I saw about a 10F drop in IATs with the larger M7 scoop. In comparing IC's, I was shocked that I had lower IATs with the stock one! But, I consistenly had better boost with the larger IC, but it was very minimal (something like half a pound, at most)

I found this very odd because I was expecting lower IATs with the larger IC, and since we always hear about minimizing pressure loss, to get a gain, well, that was nice, but contradictory to what I had been reading. But this was real world-testing, not on a dyno...

From what I uderstand, the combo of both is the bottom line - molecular density (the pressure and coolness of the air). The scoop made the notable difference...

 

So, the M7 scoop and a sprayer combination would be the ticket, right?

 

I'd love to see proof of all these postulates.

Not saying you're right or wrong I'd just like to see data or even some flow pictures.

 

The proof is quite evident to me. There is no way that when I'm driving 60 mph the air is travelling that fast through my scoop and around my engine, out. There is a certain positive pressure in the scoop relative to above. There is far less resistance to flow over the car than into the scoop. So, something therefore must be done to change the relative difference in resistance above versus below the plenum.

 

Well being that BFG9000 is the only who has this mod so far in here maybe we should be asking him all these Q......Im just going to go out n do this cuz i feel it will work and i will be pushing more CFMs than the car pulls in at cruising speeds.

 

Yes but laminar flow also determines that air wants to follow a curved body and tends to accelerate over that curvature.
Bernoulli principle and all that.
As you say there will be some resistance to flow but throwing more air at the same amount of interference also creates a greater positive pressure.
Just like how a roots blower works.
How do we know there isn't an impact wall a the top edge of the scoop that effectively limits intake?

I'd like to see a cross section of the scoop too.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like to see flow data.

 

i think i've posted this same thing before:

increasing the size of the scoop will not necessarily cause more air to flow through the ic in all conditions: it depends on the air speed.

at any given air speed, the air can only develop a maximun amount of pressure as it's brought to a stop, say in a short closed tube. making the tube diameter twice as big DOES NOT increase the PRESSURE on the bottom of the tube.

at any given speed and its corresponding maximum pressure, only so much air can be driven through the "resistance" of the ic. TAKING MORE AIR THAN THIS INTO THE SCOOP DOES NOTHING FOR COOLING. that excess air will just "pile up" and spill BACK OUT of the inlet. (in aircraft inlet terms this is called "spill drag.") if there is room around the ic for this air to flow into the engine compartment, it will. BUT THE EXTRA AIR WON'T GO THROUGH THE IC.

with a fixed inlet, you have to pick an air speed to match up with size of the inlet. above that air speed, you are just spilling the excess air back out. below that speed, you don't get as much cooling air through the ic as you could.

 

That g@y looking scoop is out of the Q and is not even a topic on what im asking. If your right about having "spill drag" then i cant see that being a bad thing when it will cool off the engine and the heat rising also, right? I have a CF scoop and thats good enough for me and for the cost of the fan mod, its still alot cheaper than buying a scoop for $150 or more plus paint. I dont know why this wouldnt be a good thing if your having more air flow on the IC at any speed. I dont think it matters that the air temp drops once your goin, its all about before you launch the car to get up to that speed where it then starts cooling off.

 

sounds like the old arguments about the AGS, and flow limitations, heh, heh.

ultimately, the bottleneck is the sum of restrictive elements in the entire path, including intercooler vanes, abrupt turns, port opening, exit air path around the engine or bernoulli sucking due to hood/port shape. If one of those is a large restriction, it will limit the flow regardless of how big you make the port opening.

 

So all this begs the question...what IS the air flow capabilities of the stock IC verses the capabilities of the stock scoop?

The point is well made that trying to cram 10 pounds in a 5 pound sack doesn't work very well but I've not seen any info to confirm the size of the sack (air flow capabilities of the stock IC).

 

Strange things happen to fluids when deflected....that is why God made wind tunnels

 

No wind tunnel needed. Just a simple pair of temp probes. $50 to know for sure if it makes the situation better or worse:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=23248&page=2

 

Wind tunnel? this isnt nascar......wind tunnels are to measure aerodynamic air flow around the car, not air flow into it.

 

Dr. Obnxs, who is one of many BiM-COM beta testers, worked with me on the aforementioned experimentation. As some know, BiM-COM captures data at a rate of about 5x a second. This kicks butt over what I currently have at once every 5 seconds (CarChip). I have Excel sheets, with graphs (IAT, Boost, etc) of the following (on separate days):

Stock IC/Stock Scoop @ 68 Deg Ambient
Stock IC/Stock Scoop @ 98 Deg Ambient
GRS IC/Stock Sccop @ 68 Deg Ambient
GRS IC/Stock Scoop @ 98 Deg Ambient
Stock IC/M7 Scoop @ 68 Deg Ambient
GRS IC/M7 Scoop @ 68 Deg Ambient

If RossTech approves, I will gladly share this data here. I find it to be very informative. The take-homes that I got were that the stock IC is very adequate. And that a larger IC (at least the GRS one I tested) showed marginal improvement, at best. The larger M7 scoop made a noteable difference...

 

Go for it.

 

There's 36 wind tunnels where I work. Wherever the wind blows measurements can be made.


They measure micro eddies at and through inlets all the time.
The rather famous NACA duct would be a good example of testing airflow through an inlet.

 

Andy, thank you!

May I send you the files? Not sure how to upload Excel here anyways. Plus, I'm on Vicodin and Motrin, and very much out of it now...

 

Wow....no i feel like i know nothing and will shut up.

 

You know more than I do about going fast I just happen to work in a nerd pond

 

 

eRAM!!!!!

Over 1100 CFM in a 3.5" diameter package. But you;d have to suck, not blow, as it's an axial fan. Read the Electric Supercharger thread for a reference to someone who tried the IC cooling with it.....

And it's a good laugh as well.....

And Tony, Vicodin AND Motrin? And you didn't offer to share?

Matt

 

Matt, I'm probably one of the few, but I'm with ya on the eRAM! I think the "water" project should come first though...

I had to go to Kasier emergency late Sat night. After X-rays, and morphine, I was told that I have a Kidney stone I'm trying to pass that bugger now, thus the heavy meds!

Guys, if you didn't notice, I started a new thread that picks-up where I last left-off here. At the moment though, I can't quite get data to you all, but that's just a matter of time...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=49441

 

Matt

 

I hope it's a small one.

Take care Tony

 

The thing is, the scoop does precisely this: it increases [pressure at the top of the scoop infinitely, thereby FORCING air either of two ways: up or down. It does this to a greater extent than the stock one. Ie, it adds pressure behind the air. Extra pressure will ostensibly force more air through the resistance if the resistance stays the same. P=current * resistance. Any increase in pressure increase flow.