Drivetrain Screw the Dyno!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Man...you guys are no fun
I'm takin my Mini and going home
I'm takin my Mini and going home
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by SpiderX
This is not your freaking Biology or Chemistry homework......this is "hitting golf ***** with the boys"...... "man , you got a hold of that one." ........FUN people,.... were having FUN now.
they're warm-ups...btw..i dont have a scoop on my car right now
waiting for stoopid ups to show up
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
I used data from some runs done with beta Bim-Com, and have the time log down to 4 decimal places! I also have accurate engine speed data. Here are some results:
Ambient temp: 80 deg F
Altitude: @ +50 feet
Running conditions: WOT in 3d gear; several consecutive runs
3547 rpm - to - 5952 rpm 5.87 sec
3459 rpm - to - 6029 rpm 6.56 sec
3393 rpm - to - 6002 rpm 5.97 sec
3506 rpm - to - 6013 rpm 6.50 sec
These 4 runs averaged 6.23 sec, with starting and ending points averaging 3476 rpm and 5999 rpm.
I also calculated some elapsed times on several other occasions. These runs were not designed to assess elapsed time in just one gear, in that one run was done in 3d gear and the other with a shift to 4th. Of note, I lost 0.5 sec in my shift from 3d to 4th; there was an 1100 rpm loss; and it took @ 2 sec for the WOT position to return! WOW, I really need to work on that shifting!!! Even with that, the times with the shift appear better than 3d gear alone --- strange, indeed.
3d gear only
50 - to - 90 mph 8.97 sec
60 - to - 90 mph 6.8 sec
3d with shift to 4th at 87 mph
50 - to - 90 mph 8.14 sec
60 - to - 90 mph 6.55 sec
60 - to - 100 mph 8.79 sec
Data logging is a lot more accurate and safe than eyeballing the tach and using a stop watch. It certainly was fun. :smile:
Ambient temp: 80 deg F
Altitude: @ +50 feet
Running conditions: WOT in 3d gear; several consecutive runs
3547 rpm - to - 5952 rpm 5.87 sec
3459 rpm - to - 6029 rpm 6.56 sec
3393 rpm - to - 6002 rpm 5.97 sec
3506 rpm - to - 6013 rpm 6.50 sec
These 4 runs averaged 6.23 sec, with starting and ending points averaging 3476 rpm and 5999 rpm.
I also calculated some elapsed times on several other occasions. These runs were not designed to assess elapsed time in just one gear, in that one run was done in 3d gear and the other with a shift to 4th. Of note, I lost 0.5 sec in my shift from 3d to 4th; there was an 1100 rpm loss; and it took @ 2 sec for the WOT position to return! WOW, I really need to work on that shifting!!! Even with that, the times with the shift appear better than 3d gear alone --- strange, indeed.
3d gear only
50 - to - 90 mph 8.97 sec
60 - to - 90 mph 6.8 sec
3d with shift to 4th at 87 mph
50 - to - 90 mph 8.14 sec
60 - to - 90 mph 6.55 sec
60 - to - 100 mph 8.79 sec
Data logging is a lot more accurate and safe than eyeballing the tach and using a stop watch. It certainly was fun. :smile:
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Bob W
I got to get one of these - Will Smith, Independence Day
Wow nice data
I did a few 3.5 - 6K runs (3rd gear) with the best being 6.15....others were very close and repeatable.... This is was the completely scientific method of holding the Timex "triathlon" in one hand get the car to what I was absolutely sure was dead on 3500
and then punching it simutaneously hitting the watch in calibrated, lock-step precision....and then at the exact moment in space and time when my engine spooled up to 6000 RPM with all the accuracy of a "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" Bulova time piece:impatient , I pressed the "stop" button and came up with the accuracy of measuement that matches your data logger.
