well this week i got to head down to mini-madness to help george on putting one of his new header on norm's MCS....sick car by the way....put the new V2. header on it...no cat....got it on and at the same time put a new borla street exhaust on...due to the fact that norm burnt up the borla sport and mintex header...which i must say is a crappy header.....if you want to see a good header and want it to last get a madness header and dont wine about it..... anyway..got the new exhaust on and new header....sound very sick...gave to car AMAZING throttle response....couldnt believe it.....also put on the new water intercooler rad. and new oil cooper which looked pretty sweet...cant believe that the intercooler ran at 79 degrees....dam.

and also when i was down there i get to put some new stuff on my MCS...got a poly engine bushing kit..which makes a world of difference....and got a header put on my car...one of the old V1 headers from mini-madness...the only difference between the two is that you can put a race pipe in there instead....made a amazing difference in my car...opened that exhaust up tons...more throttle response as well....lucky it was dry down there for the most part so i could keep my tires on the ground....

personally i would recommend one of the new V.2 headers from george at MINI-Madness....for the money and quality...believe me it makes a difference over other headers....


LATER

BATES

 

http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=166


BATES

 

RIGHT! for the money it's a great deal i'm sure in Andy's words, "show me some numbers"

 

The above project was my car. I spoke with George about some dyno runs and he told me he's setting them up. For myself I'll be going in about a month.

One thing I can say regarding numbers is that I have burned up 2 Miltek headers and 3 Borla Sport exhausts. Sure they are on warranty, but I spent half my time replacing the crapola and a lot of time driving at very low efficiency.

In fact, the first time the Miltek burned out it plugged while I was on the track at Thunderhill. It looked very much like picture number 2 below. Picture number 3 shows a piece of the cat that had broken lose and was found in the muffler. Nice workmanship. Two strikes and they are out.

I guess one can question the dollars, but quality headers are pretty commonplace on any race car or serious trackday participant. I now have what I feel is one on my car. Jet-coated, long primaries and straight pipe.

My number 4 Borla is now a Street version so I don't have to worry about another resonator turning into little molten *****. I know I lose a bit on HP, but I have to stay somewhere near legal on sound. The quieter Street balances the louder straight pipe. I love the sound. It's loud and throaty. I still go into cruise mode near the gendarmes.

My butt dyno tells me the throttle response is much quicker throughout, especially quick since I also have a lightweight flywheel. The upper-end power seems stronger. As I cruised up the interstate at 80 I reached to the shifter 4 or 5 times thinking I was in 5th and still pulling only to find out I was in 6th. I had the same experience this time last year after doing the head, cam and manifold. It has moved up a notch again. Much of that may have to do with the fact that the new intercooler is running very low temps.

As for the header, cost and HP I hope the numbers will be here soon. In the meantime, many people make decisions based on what they think is best for their setup. I like to go fast and have the car handle well. I think I'm there. Now, I have absolutely no idea why someone would put an aero kit on their car or lower it without properly setting up the suspension. Or run 18" wheels. I personally look at that money as swirling down the bowl. So, I guess we all have our priorities.

 

Chris how are you liking the Poly bushing kit for your engine so far? Not too much shaking or noise for everyday driving?

 

My madness header and milltek catback arrive by weeks end, so I get my install and pre/post dyno runs next week. Will post results so the numbers are posted!

 

Ouch! How is your A/F? Do you think it was mixture, heat, or cat construction that led to their demise?

 

Thought of that also Andy. Yet my A/F has been good. 11.7 @ WOT.

I'm just speculating as to cause, but I think it was heat. I wish I had had an exhaust temp guage, but all that costs money. I guess when you have a lifetime warranty on both and you're not a tester for either Miltek or Borla you get lazy as to causation.

Between you and I and the proverbial fencepost, there was some feedback from Miltek that the materials were not meant for use on the track. I found this a bit mind-boggling. Quality high-flow headers are pretty expensive propositions and are usually one of the last mods. It's easy to believe that a lot of header purchasers would be doing some track time. Yet the cat materials fuse. I would think this is a cumulative effect, whichwould mean even one trackday would cause damage. However, I am just speculating.

I guess this is where straight pipes become more important.

 

Yeah, for track use, it just makes sense to use a "test pipe", even if it doesn't give significantly more power.

 

What's cool is that the switch to the Borla Street(quieter) with the straight pipe ended up giving my car a great new sound. Hard to describe, I should get a sound file. A nice reasonable throaty sound at low revs and a screaming scary sound at WOT.

