Drivetrain Intercooler fan install?
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Originally Posted by JeffS
I'm amazed
-snip-
- that Andy is spending so much time argueing with him
-snip-
- that Andy is spending so much time argueing with him
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
I've been given a gift by the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that gift is the power of logical thought and expressing those thoughts to others. Arrrggghh! :smile:
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Originally Posted by ingsoc
Andy,
I am truly concerned by your conduct towards me. I've read over all of my posts in the IC thread and cannot find one post where I even came close to insulting you. Rather, I asked you nicely many times if I could arrange to get the only product you seem to respect, your own, and to produce data. I see that you seem keen on insulting me- "BTW, BiM-COM cannot help your misunderstanding of this fairly simple situation."
For the public face of an employer, you seem to be lacking in the grace department. You also don't seem to be very astute, as you show an obvious a) resentment of any possibilities other than your own and b) lack of understanding of the most straightforward of business dealings- the inquiry. I was asking you a simple question- how/if I could arrange to get BIM-COM for my own use. I was offering to test on my own car, even after you so arrogantly criticized my proposed idea. I had more than enough funds to afford whatever you would be charging. With your laughably absent business sense, though, you couldn't play nice.
For what it is worth, I had intended to buy BIM-COM. I now no longer do. That is squarely your fault. I do business with many in the scene, and you'll most definately be the last to see my money. I have never had a bad dealing or angered a dealer. I am friends with many, and all know me to be honest and an enthusiast. That is more than they have to say about you.
I expect that if you ever hope to resurrect any of my previously-held respect for you and to sell me this software which it appears you will never make a cent on at this rate, that you will apologize. I did not criticize you or do anything to provoke your destructive criticism. You lost your cool, and that is quite the opposite of what you should have done if you possessed proper business acumen. Your loss. [img]images/smilies/thumb-up.gif[/img]
Maahir
I am truly concerned by your conduct towards me. I've read over all of my posts in the IC thread and cannot find one post where I even came close to insulting you. Rather, I asked you nicely many times if I could arrange to get the only product you seem to respect, your own, and to produce data. I see that you seem keen on insulting me- "BTW, BiM-COM cannot help your misunderstanding of this fairly simple situation."
For the public face of an employer, you seem to be lacking in the grace department. You also don't seem to be very astute, as you show an obvious a) resentment of any possibilities other than your own and b) lack of understanding of the most straightforward of business dealings- the inquiry. I was asking you a simple question- how/if I could arrange to get BIM-COM for my own use. I was offering to test on my own car, even after you so arrogantly criticized my proposed idea. I had more than enough funds to afford whatever you would be charging. With your laughably absent business sense, though, you couldn't play nice.
For what it is worth, I had intended to buy BIM-COM. I now no longer do. That is squarely your fault. I do business with many in the scene, and you'll most definately be the last to see my money. I have never had a bad dealing or angered a dealer. I am friends with many, and all know me to be honest and an enthusiast. That is more than they have to say about you.
I expect that if you ever hope to resurrect any of my previously-held respect for you and to sell me this software which it appears you will never make a cent on at this rate, that you will apologize. I did not criticize you or do anything to provoke your destructive criticism. You lost your cool, and that is quite the opposite of what you should have done if you possessed proper business acumen. Your loss. [img]images/smilies/thumb-up.gif[/img]
Maahir
Just took some time to read through this thread .... 
I don't know what it is these last few weeks, but this forum seems to be going through some type of rapid evolution. Becoming a bit annoying to say the least ..
Ingsoc. Here is a test we did during a dyno day. Note the photo below. Not the best shot to prove the point here, but maybe it will help clear you head a bit. The two HUGE fans in front of the car (green/blue color) are what is generally used in most dynos to cool the car. They had been used on this dyno for many dyno days with the Mini S. they were used with hood up, hood down, hood halfway. they were always directed to blow OVER the IC when hood was up and into the IC scoop when hood was down. Neither way ever kept the IC from heat soak and by the second dyno run the cars were already loosing HP.