But.....I had fun
btw .... my roll ons were in 5th gear 60-90 tonight they were 7.56 and 7.87. The same clinical procedures were fastidiously followed.....after all "this is for posterity" - Princess Bride
I got to get one of these - Will Smith, Independence Day
Wow nice data
I did a few 3.5 - 6K runs (3rd gear) with the best being 6.15....others were very close and repeatable.... This is was the completely scientific method of holding the Timex "triathlon" in one hand get the car to what I was absolutely sure was dead on 3500
and then punching it simutaneously hitting the watch in calibrated, lock-step precision....and then at the exact moment in space and time when my engine spooled up to 6000 RPM with all the accuracy of a "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" Bulova time piece:impatient , I pressed the "stop" button and came up with the accuracy of measuement that matches your data logger. But.....I had fun
btw .... my roll ons were in 5th gear 60-90 tonight they were 7.56 and 7.87. The same clinical procedures were fastidiously followed.....after all "this is for posterity" - Princess Bride
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: PHX area
OK I bite as well, fee time this morning, no work waiting for the kid
3500 to 6000 RPM time in 3rd gear
3500 RPM is not marked on the tach
Running 16 rims, 15% pulley and a CAI
• No wind
• 38°F
• 5829 ft above sea level
• <0.5° incline
• 3500 RPM = 47 mph
• 6000 RPM = 77 mph
• 3 passes
o 7.49 seconds
o 7.25 seconds
o 7.62 seconds
3500 to 6000 RPM time in 3rd gear
3500 RPM is not marked on the tach
Running 16 rims, 15% pulley and a CAI
• No wind
• 38°F
• 5829 ft above sea level
• <0.5° incline
• 3500 RPM = 47 mph
• 6000 RPM = 77 mph
• 3 passes
o 7.49 seconds
o 7.25 seconds
o 7.62 seconds
5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
Originally Posted by kwkshift
What about the SAE standard? That is why it exists.
This is a far more inaccurate way of measuring performance!
This point has already been made but the time delay between someone hitting the stop watch before or a little after they hit the throttle and then again when they let off of the throttle can throw the numbers off huge! Plus... what if you are on an ever so slight down hill...
Also, why only rev to 6000 rpm? is this for people with 19%+4% so they don't cause damage to their cars? seems a little biased since cars most minis continue to make power all the way until redline (especially if they have a cylinder head)
I have made... tons and tons of passes down the drag strip in my MINI...i haven't seen any adverse wear and tear... except for tires! I know the clutch takes a little bit of a beating but hey... i bought my car to drive it!!! REMEMBER isn't that we bought all of these cars for...
The only way to accurately gauge a cars performance is through a dyno... and just bear in mind that their will be a differnce between dyno to dyno... however it is the most controlled way to test an engines performance...
I understand that this new way will gauge peoples set ups (which was mentioned in the first post) but still the best way to test that is through the drag strip... yes i do realize that this will add a bigger variable to the car (that being the driver) but guess what... when it comes down to it... your car will only go as fast as YOU can drive it... Like they used to say when the flag drops the ******** stops... they have been doing it this way for 60 years
Thread Starter
|
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Thanks for your input. However, this is just a simple way of comparing mods against others without incuring time/expense at he track/dyno. If someone has difficulty hitting both the stopwatch and the gas at the same time, I'd recommend they get an automagic tranny. Like Spidy says...this is just drinkin/BSn with the boys. No one's claiming 100% accuracy and no one is requiring anyone to participate
Anyone else want to post their finding? Someone mentioned keeping the run on a flat grade makes perfect common sense. No drafting either
Anyone else want to post their finding? Someone mentioned keeping the run on a flat grade makes perfect common sense. No drafting either
Originally Posted by isellem
I agree 100%
This is a far more inaccurate way of measuring performance!
This point has already been made but the time delay between someone hitting the stop watch before or a little after they hit the throttle and then again when they let off of the throttle can throw the numbers off huge! Plus... what if you are on an ever so slight down hill...
Also, why only rev to 6000 rpm? is this for people with 19%+4% so they don't cause damage to their cars? seems a little biased since cars most minis continue to make power all the way until redline (especially if they have a cylinder head)
I have made... tons and tons of passes down the drag strip in my MINI...i haven't seen any adverse wear and tear... except for tires! I know the clutch takes a little bit of a beating but hey... i bought my car to drive it!!! REMEMBER isn't that we bought all of these cars for...
The only way to accurately gauge a cars performance is through a dyno... and just bear in mind that their will be a differnce between dyno to dyno... however it is the most controlled way to test an engines performance...
I understand that this new way will gauge peoples set ups (which was mentioned in the first post) but still the best way to test that is through the drag strip... yes i do realize that this will add a bigger variable to the car (that being the driver) but guess what... when it comes down to it... your car will only go as fast as YOU can drive it... Like they used to say when the flag drops the ******** stops... they have been doing it this way for 60 years
This is a far more inaccurate way of measuring performance!
