I'm currently running, that cost me 80 bucks.

 

I bet you could find a good engine shop or motorcycle shop that would port the head for like 200 bucks or so.

 

All my readings have said the head is where the power is. But to do this costs big $. But there is also big hp gain from this.

Looking @ Randy's head he includes a cam at the same time. So it must be a good combo to add.

 

Being a proponent of market theory, if something is a good bang for the buck, it's already on your 'standard stuff' list. The rest are those willing to accept lower marginal returns for more net HP/TQ.

 

Correct. So I will rephrase.

The best bang for the buck for the rest of the stuff

 

That's right, forgot about the local shops . I've got to find a head first, I gotta be able to get it all back on in no more than a day.

 

Don't forget that this is a different type of market, where some buyers choose based on "smoothness" and "throttle response" even if horsepower results are less than an improvement.

 

"Bang-for-the-buck" discussions typically only want to address the power-enchanchment portion in the quest for improved performance...

At some point in this process, if suspension and braking is not accounted for, the full benefit of the increased power is not going to be realized. So, once the standard or usual things are done to increase hp, look in these other areas for an equivalent pursuit...

A stiffer rear sway bar, installed by oneself for 200 bucks, can yield quicker times through some twisties as compared to when the smaller SC pulley was installed, probaby for more than twice the price. Likewise, getting some more negative camber can do the same, but will not be as cheap...

For improved braking... the inexpensive way is to go with new pads and fluid. Also, the brake bushing kit to firm things-up is very affordable, a DIY, and does help. It's amazing how having the ability to stop or retard speed, repeatedly, with confidence, will make or allow one to drive much faster. These items are like a couple hundred bucks total, along with an afternoon of work, will make for a noteworthy difference... not to mention cleaner wheels going-forward (usually much less dust). And since prices approaching $1k are being pondered (some headers & ICs), for around the same, the Wilwood front BBK can be had. I got mine for 900 something and installed it myself. It also dropped like 11 lbs of weight...

Just trying to add, or remind us that this discussion should probably also look at some possible no-brainers in suspension and braking also...

 

Tony, I agree with you 100%. The car should be balanced between power, suspension and brakes. I didnt see a need to mention it because I was only looking at the power side now but that stuff is covered. I appreciate your thought though ... in fact, I really need new tires but after the winter ...
so back to the big buck, best bang for the big buck power is the quest without going turbo.

THANKS

 

Cool, np! Seriosuly though, if you need new tires now, and are driving in the rain or snow this Winter, I hope you don't wait too long. I'm in the mkt now (again), and the Pirelli P Zero M&S looks to be a real winner for an all season peformance tire. The price is not bad at the Tire Rack. Best to you.

 

Oh, I got the OEM All-seasons on and they are fine for our "mild" winter. Little bit of snow. In late winter looking for Real Tires

 

my bang/buck computer spat this out:

modded head: 20hp/$2,500 = 1/125
twin charger: 100hp/$5,000 = 1/50

I did the math.

 

Thanks but no TC

No need to comment on "lightened whatever (e.g., crank pulley, wheels, flywheel) or Twin charge.

How come nobody blueprints and balances MINI engines?

 

search "shortblock"

 

Oooh ... Pretty engines.

So how much are these Endyn heads? No prices on website or is this one of those things were if you got to task the price, you cant afford it?

 

dude after uve done pulleys,cai,exhaust,software,wires, the only real options are:

exhaust headers
i/c
cams and internals
etc

none of which are cheap!! so if ur looking bang for buck - do the math per jlm's post. ofcourse none will compare to the amounts gained from say, a 15pulley, but at this stage, nothing will (unles su look at lightned cranks flywheels etc)

just my 2c

 

OBX header...
No codes, more power, $200 delivered, but you'll need a shop to install. Gotta weld on a cat.

Matt

 

Thanks all for your input. Maybe someone can answer the following: I said originally"

IC? Some ppl say do it, others so little gain for $$

What is the considered opinion? Worth it or not?

CAM?

Without a head? Do it?

Finally, new head w/cam but which one? Big bucks.

Which one? I see Pilo, Webb, and Endyn (with no prices). WHICH is the BEST? Opinions are OK, I know they are no definitive answers.

Thanks

 

i think the issues of the head is that to gain max gains the entire engine must breathe better to match.. so big tb, header are all part of a head's gain... even with higher flow... a stock tb will hold back air, and air wouldnt go out as quickily as it should... that's why im staying away from the head unless i win the lottery

intercooler is a worthawhile proposition.... proving you live in an area that is extremely hot, or at least hot during the summer months, i have it, does it increase in hp? a tiny bit i can feel on the seat-of-the-pants feel... the intercooler also benefit if you run the engine hot. like on a track

i think the header makes the most sense.. obx or megan racing both are nice and economical

 

TonyB and I did some extensive testing on a GRS larger IC. Not really worth the $ for most people, and less power added than dynos report. The M7 scoop adds more air to the IC (stock or aftermarket) and this does provide benefit.

For the TBs, I did some logging, and on a motor with the stock head, I got NO HP improvement at all. I tested a 60 mm and a 62mm. I think this may help with headwork, but for a stock car, doesn't seem to do much.

A cam on the stock head will give some benefit. Don't know how much....

For the heads, it seems like Webb's is the best deal. $1800 for head and cam. But I don't remember if this includes larger valves, and the Ti valve retainers Pilo (?) sells definantly aren't on it...

If you want to go low buck, get a head off eBay, port at a local shop, and run the stock cam. You should be able to do this for <$600

FWIW...

Matt

 

This is GOOD info ...

1. The GRS opinion seems to conflict with Randys numbers. Why does he claim 10 HP at 83 degrees? and your not seeing any?
2. That is why I left TB off the list. That is for after a head. Even a local racing shop said forget about a TB
3. CAM might be an answer
4. But PIlos is $1000 more with all the goodies

THANKS!

 

I think your right. Headers are common bolton. My only concern was emission issues or throwing codes .... I dont need any headaches since its a daily driver!

THANKS

 

to add to Dr Obnxs data findings

u will note, that each additional part (t/b, cam, head work) individually does not add much to a stock engine.!! which is why u need to realise, is that if ur going to go for one modd (eg t/b) u will need to go for all of them to get the synergies working for a combined effect. ! (make sense?)

this is also noted at webbmotorsport.. (eg if u read the description on purchasing an item they say it will add xx hp / tq on a MODDED engine that has everything from A-Z ).

this goes with the I/C too.. ie on a stock engine.. not much benefit for $$ (coz the stock one is great already,), but full modded engine (internals etc) will really benefit from a bigger IC, coz heating is a big problem on mcs, esp if ur boosting the engine with pullies etc, the fact that its a TMIC already rings alarm bells.. not much we can do unless u wanna go FMIC.

if u dont want TMIC, then go for M7 ugly scoop (sorry just my opinion of it) + Alta air diverter with sprayer. combined effect of these two would be good.

remember mate, ur talknig about a MCS here - theres only so much we can do with out dumping too much cash. so either be happy with ur current mods and stop there, or drop some serious cash and go for it

 

YUP, I understand that. Thank you. Thats why doing the head w/cam and then TB makes sense.

As to the FMIC, Randys is sweet but WAY out of my league

ANYONE got Randy's FMIC?????