I then built the fan that you see over the IC. This started life as an attic fan and is more of a low velocity-high volume type of fan. It was directed to blow the air straight down 'INTO' the IC, not over or around it. One car, my own, ran over twenty full pulls that day with this fan and never lost HP. All other Minis that used the fan that weekend showed higher numbers then they had previously shown in dynos past, on this same dyno. Gains of up to 10hp were the average with all of the cars that used it from times past.
Does this help?
I don't know what it is these last few weeks, but this forum seems to be going through some type of rapid evolution. Becoming a bit annoying to say the least ..
Ingsoc. Here is a test we did during a dyno day. Note the photo below. Not the best shot to prove the point here, but maybe it will help clear you head a bit. The two HUGE fans in front of the car (green/blue color) are what is generally used in most dynos to cool the car. They had been used on this dyno for many dyno days with the Mini S. they were used with hood up, hood down, hood halfway. they were always directed to blow OVER the IC when hood was up and into the IC scoop when hood was down. Neither way ever kept the IC from heat soak and by the second dyno run the cars were already loosing HP.
I then built the fan that you see over the IC. This started life as an attic fan and is more of a low velocity-high volume type of fan. It was directed to blow the air straight down 'INTO' the IC, not over or around it. One car, my own, ran over twenty full pulls that day with this fan and never lost HP. All other Minis that used the fan that weekend showed higher numbers then they had previously shown in dynos past, on this same dyno. Gains of up to 10hp were the average with all of the cars that used it from times past.
Does this help?
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by onasled
Just took some time to read through this thread ....
I don't know what it is these last few weeks, but this forum seems to be going through some type of rapid evolution. Becoming a bit annoying to say the least ..
Ingsoc. Here is a test we did during a dyno day. Note the photo below. Not the best shot to prove the point here, but maybe it will help clear you head a bit. The two HUGE fans in front of the car (green/blue color) are what is generally used in most dynos to cool the car. They had been used on this dyno for many dyno days with the Mini S. they were used with hood up, hood down, hood halfway. they were always directed to blow OVER the IC when hood was up and into the IC scoop when hood was down. Neither way ever kept the IC from heat soak and by the second dyno run the cars were already loosing HP.
I then built the fan that you see over the IC. This started life as an attic fan and is more of a low velocity-high volume type of fan. It was directed to blow the air straight down 'INTO' the IC, not over or around it. One car, my own, ran over twenty full pulls that day with this fan and never lost HP. All other Minis that used the fan that weekend showed higher numbers then they had previously shown in dynos past, on this same dyno. Gains of up to 10hp were the average with all of the cars that used it from times past.
Does this help?
I don't know what it is these last few weeks, but this forum seems to be going through some type of rapid evolution. Becoming a bit annoying to say the least ..
Ingsoc. Here is a test we did during a dyno day. Note the photo below. Not the best shot to prove the point here, but maybe it will help clear you head a bit. The two HUGE fans in front of the car (green/blue color) are what is generally used in most dynos to cool the car. They had been used on this dyno for many dyno days with the Mini S. they were used with hood up, hood down, hood halfway. they were always directed to blow OVER the IC when hood was up and into the IC scoop when hood was down. Neither way ever kept the IC from heat soak and by the second dyno run the cars were already loosing HP.
I then built the fan that you see over the IC. This started life as an attic fan and is more of a low velocity-high volume type of fan. It was directed to blow the air straight down 'INTO' the IC, not over or around it. One car, my own, ran over twenty full pulls that day with this fan and never lost HP. All other Minis that used the fan that weekend showed higher numbers then they had previously shown in dynos past, on this same dyno. Gains of up to 10hp were the average with all of the cars that used it from times past.
Does this help?
My question was posed, in fact, not long after seeing the advantage that your fan setup gave when it forced the air through the IC. I wondered if that was actually happening in speed. That is all. Thanks for reminding me of the fan setup though
.Andy, give me some credit man. I know very well what BIM-COM does/doesn't do. IF there's a sensor in the car for _something_, you now get access to the data. I know that no air flow sensor exists in the IC. BUT, it is perfectly possible and acceptable to measure the difference in charge temps using the software to log them on comparable trials.
cant we all just get along.........this thread was started to see if my idea is good or not, not for people to say " im smarter than you are"
After all this b.s.......i still havent got a real answer on if this is even an idea to go on n try being its not much to do.