This point has already been made but the time delay between someone hitting the stop watch before or a little after they hit the throttle and then again when they let off of the throttle can throw the numbers off huge! Plus... what if you are on an ever so slight down hill...
Also, why only rev to 6000 rpm? is this for people with 19%+4% so they don't cause damage to their cars? seems a little biased since cars most minis continue to make power all the way until redline (especially if they have a cylinder head)
I have made... tons and tons of passes down the drag strip in my MINI...i haven't seen any adverse wear and tear... except for tires! I know the clutch takes a little bit of a beating but hey... i bought my car to drive it!!! REMEMBER isn't that we bought all of these cars for...
The only way to accurately gauge a cars performance is through a dyno... and just bear in mind that their will be a differnce between dyno to dyno... however it is the most controlled way to test an engines performance...
I understand that this new way will gauge peoples set ups (which was mentioned in the first post) but still the best way to test that is through the drag strip... yes i do realize that this will add a bigger variable to the car (that being the driver) but guess what... when it comes down to it... your car will only go as fast as YOU can drive it... Like they used to say when the flag drops the ******** stops... they have been doing it this way for 60 years
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by isellem
I agree 100%
This is a far more inaccurate way of measuring performance!
This point has already been made but the time delay between someone hitting the stop watch before or a little after they hit the throttle and then again when they let off of the throttle can throw the numbers off huge! Plus... what if you are on an ever so slight down hill...
Also, why only rev to 6000 rpm? is this for people with 19%+4% so they don't cause damage to their cars? seems a little biased since cars most minis continue to make power all the way until redline (especially if they have a cylinder head)
I have made... tons and tons of passes down the drag strip in my MINI...i haven't seen any adverse wear and tear... except for tires! I know the clutch takes a little bit of a beating but hey... i bought my car to drive it!!! REMEMBER isn't that we bought all of these cars for...
The only way to accurately gauge a cars performance is through a dyno... and just bear in mind that their will be a differnce between dyno to dyno... however it is the most controlled way to test an engines performance...
I understand that this new way will gauge peoples set ups (which was mentioned in the first post) but still the best way to test that is through the drag strip... yes i do realize that this will add a bigger variable to the car (that being the driver) but guess what... when it comes down to it... your car will only go as fast as YOU can drive it... Like they used to say when the flag drops the ******** stops... they have been doing it this way for 60 years
This is a far more inaccurate way of measuring performance!
This point has already been made but the time delay between someone hitting the stop watch before or a little after they hit the throttle and then again when they let off of the throttle can throw the numbers off huge! Plus... what if you are on an ever so slight down hill...
Also, why only rev to 6000 rpm? is this for people with 19%+4% so they don't cause damage to their cars? seems a little biased since cars most minis continue to make power all the way until redline (especially if they have a cylinder head)
I have made... tons and tons of passes down the drag strip in my MINI...i haven't seen any adverse wear and tear... except for tires! I know the clutch takes a little bit of a beating but hey... i bought my car to drive it!!! REMEMBER isn't that we bought all of these cars for...
The only way to accurately gauge a cars performance is through a dyno... and just bear in mind that their will be a differnce between dyno to dyno... however it is the most controlled way to test an engines performance...
I understand that this new way will gauge peoples set ups (which was mentioned in the first post) but still the best way to test that is through the drag strip... yes i do realize that this will add a bigger variable to the car (that being the driver) but guess what... when it comes down to it... your car will only go as fast as YOU can drive it... Like they used to say when the flag drops the ******** stops... they have been doing it this way for 60 years
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: PHX area
Clicking a stop watch as you step on the gas seems easy. Try and find 3500 RPM, for that matter stopping the watch at 6000 is not that easy either.
Any way I am buying into the fun factor of this experiment, not the accuracy part.
Any way I am buying into the fun factor of this experiment, not the accuracy part.
Thread Starter
|
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by rajron
Clicking a stop watch as you step on the gas seems easy. Try and find 3500 RPM, for that matter stopping the watch at 6000 is not that easy either.
Any way I am buying into the fun factor of this experiment, not the accuracy part.
Any way I am buying into the fun factor of this experiment, not the accuracy part.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: PHX area
I will try again with cruise control, at an estimated 3500, when I can get out.
As for roads, I live where there are many many miles of empty roads so that is not an issue. Being over a mile high does effect power though.
