Any updates? How did the tune go? Interested because I have a set-up thats very similar to yours except I am pushing four wheels and a few more lbs. Had my car tuned by Manic yesturday and theres a huge difference between JB+ and the custom tune. From a/f's to boost to driveability and seat of the pants fun! Would love to hear your observations.

 

Got to see Lenny, Mark, Mike and Russell at Renntech yesterday. Can't say enough great things about their service. The Renntech map is more linear than the JB+ with less boost and torque on the bottom end but more HP on the top end. The JB+ made 205 HP whereas the Renntech tune made 213 HP at the same boost level. So I'm pretty damn happy with Lenny and the guys.

The E45HP turbo that I purchased and installed however has me livid at the moment. The intent was for a custom dual stage tune. Sport mode at 21psi and 18psi in normal mode. With a JCW turbo I could have expected 240 to 245+ HP. Unfortunately, we never made it to making the intermediate map as the turbo would not make over 17.7psi of pressure running the high end map.

That is the same pressure it made with the JB+ at 100%. Before the tune I wasn't to concerned because others had issues with the JB+ and aftermarket intake setups not boosting as high as the factory airbox. I assumed that was the issue. Unfortunately it was not. It was the turbo itself not being able to exceed that limit.

I still have my old turbo so I am going to use a hand vacuum pump with gauge to compare the vacuum required to fully retract the wastegate actuator. That should let me know if the spring in the actuator is the issue. I'll also be checking the wastegate pre-load. In addition I intend to remove the down pipe and inspect the wastegate valve and seal as well as measure tip clearance on the impeller and turbine. One way or another I will find out what is causing this problem. It's really to bad to because the turbo has the potential on paper to be an excellent performer and great seller for JM Cooper.

At this point I can not recommend the E45HP to anyone until the issues with these units are resolved. Apparently Lenny has run across this issue with these turbos before and I know of at least 4 other people here on NAM having the same problems with them not making boost. So at the moment your best bet for max boost is the 2013 JCW turbo as it has had some improvements made in the design or the hybrid that Luis at PAW has developed.

 

I am so sorry to hear of your E45 troubles. I can't remember if you said so already but did you swap the wastegate actuator? In other words, put the one from your old turbo on the E45? The wastegate that comes with the E45 is smaller and can't hold boost the same. I apologize if you did swap it out and this becomes a silly question.

 

Better to find out now and hopefully a simple solution before anyone else stubs a toe on the issue. I didn't swap the actuator since it came with a new actuator and recirc valve installed. That's why I want to use a hand pump vacuum with a gauge to see if the same amount of vacuum produces the same amount of travel on both actuators. It is possible that the new actuator has a stiffer spring or less diaphragm surface area which could result in insufficient travel.

 

Yes, I think that's your issue. The actuator needs to be swapped. Arric also advised the same. Surely, A test to confirm won't hurt. When I compared the two actuators, the stock one for the N18 is larger in diameter.

 

Now this is sounding familiar... What you are describing is what I saw with my waste-gate at OEM settings.

My current arrangement has the E45hp, Alta mechanical recirc valve, and waste-gate closed adjusted 6-7mm more closed than stock. This is letting me see 18.5psi with DNA/Battle Tuning stage 3 map. Scheduled for dyno tomorrow afternoon to baseline this setup and prep for stage 4 map.

I will be posting results back on my original turbo issue thread as not to thread jack too much.

 

Awesome. Thanks for the tip. I tried to call Arric twice today but wasn't able to reach him. I might try using a push/pull gauge also to compare not only travel but the amount of force generated by a given vacuum.

 

No problem Taz. Your input is always welcome. Hopefully this is something that can be resolved easily without having to replace turbos. Taking all these measurements may take a few days but...

"What can't be measured can't be improved."

 

I just did the swap of the turbo and now it's at 11psi down to 9psi, i did the wastegate swap and also the DV

 

I have some good news and bad news...but first some data on the differences between the wastegate actuators. These measurement were taken using a digital caliper, hand vacuum pump w/gauge 0-50" HG and spring pull scale 0-30lbs, all recently calibrated.

Stock MCS Turbo
Actuator diameter: 2.6"
Vacuum to close wastegate: 12" HG
Travel to WG closure: 0.5"
Pull required to unseat WG w/15" HG applied: 11 lbs.
Pull required to unseat WG w/12" HG applied: 6 lbs.
Pull required to unseat WG w/8" HG applied: 3.7 lbs.

JM Cooper E45HP
Actuator diameter: 2.3"
Vacuum to close wastegate: 8" HG
Travel to WG closure: 0.4"
Pull required to unseat WG w/15" HG applied: 10 lbs.
Pull required to unseat WG w/12" HG applied: 5.5 lbs.
Pull required to unseat WG w/8" HG applied: 3 lbs.

This didn't fill me with a warm and fuzzy, as I was hoping for a bigger disparity in the performance of the two actuators. But I went ahead and swapped the actuators placing the stock one on the JM Cooper unit and began altering pre-load. All adjustments were made to the stock actuator at the stock setting of 0.5" from fully open to fully closed. Each full revolution of the retaining nuts is equal to 1 mm.