After all this b.s.......i still havent got a real answer on if this is even an idea to go on n try being its not much to do.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
I'm running what appears to be that exact fan at this moment! I use it early evening on most Summer nights as an exhaust fan for my entire house. I bet it works wonders on the dyno!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by 1FSTMINI
cant we all just get along.........this thread was started to see if my idea is good or not, not for people to say " im smarter than you are"
After all this b.s.......i still havent got a real answer on if this is even an idea to go on n try being its not much to do.
After all this b.s.......i still havent got a real answer on if this is even an idea to go on n try being its not much to do.
People saying a fan will block flow may be right but they certainly don't know until they try. I support your idea. Best of luck to you in finding your answer. I promise that I will never categorically criticize the idea without participating in a full, thoughtful discussion about why I do.
its all good...........i have alot of ideas in my head for these cars........my next project is to put a shock sensor in the passenger seat so when my gurl starts mouthing off on a road trip i can shock her *** with the horn button. j/k 
O'Doyle's rule!
O'Doyle's rule!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by 1FSTMINI
its all good...........i have alot of ideas in my head for these cars........my next project is to put a shock sensor in the passenger seat so when my gurl starts mouthing off on a road trip i can shock her *** with the horn button. j/k
O'Doyle's rule!
O'Doyle's rule!
yep! that sound's like an excellent idea 4 a butt mod/
--I like ur' fan idea D'best considerin' that "ram air" really only works at high high high speeds like triple digits high, and even so not much in gains and also hotter air is really prevellent in that area so we all know hot air sux.
but then again in a forced induction motor air is always heated up regardless of ur' mods used to prevent it.
IMHO....&this beign just an opinion---not sure at all---
I feel that an oversized IC in that engine bay- (due to design,& heat soak) really isn't doing much (specially for the money) some of those IC when lookin' at them closely make no sence on how they go about koolin' (its a joke) theres a few to many faults in design, like that Gintani.com who does that?
- directly above some serious heat, and bonnet beign right on top of it all, a top mount IC will never b#1 on my list, mayb #10? after every other mod has been done
how about tryin' to mount it in the front! that would impress me.
or a nicer radiator or breather of some sort
-or how about ventin' a c/f hood w/real workin' fender gills....to get that hot air out of ur' engine bay. so now that i've gone on & on (have alot more to type but) if im wrong please correct me. peace
but then again in a forced induction motor air is always heated up regardless of ur' mods used to prevent it.
IMHO....&this beign just an opinion---not sure at all---
I feel that an oversized IC in that engine bay- (due to design,& heat soak) really isn't doing much (specially for the money) some of those IC when lookin' at them closely make no sence on how they go about koolin' (its a joke) theres a few to many faults in design, like that Gintani.com
who does that?- directly above some serious heat, and bonnet beign right on top of it all, a top mount IC will never b#1 on my list, mayb #10? after every other mod has been done
how about tryin' to mount it in the front! that would impress me.
or a nicer radiator or breather of some sort
-or how about ventin' a c/f hood w/real workin' fender gills....to get that hot air out of ur' engine bay. so now that i've gone on & on (have alot more to type but) if im wrong please correct me. peace
Originally Posted by 1FSTMINI
its all good...........i have alot of ideas in my head for these cars........my next project is to put a shock sensor in the passenger seat so when my gurl starts mouthing off on a road trip i can shock her *** with the horn button. j/k
O'Doyle's rule!
O'Doyle's rule!
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Originally Posted by 1FSTMINI
its all good...........i have alot of ideas in my head for these cars........my next project is to put a shock sensor in the passenger seat so when my gurl starts mouthing off on a road trip i can shock her *** with the horn button. j/k
O'Doyle's rule!
O'Doyle's rule!
Sit down, bucklle up, shut up and HOLD ON!!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
Engines aren't my thing...not that aerodynamics is either.
I personaly feel it is safe to make some assumptions about the physical nature of 'things'. Beyond this point it becomes useless to banter/bash an idea. The characterisitcs of the air flow over the Min's nose will not be like any other car. And so, experimentation is valid as is some WAGing.