As for roads, I live where there are many many miles of empty roads so that is not an issue. Being over a mile high does effect power though.
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
Screw the dyno
Sid,
Finally got a chance to make the runs today (been out of town for 3 wks). Car is stock S with the complete JCW package(engine, suspension, brakes) with R89 web spokes and performance run flats. I weight 195 lbs. Here' s the stats:
Temp: 54 degrees F
Wind: none
Terrain: flat paved road
Altitude: 5300'
Humidity: 23%
Dew point: 18 degrees F
Altimeter setting: 29.66
Density altitude: 6558
Relative HP: 82.7%
1st run: 6.28
2nd run: 6.32
3rd run: 6.3
All runs started with car in cruise control at 3500rpm in 3rd gear and ended at 6000rpm.
Finally got a chance to make the runs today (been out of town for 3 wks). Car is stock S with the complete JCW package(engine, suspension, brakes) with R89 web spokes and performance run flats. I weight 195 lbs. Here' s the stats:
Temp: 54 degrees F
Wind: none
Terrain: flat paved road
Altitude: 5300'
Humidity: 23%
Dew point: 18 degrees F
Altimeter setting: 29.66
Density altitude: 6558
Relative HP: 82.7%
1st run: 6.28
2nd run: 6.32
3rd run: 6.3
All runs started with car in cruise control at 3500rpm in 3rd gear and ended at 6000rpm.
Cupid, what's under your bonnet?
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Scottsdale, AZ
You are sort of right. This is a SIMPLE, but horrible (the part you left out) way of compairing mods. My car which had everything on it, would run pretty darn close to a BPU MINI in a 3000-6000 rpm race. But from 5500 or so on I would start putting train lenghts on the BPU MINI. So a car that is set up to brather much better is not going to see anything from this sort of measurement becasue these cars are still making peak power at readline.
BPU - Basic Performance Upgrades - Pulley, Intake, Exhaust.
Yes it was stolen from another car community.
As for this being an inexpensive way for others to measure there cars performance, if you cant afford $40-$60 for a dyno or $15-$40 for a visit to the local dragstrip after modding your car. I am fairly sure that the performance of your car should be the least of your worries.
BPU - Basic Performance Upgrades - Pulley, Intake, Exhaust.
Yes it was stolen from another car community.
As for this being an inexpensive way for others to measure there cars performance, if you cant afford $40-$60 for a dyno or $15-$40 for a visit to the local dragstrip after modding your car. I am fairly sure that the performance of your car should be the least of your worries.
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Thanks for your input. However, this is just a simple way of comparing mods against others without incuring time/expense at he track/dyno. If someone has difficulty hitting both the stopwatch and the gas at the same time, I'd recommend they get an automagic tranny. Like Spidy says...this is just drinkin/BSn with the boys. No one's claiming 100% accuracy and no one is requiring anyone to participate
Anyone else want to post their finding? Someone mentioned keeping the run on a flat grade makes perfect common sense. No drafting either
Anyone else want to post their finding? Someone mentioned keeping the run on a flat grade makes perfect common sense. No drafting either
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by motorsports3
You are sort of right. This is a SIMPLE, but horrible (the part you left out) way of compairing mods. My car which had everything on it, would run pretty darn close to a BPU MINI in a 3000-6000 rpm race. But from 5500 or so on I would start putting train lenghts on the BPU MINI. So a car that is set up to brather much better is not going to see anything from this sort of measurement becasue these cars are still making peak power at readline.
BPU - Basic Performance Upgrades - Pulley, Intake, Exhaust.
Yes it was stolen from another car community.
As for this being an inexpensive way for others to measure there cars performance, if you cant afford $40-$60 for a dyno or $15-$40 for a visit to the local dragstrip after modding your car. I am fairly sure that the performance of your car should be the least of your worries.
BPU - Basic Performance Upgrades - Pulley, Intake, Exhaust.
Yes it was stolen from another car community.
As for this being an inexpensive way for others to measure there cars performance, if you cant afford $40-$60 for a dyno or $15-$40 for a visit to the local dragstrip after modding your car. I am fairly sure that the performance of your car should be the least of your worries.
..............
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by SpiderX
I have been totally wrong about the way people would respond to this "for fun" exercise........ C'mon Sid, let's go play over there these guys don't like our game and who needs em' ..............
..............