I'm glad it is in a reasonalbe range, since some tracks have decibel limits. I hope to go to Lime Rock in June and I know they are tough. So is Laguna. This way I think I have a chance. I still have my custom-made 90 degree elbows I used at Laguna, so I can aim the sound away from the meter.

Nice problem to have at WOT.

 

"In fact, the first time the Miltek burned out it plugged while I was on the track at Thunderhill. It looked very much like picture number 2 below. Picture number 3 shows a piece of the cat that had broken lose and was found in the muffler. Nice workmanship. Two strikes and they are out."


I'm looking at a Miltek header and cat back for the street and perhaps three track sessions this year. I'm a bit lost identifying the cause in your posts. I would be a tad unhappy spending $1,500 large on this combo only to have it burn up...potentially at WOT while on a track with some hotdog following too close.

 

From my experience, I would ask more questions of the Miltek people and their reps. It's a well-respected company(otherwise I wouldn't have bought in the first place), so it's not as if their products are junk. However, there may be a question as to application, i.e. trackdays, for specific products.

One thing I wonder is did my cats go all at once, or did they experience gradual meltdown, trackday by trackday. If the latter, then you are eventually going to be faced with replacement.

With 20/20 hindsight, I can now understand why test pipes are used on the track. If swapping that section isn't viewed as too time-consuming then having both the pipe and the cat would be the best of all worlds. Though of course a bit more expensive. Surprise, surprise.

 

Thanks NearlyNN - a test pipe for track days. Another question too regarding some of the coatings - ceramic and I forget the name of the other more gritty ceramic - ; wonder if these actual help with this problem in particular or just help with under hood temps??? I've always thought of these coatings as for track only.

 

Bottomline-
If you track your MINI regularly-

Expect things to break and wear out.

It's just a function of hard use, heat, and limits of design and materials.

For street use, autocross and occassional driving schools most of our bolt on upgrades and more than up to the task.

Thanks for posting about your experience with your headers!

 

It's interesting that you have had problems with the Milltek. I would seriously take a look at your ECU tuning wiht a wide band O2 sensor.


I have had two different Milltek headers on the car (I sold the first, as I ran out and the customer had to have one right then) with literally thousands of track miles on the last one. No problems.

I also have had the units on many customer cars that track the car regularly, again no problems. I've probably sold 100 of these units over time, so it isn't a small sampling.

I have a new header I'm testing, but I have been very happy with the Milltek. The new header I believe is from the same supplier as Madness - Larini. It is a nice piece, but even pricier than the Milltek. Stay tuned for comparisons back to back of the stock, Milltek and Larini units.

Randy

 

I also believe that there is a rather large group of people over in europe who use Millteks on their track cars. They swear by them

 

Apologize for this being a long post, but I think it's needed to flesh out what I have said above and reassure many Milltek and Borla Sport owners that my experience is not typical. However, it is instructive. I look back at my first post and regret having used the words "poor workmanship". That's absolutely not true, I was just PO'd.

Well, I think I need to expand on my story regarding my header and exhaust problems. Try to add to the body knowledge in this area within the Mini community. I do put my Mini through an awful lot. As much, or more than any other MCS that still has plates and drives to the tracks. In a season and 2/3's I have 36,000 miles on the car, with 6,000 of those tracks miles. The car is extremely well-maintained both through time spent in the garage at Mini-madness and also time spent with Group 2 Motorsports, www.group2inc.com one of my sponsors.

However, as Minihune said, you track your car a lot then expect things to wear out and/or break down. I'm in complete agreement. George at Mini-madness likes our arrangement because I really true-world test products. Which is important in the new Mini world which is pretty recent. When I did what I did last year with my car http://www.mini-madness.com/html/1LOA.html , the mention of no Madness product failures is significant.

Of course, when something does break down it is only natural to inspect it and try to understand the problem and look for better solutions if needed.

I've thought long and hard about my header/exhaust problems and looked at my log. I've come up with one pretty decent conclusion and one "don't know".

First off, to your question Randy regarding my ECU and readings, etc. I'm running a pretty standard Stage 3 type Evotech program developed by Oliver in Germany. In fact, I have had for quite some time a more advanced program, but have chosen not to use it since I am pretty satisfied with present performance. As to the O2 sensor, I have been dynoed at a very well-respected company Horsepower Freaks http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/ with wide band sensors. They told me my A/F is in an ideal range.

So, back to my thoughts and conclusions. First, I really have no idea why the resonator on the Borla Sport/Race keeps melting and creating little BB-like ***** that rattle around, other than the way my car is used. I have no specific reference points to try to determine when they failed. No engine service light comes on and the rattling sound is often hidden behind the sound of the exhaust. So, one doesn't know till later that the meltdown has occurred. Better explanation of that now follows.