2.5 turns in equals the same pre-load and travel 0.4" as the unit when it shipped from the factory with identical performance 17.7 psi.
5 turns in results in a wastegate travel of .3125" and 18 psi and change.
7.5 turns in results in a wastegate travel of .215" and 19.5 to 20 psi.

Unfortunately, any higher adjustment than this results in excessive back pressure and the vehicle will backfire under heavy load and boost. In addition, at 7.5 turns in the ability of the DME to reduce boost at high rpm is affected. Whether running the sport tune or not the vehicle will boost to similar levels as the pre-load has closed the wastegate to where it can not reduce pressure output.

As such I am left with the conclusion that the KO3 turbine is simply too small to generate the torque necessary to spin a 45mm impeller under a boost load higher than 17 to 18 psi. If that's all your looking for then the E45HP makes a good investment in a mid-range turbo as the low rpm's it turns should extend the bearing life quite nicely.

If your quest however is higher boost I believe you would be better served with a 40 to 42mm impeller coupled to a KO3 as the 45mm and above impeller simply must be mated to a KO4 turbine for optimum performance.

 

Nice data set! Your finding match my less scientific "drive around, change things, drive around" method.

If your theory is right, no amount of head, exhaust, or intake work will help the turbo make more boost, correct?

Need to look at the charts, but at 18psi is the e45hp pushing more CFMs than a JCW turbo at 21psi?

I have yet to get on the dyno (local shop's dyno is busted...) to compare my power output to a tuned JCW setup. FWIW, I was seeing 230hp/245tq with my JCW turbo.

I would be ok with a turbo that 'only' pushed my numbers up to say 250hp/270tq but made that power all the way to redline with less stress. But that remains to be seen as no e45hp owner has been able to show a dyno to that effect.

Very frustrating... I think both you and I were up-sold to the e45hp. So are you sticking with the e45hp or will you try to exchange for the 42-series? Personally I will stick with the e45hp until DNA/Battle have a crack at it with their Stage 4 tuning.

 

Had further discussions with Arric at JM. An additional difference between the actuators is the the size of the restrictor. The JM unit has a smaller restrictor orifice in the actuator which would not be readily apparent from my tests. The vacuum controller for our wastegate is based off of duty cycles as the valve opens and closes rapidly versus a screw type metered orifice system. On a duty based system this will definitely have a more pronounced reduction in the ability of the actuator to hold boost. But holding the wastegate closed is not the problem its the amount of back pressure induced when doing so.

During my test I adjusted the pre-load as far as 9mm and made over 20psi but exhaust back pressure induced is far to high in the KO3 turbine as its trying to spin the 45mm impeller against that pressure.

I will be upgrading the turbo to an E45R which utilizes the KO4 turbine instead of the KO3. I did some additional research and found the following information for comparison purposes of some of the solutions available.

MCS Turbo
Compressor: 37.8mm inducer, 50mm exducer
KO3 Turbine: 45mm inducer, 40.5mm exducer

JCW Turbo
Compressor: 40mm inducer, 50mm exducer
KO3 Turbine: 45mm inducer, 40.5mm exducer

JM E45HP
Compressor: 45mm inducer, 56mm exducer
KO3 Turbine: 45mm inducer, 40.5mm exducer

JM E45R
Compressor: 45mm inducer, 56mm exducer
KO4 Turbine: 50mm inducer, 42mm exducer

JM GT Dominator
Compressor: 47mm inducer, 56mm exducer
KO4 Turbine: 50mm inducer, 44mm exducer

Alta Hybrid
Compressor: 43mm inducer, 56mm exducer
KO4 Turbine: 50mm inducer, 42mm exducer

The inducer on the turbine is what generates the torque necessary to spin the compressor whereas the exducer increases rpm. The 45mm inducer of the KO3 is fine for smaller compressors and for the E45HP up to the limit we have noted. But unfortunately the physics would seem to dictate that is insufficient for pushing a larger compressor at high boost.

 

If and that's a big IF my theory is correct then nope I don't think so. This vehicle is my first turbo charged car so I'm learning as quickly as I can but still have a lot of catching up to do.

As far as CFM's go yes the E45HP turning at the same RPM as a JCW will flow more air and generate more boost. I just don't believe our KO3 turbine is up to it. If you look at most all of the turbo listed above (with the exception of ours) and divide the turbine inducer by the compressor exducer diameter the ratios are all about .90. The EFR turbo's in Borg Warner's tech data files are very similar. The E45HP however has a ratio of .80. Combine that with a turbine housing A/R of .36 to .40 (depending on source) and as the old saying goes "I don't think we can get there from here".

Oh before I forget I have to mention Arric again and the customer service at JM Cooper. Straight up guy and they stand behind their products. I had read in the information provided when I purchased the E45HP on changing turbo's if there was a issue. There was zero argument and Arric's attitude was great throughout our conversation as we discussed different turbo choices. They really do want to provide the best service and product they can.