I salute your process and your energy.
...here's a suggestion; get a high velocity fan(s) - assimilate actual airflow at say 80mph - place camera under the hood, close the hood, start the fan(s), burn something and watch the flow of smoke both over the hood and under it.
I picked 80mph because at this sustained speed my oil temp gauge rises farily dramitically at abient temps above 80 degrees F. Certainly not scientific, but if I were a betting man, I would say there is some threshold somewhere around that speed that is meaningful...perhaps air flow is ubstructed above that speed...maybe more flows under the car. Dunno, but the smoke does.
I personaly feel it is safe to make some assumptions about the physical nature of 'things'. Beyond this point it becomes useless to banter/bash an idea. The characterisitcs of the air flow over the Min's nose will not be like any other car. And so, experimentation is valid as is some WAGing.
I salute your process and your energy.
...here's a suggestion; get a high velocity fan(s) - assimilate actual airflow at say 80mph - place camera under the hood, close the hood, start the fan(s), burn something and watch the flow of smoke both over the hood and under it.
I picked 80mph because at this sustained speed my oil temp gauge rises farily dramitically at abient temps above 80 degrees F. Certainly not scientific, but if I were a betting man, I would say there is some threshold somewhere around that speed that is meaningful...perhaps air flow is ubstructed above that speed...maybe more flows under the car. Dunno, but the smoke does.
It is in the spirit of experimenting that I made Split Air Intake. If you believe in it, build it. I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.
Bomboasy
I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.Bomboasy
has anybody really tested 2see how much air actually passes through that intake, cuz it seems like w/that BULLnose design of our cars that at a certain speed after air hits the nose it would pass right over it and not so much of it through the intake, i know those pollent vents dont see any added air through them w/those goofy scoops that BFP & Orciari sells-- just looks real nice on .
hmmm! looks like a great mod if ur' gathering alot of air in there--if ur' relying on "ram air" and the benefits of it "Ram air" works at higher speeds the best so, like at 90-100mph the faster the better-and even so.... just very little. check out GruppeM they have a killer set up and in C/F (my favorite material). nice work man, no haters here on my end, looks good if sufficient air gets into that little opening.
Originally Posted by bomboasy
It is in the spirit of experimenting that I made Split Air Intake. If you believe in it, build it. I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.
Bomboasy
I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.Bomboasy
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
So as not to confuse...I certainly was not commenting about anyone in particular, just a general comment. Experimentation is great!
Originally Posted by bomboasy
It is in the spirit of experimenting that I made Split Air Intake. If you believe in it, build it. I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.
Bomboasy
I really was not trying to bash any ideas. I just wanted to let you know that I have done some experimenting myself, drawing from experience. It just happened that a lot of your assumptions were not in line with what I have seen in there. But I encourage thinking out of the box. Here is my out of the box project.Bomboasy
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by onasled
OK, ...... is it just me, or are Joker's post quite difficult to read? 
. Every last one of them, Onasled. I once asked him to write in English... nicely, too...
Do you have alink for GruppeM? I am interested in seeing what they are doing. The pictures that I posted of SAI are old. You want more Ram Air, no problem. Now visualize that same setup with the M7 scoop. I have not taken a picture of that set up yet, but it is in my MINI. But wait, there is more..... coming...
Bomboasy
Bomboasy
Originally Posted by joker
hmmm! looks like a great mod if ur gathering alot of air in there--if ur' relying on "ram air" and the benefits of it "Ram air" works at higher speeds best so, like at 90-100mph the faster the better-and even so just very little. check out GruppeM they have a killer set up and in C/F (my favorite material). nice work man, no haters here on my end looks good if sufficient air gets to that little opening.
yea but its not workin' its actually GruppeMusa.com
go 2 "birds.uk.com"
go 2 "birds.uk.com"
Originally Posted by bomboasy
Do you have alink for GruppeM? I am interested in seeing what they are doing. The pictures that I posted of SAI are old. You want more Ram Air, no problem. Now visualize that same setup with the M7 scoop. I have not taken a picture of that set up yet, but it is in my MINI. But wait, there is more..... coming...
Bomboasy
Bomboasy