How much stronger will stage 1 or 2 feel on a MCS vs NM piggy?

Thanks in advance.

 

Do you have the supporting mods for a stage 2 tune?

 

I don’t have nm piggy but I do have a JB4. I’ve been running map 2 which is great but it’s not the smoothest of rides. I recently just purchased Mario’s dp and a fmic. They say with that I would be equivalent to a Bytetronik stage 1. I’m looking to get a stage 2 tune in the future since I have the supporting mods. Map2 is 6psi over stock with 93 octane, and it’s good enough to keep up with the big boys.

 

Just curious if you could briefly describe what is not smooth about it. Does the power curve not seem smooth (like if you dyno'd it, it would have dips) Does the idle RPM misfire or seem rough. Does the engine seem more noisy? Knock sensor?

My response isn't helpful to your actual question, but my 2019 JCW I've never run a piggyback device, but I ran a Bytetronik ECU Stage 1 for a while, then got the FMIC and the downpipe (high Flow with 200 cel cat) and upgraded to their Stage 2. In my opinion, both tunes had absolutely smooth power applications, never a CEL and never a misfire of any kind. However, about 2 of 10 accelerations produces a mild rattle, it's definitely not an engine knock, but it either comes from a heat shield or possibly sounds like a plastic charge pipe gets a rattle in it. I go back to the stock ECU setting and cannot reproduce it. Just wondering if your piggy back not being smooth would be similar to what I'm describing. One of these days I'm going to investigate it further, but no way I'm getting rid of the ECU tune. It's too much fun.

 

To me the car is jerky in map 2 where all the power is up front. There’s a slight delay then then a bunch of boost, it’s ok but power is not continuous like a tune.. more power up fro t then dips in the mids.

 

Warren -

Thoughts on running a stage-1 BT ECU map while running the gear and equipment for the Stage-2?

Im wondering if it may be "easier / less strain" on the motor and what not if I keep the Stage-1 BT ECU map I have on there, but add the goodies that you'd need for Stage-2.

Did you happen to run your car w/ the Stage-1 w/ the Stage-2 supporting mods and if so, thought?

Thanks!

 

Mcaanda,
Here's some of my thoughts and a summary of what I did. To start, I'm going to talk about that rattle that showed up when I installed the Stage 1 ECU tune and ran factory everything else (factory intake, inter-cooler, factory downpipe and exhaust). It would show up about 20% of the time I accelerated with some modest aggression, not even full throttle. I went back to the factory map and I can't reproduce it. The tuner was in Orlando for something else and was nice enough to stop over and do some data and listen to it. He said he heard nothing abnormal whatsoever and explained about the predetination knocks (which I was aware of anyway) and said he can hear when that happens and would know if that's what it is. He said there was absolutely no predetination knock whatsoever. Anyway, I'm convinced he was right and it's somewhere in the exhaust or heat shield or charge pipe. They suggested it's what can happen with higher boost. OK, so I'm done talking about the occasional rattle.

I then installed the Millteck High Flow Downpipe ssxm429 (it does have a 200CEL catalytic converter and is not catless) and also did the larger Forge IC for the JCW. And switched out the air filter with the K&N performance filter but no other options. No Induction pipe changes or anything. I ran the Stage 1 for about 600 miles (easily 20 or more short drives) with the upgraded downpipe and the FMIC and it never triggered any codes for what that's worth. (I don't think a Stage 1 codes out the Check Engine Light from coming on, but I think the Stage 2 does use the software to prevent it from triggering the CEL. I'm not positive on that.

My thoughts with the Stage 1 (full factory): "Ah....see this motor does have some potential, I'm liking it"

My thoughts with Stage 1 and the performance Downpipe, FMIC & K&N: "Now this engines got some serious pull, pretty darn stout. Dammit, this is how it should have been sold in the first place."

My thoughts with Stage 2: "OK, this thing's showing hints of a gnarly beast in there somewhere, I can see why the factory wouldn't necessarily need to sell it this way"

Keep in mind, none of this was from a dyno, just my thoughts. I really did like it with the Stage 1 plus the downpipe. Worrying about longevity never crossed my mind. But, with the Stage 2 I'll admit, longevity has crossed my mind. I don't track it or run it hard for extended periods, just shorter bursts now and then, with that type of driving, I wonder if the upgraded inter-cooler really helps the performance that much. But I know, the tuners all seem to insist on the FMIC for Stage 2. With my driving habits I just don't see my turbo climbing in temperature and staying there. So perhaps just get the Stage 1 and add the downpipe. My short experience with it was very good. .

 

Warren - Great reply and thank you for taking the time to set all that out. It sounds as if our driving style is very similar being that I too will not nor have any track time. There's a small track here but for anything of significance I'd have to go to Salt Lake or Denver which is about 4 hours either way which is just too much to make a day of it which then means, hotel, doggie day care, ect...

It sounds like the best bet would be to get the DP and a free flowing exhaust and see where that leads me. If I happen to find a couple extra three 20's in the couch cushion I might think about a large IC. I guess it would end up along the lines of Stage 1+... Almost ready for 2, but scared of pushing the limits of what I'm personally comfortable with.

Thanks again - I really appreciate the reply.

 

For those who are doing stage 2 be aware that DP and FMIC and presumably free flowing exhaust and an upgraded intake AREN'T the only supporting mods you SHOULD do. I dug around a whole lot to find out that the pistons and the rings are the weakest links on these B46/48 engines. If your stage 2 tune landed you right under 240whp then you're most likely fine. But if you're running higher boost and going beyond 240-250whp you should seriously take a look at upgrading the internals a tad. These little motors have forged connecting rods, good crank, and a closed deck cylinder wall, but that cast aluminum piston and those rings just aren't going to hold up to power with such 82mm bore and 94.6 stroke configuration, too much stress on the piston along the rim side. The longer stroke does put better numbers for low to mid range power, but the side stress is much larger than the previous gen design. Also, the gap between the piston rings are thinner than the previous generation and even thinner than the N20. They did this so that the skirt support can be longer to keep the piston from clattering inside the wall. Need to beef up the pistons before you play hard, folks!

 

We want to play hard, but I’ll take 240whp over stock as a daily any day. That’s the dilemma we all have. full bolt on with stage 1 tune or full bolt on with piggyback?

 

If one has to choose between the IC vs the DP, then IC would be the better of the two since you're working on the cold side. This would make the engine 'happier' since it's getting cooler/denser air. Compared to the stock IC, the Airtec has much temp recovery (even while doing runs on the dyno with limited air flow). On the streets, the Airtec beats the stock IC all the way around (without a doubt).

Happy motoring!