 

Can i set the jb+ to 100% w/o having any problems? I have the E45HP turbo, custom 2.5" downpipe and exhaust, intake and 93oct. (auto tranny) thanks guys.

 

I did but the usual disclaimers apply and your mileage may vary as anything over the stock setting is not recommended. Colder plugs with a tighter gap, start with default setting, log engine parameters, adjust, log, lather, rinse, repeat. Keep an eye out for pulled timing. Anything over 3 degree drop would warrant turning it back down.

I lost torque on the bottom end with the custom tune vs the JB+ but picked it up on the top end with a more linear and controllable throttle response. To be honest with the JB+ at 100% I was hitting 17 psi below 3000 rpm sometimes. Probably not a good thing since most self destructs occur at low rpm under high boost. That's why running an E85 mix is a good idea.

 

The drop should be measured @ WOT? And i have jcw spark plugs witb 0.22 gap with 93oct. Here in PR we don't have e85 :(

 

WOT is when I recorded the majority of my datalogs for analysis. With the JB+ cranked that high however you don't need to be at WOT to see some high boost numbers so I also recorded some at mid to high mid load while rolling on the throttle. The R56 has an excellent knock sensor bolted to the back of the engine. That's what triggers the timing retard. Just wish I knew a way to tap into that circuit so I could install an indicator. One could always pick up something like this.

http://tunertools.com/gizzmo-electro...ert-light.html

 

I've also noticed that the R56 definitely likes to go full boost at low RPM. That's one reason why I haven't turned up the JB+ even though I'm running meth. I'm not quite sure if the meth has actually started to spray yet. I wish their was a way to log when the meth starts to spray (IAT is an indication but it is laggy).

 

An easy way is to add an LED light. I put a Power rocker switch and LED by my left leg. When I hit the specified boost for the meth to come one, I would see my feet light up, from the LED. This let me know the meth was spraying

 

While removing the short ram intake and reinstalling the DDMWorks RIS I noticed the following cracks on the factory intake tube. Sorry for the quality of the photos. Shaky Jake was holding the camera.





Upon closer examination the intake tube has a step at the end of it and while after removing the rubber grommet allows the tube to be installed it leaves a gap where the clamp sits. Tightening clamp will cause this to crack. So it was time for a new intake tube.



Notice the step at the end. That needs to be removed so that you end up with something like this.



Unfortunately, this leaves a gap between the tube and the turbo inlet. This can easily be resolved by purchasing black silicone tape, sometimes referred to as fusion tape. It contains no adhesive but sticks to itself especially when pulled a little tight while wrapping the end of the turbo inlet. It is also rated to 500°F. Do NOT use electrical tape under any circumstances. Most are only rated to 100°F or so and adhesive on the tape would probably make a huge mess as it melted and got sucked into the turbo.

 

Thanks for the tip on the intake tube. I will have a look at mine and modify as well.

I will be testing the 45mm turbo at 1.5 bar soon. Waiting on the Manic SPS switch so that I can change between the tunes. I will be testing stock tune, 1.1 bar tune, 1.35 bar tune (running that now) and the race tune (1.5 bar) so, we shall see how the turbo fairs on the dyno between all those settings. Nick (Manic engineer) said the turbo handled and kept up with whatever boost he threw at it when tuning. We shall see, I guess.

 

Hope it goes well! I'm jealous of having the switchable maps. The boost splits are almost the exact same I was looking for in my custom tune. 1.3 bar in normal mode and 1.5 in sport mode. I'll be taking it back to DST Motorsports for another dyno run now that the turbo is boosting higher. Just so I can compare apples to apples. Forgot to mention I installed the Powerflex lower engine mount bushing. Nice little mod and easy as hell to install. If you have an auto definitely go with the yellow bushing. Little bit of vibration at a stop in drive with the AC on but otherwise very smooth.

Ordered the E45R today so I'll be swapping that out later and see how it performs after the W/G is adjusted properly. I'll probably post a separate review for that turbo. I'm pretty sure I'll need to take it back to Renntech to have it mapped for the new boost profile of the KO4. Probably have Lenny raise the boost a little in the lower RPM ranges while I'm at it.

 

Been following this to see your results, do me a huge favor and post a link to your new review here when you do it! (lets us be lazy)

good luck, and thanks for all your work/info thus far!

 

Thanks man. You essentially will have the same switchable maps with the sport toggle. That's a real nice amenity. The only thing the sport button does now in my mini is firm up the shifts and steering wheel. Very interested how your mini fairs with more boost on the dyno.

Need to look into those engine mounts. Never thought of their usefulness on an auto but sounds intriguing. Speaking of auto... I noticed the shifts become a "roll in"as opposed to "snap in" with more power I throw at it. Lower boost/power and it's snappy.... Lay into power and the shifts are drawn out. Nick said that's typical with the auto. Is it a product of the torque converter or do we need to figure out how to tune the trans puter now? There's got to be a solution.

Good luck with the e45r.... Very interested in the difference. Was on the fence with that when I was ordering.

Sent from my iPhone using IB AutoGroup

 

Are you using the JB+ and a tune from Renntech? And if so can I ask why?