Of the 6,000 track miles, the mileage is pretty evenly split between the two headers and the three exhausts. I am an agressive driver, who is new to the sport and is admittedly not easy on equipment (I'm getting better). Again, the ideal test mule. I have also always sought out the best instructors at the best schools wherever I've gone. I have had 3 instructors who were actually the heads of the schools take me on. That is relevant in that they push me hard, but more importantly, to a man, they get a kick out of the Mini and drive it hard themselves, which I encourage. I want to see what it can do and how to do it.

I earlier wondered whether the Milltek cat failure was gradual or happened all at once (let's call that catastrophic failure). Upon further review of my notes, etc. I lean strongly towards the latter.

The first failure happened at Thunderhill http://www.thunderhill.com/ last April during a session in which my car was driven as hard as it has ever been driven by Jacques Andres owner of Bay Bridge Motors http://www.baybridgemotors.com/ who was helping set up the car for One Lap Of America (OLOA). The only time I have held my breath while in my car was while I was a passenger with Jacques driving. I can only dream that I would turn just one lap one day that fast. Anyway, near the end of the first day the car got very quiet. Quieter than stock. Figured we had a problem with the cat, but finished that day and the next and arranged for a quick replacement as I was leaving for Back East and OLOA in 5 days. Got it done.

Pretty much chalked up that problem to Jacques' driving, and I guess now that I look back, rightfully so. However, I must mention, there also were reports of a handful of other Milltek/Quicksilver (same company) failures from two different sources around that time. Total less than 10, all driven hard. I chalked it up to "that's racing" and new product development.

The second failure was on the first day of my last HPDE of 2004 at Spokane Raceway Park http://www.spokaneracewaypark.com/Roadcourse/index.html . This track has the longest straightaway in North America, nearly a mile and you enter it around 70 in third gear. I've hit the aero limit there at around 140-142 (I didn't spend a lot of time looking at the speedo ). Generally though, I'm more interested in learning how to take turn two than seeing how fast I can go in the straight. I usually do about 125. Anyway, this day I had an instructor who heads the school in Mission B. C. http://www.performancedriversclub.org/home.asp and he really pushed me hard into turn two and had me double-apexing, which helped me going faster than I've ever been in that turn and this was my fifth day at that track.

Near the end of that day is when the check engine light came on. I have a code reader and it gave a catalytic converter not working at optimum code. Which reminds me, the first failure gave no code. The materials just jammed in the cat outlet. Anyway, I tried to reset the code to no avail. It just came back on after a few laps. I finished the two days and drove the car like that this Winter (not many miles) waiting for Mini-madness's new header.

The new Madness header is what I need. The craftsmanship is impressive. I have it jet-coated. It has the swappable test pipe/cat combo. BTW, Randy, George does not import his headers, but they are made in the U. S. and were developed by him and the manufacturer through their R & D.

So, in conclusion, I'm at the edge of things. I'm one of the Mini community's lab rats. Hey, I'm 57 years old, I don't have a lot of time for green bananas. Batten down the hatches, full speed ahead. I want to go fast now. For all you owners of these two products out there, my experience is most likely not yours. I may have incorrectly assumed that many knew this and really needed to fill in the blanks.

Live long and prosper.

 

Great recall and a good read ... Maybe you should write a log ..BOOK

MINI ACROSS AMERICA into MEXICO and BACK ,,,

 

Just as long as he doesn't begin each log entry with "star date..."

 

... to seek out strange new headers and blow them up!

 

, Though not a trekkie I know some of the lingo. Made me laugh.

Maybe that's my mission and I need a new business card, "Mini parts, you make 'em, I break 'em". Test pilot for hire.

 

I installed the madness exhaust header on my 03 jcw 's'- fits perfect- enhances the sound of the jcw exhaust just right- it definitely growls more now..... seems to rev a little more freely at the upper end, too- highly recommended!!!

 

Here is my burned out Madness Header -Version 1, I have the Miltek CAT back

Note the CAT extruded into the pipe, pulled an O2 sensor with it .... power way down, lost 20 mph down the straights ...It also git more quiet

Hopefully, George is sending me a new one, version 2

 

wow! that header looks awful! have you heard of any other madness headers self-destructing like yours did? my car seems to run the same way as it did when I installed the header back in 7-04. I don't track my car, and it only has 8,500 miles since new. let me know if other madness headers are coming apart. did you notice a small breathing gain when you first put it on- and how long before the performance decreased. thanks-

 

Yes,

I noticed a small gain, especially up high in rpm....

I put 7000 miles on it, a lot of track time ...

version 2 header is supposed to be better, we will see