Ok so iv seen forums about this but i still dont understand what it is exactly. im looking to get a water meth kit. from what i understand they can be set as a simulated intercooler or as a low grade nitrous? (obviously not the same but the same ideas?)

I currently have a:

15% pulley
MSD coil pack+wires
1 stage colder plugs

and an intake coming soon.

I planned to get an intercooler as a next step but came across water meth that seems much cheaper. I guess im just looking for any advice as too how i should set it up (for cooling or more power). or just more of an explanation of what it is.

 

You're on the right track with your thinking, basicly W/M is an enrichment & cooling agent (that's basicly where the similarities to Nitrous ends)

Systems can be incorporated for two basic uses:
Cooling
Cooling & Power

Cooling, the fluid will cool the air charge being introduced into the engine, similar to a really good I/C on steroids when under power, I personally think it's a better option for a "street" car than a good I/C. Here's an example of my reasoning:
Let's say @ a certain ambient temp. your stock I/C is cooling intake air to 115* @WOT, a GPIC may bring that temp. down to 105*, that's about it, even with it's super fast recovery rate you're still prob. never do better than 20* below the stock I/C @ WOT, plus there's still the variables of higher ambient temps. With W/M you're looking at a difference near -40* or more, and that's everytime you go to WOT, and a rise in ambient will not effect the W/M in a 1:1 ratio, it will have a "less than" effect.

Cooling & Power, while cooling the intake charge it also enriches the fuel, basicly acting as an octane booster, raising the threshold of detonation, therefore enabling you to "safely" run a leaner AFR, and since "lean is mean", gives you the ability to make more power. But you have to tune for this, and either have the ability to change your tune to run WOT w/o it or just NOT run WOT w/o it, or you could really hurt something.

As far as systems go, if you're using it just for cooling, one of the lesser, "boost" based systems will work just fine. (Devils Own, Snow, AEM) But if you're going to use it for power, and tune for it, the Howerton Aquamist is the safest & best way to go.

(there are of course more technical explanations of how & why, but these are the basics. If you'd like something more indepth PM me)

 

Accidental Double Post.

 

BlwnAway hit it pretty well, but:

Don't leave out the cleaning aspect.

Every time you spray meth / water, you're essentially steam cleaning the intake manifold, back of intake valves, valve stems, and piston tops. This is great for port injected cars running forced induction, and in my mind, essential for direct injected cars running forced induction. Carbon deposits from PCV and EGR re-burning will be obliterated

It's also important to note that meth will act as an octane booster (race gas / 116 octane) while water will not (methanol is combustible, water is not). With methanol, as stated above, you can tune for it by leaning out your fuel mix, increasing boost, and advancing timing in areas; this gets dangerous though, as your motor's safety is now somewhat in the hands of a properly functioning meth injection system, depending on how aggressive and meth dependent your tune is. However, water has far better charge cooling capabilities than meth when the only goal is to lower IAT temps through evaporative cooling.

For MINI specific questions about meth / water injection, I've found Howerton Engineering to be the most knowledgeable, as they've done tons of logging and research on different set-ups with both R53 and R56 models. They are also one of the only folks out there offering an injection kit based off Injector Duty Cycle (Aquamist's). You'll also have to weigh the options of single point injection / progressive / IDC based. Give 'em a call with any questions you may have. http://howertonengineering.com/mini/


I find the following to be very useful when looking at injection options / mixes. This was supplied by Rich @ Aquamist.


"The following charts are calculated based on:

10Kg of air, Gasoline's latent heat capacity of 350KJ/Kg
Water's latent heat capacity of 2256KJ/Kg
Methanol's latent heat capacity of 1109KJ/Kg

Injection water at different ratio to fuel at 100% water and 75% Water/25% Methanol. You can see the at 100% water injection, only 3% of w/f fuel ratio is enough to replace 2.5 point of a/f ratio (dotted line). As soon as 25% of Methanol is added, the a/f ratio is dropprd to 12.0 - loosing some cooling capacity






Each of the following chart show a 25% percent increase in Methanol concentration of the mix.





lastly, just methanol is added and no water. The chart on the right is 100% water






The two charts show (first and last) that you will require to inject twice the amount of methanol to equal the latent heat of water alone. Methanol is relatively low cost and very effective as a coolant so what is the problem?

When higher concentration of methanol is injected, you need to lean your engines a/f ratio to accommodate the extra fuel or your engine will bog down and loose power. Consequentially - one runs the risk of putting the engine into heat stress if the supply of methanol is suddenly interrupted. Injecting water does not affect the a/f ratio. It appears that 50/50 mix has the best of both worlds.

In either cases, having a good w/a injection system with reliable "system fault" diagnostic capability is essential especially if you are running a high concentration of Methanol.
__________________
Richard L
aquamist technical support"



Personally, I'd run a 50/50 mix (as stated above) or a 60/40 (water/meth) mix. Will a meth / water injection kit make power ? Well, unless you tune for it, gains will be very small, BUT, what people forget is that in hot temps or with a heat-soaked engine bay, you're car is not running as it should. It's eating hot air and retarding timing, making less power than it should. Meth / water will restore that power that was lost do to heat. Think of it like this: You know how on a nice, cool, 45 or 50 degree fall night, your car pulls like a god damn beast ? It's like driving that same car, year 'round.

 

Thank you for the info! It seems to me as though tuning for power could potentially be dangerous. I think i will plan on using it for strictly cooling incoming air as much as possible. my plan was getting an I/C anyways so i think this will be a good next step. has anyone had any experience with the Maddness motorwork W/M inject? if im going for strictly cooling what brand is most preffered?

and i know exactly what your talking about when driving at night around 50 degrees its so fun! compared to heat soak its so slow!

 

Spraying a water/meth mix beats the pants off of any intercooler upgrade. All intercoolers except for front-mount units will promptly get heatsoaked.

Here are R53 specific install instructions by a NAM member: http://www.blimeycabrio.com/?p=592

For this kit: http://autoxcooper.com/devils_own.php
You can get that kit on Ebay, or Devil's Own site, or _____, but it's nice to support a MINI specialist.

This is a progressive kit, meaning that you pick an activation point (in psi), and a full spray point. This allows you to spray a somewhat linear amount of meth/water at both low and high boost. This is achieved by controlling the voltage of the high-pressure pump which controls the meth/water spray. It's debatable which is better, progressive or single stage.

Regarding single stage systems, these activate once you hit a preset psi level, and sprays full-on from that psi level all the way to redline and max boost. If you have one big nozzle spraying at full pump pressure (~150psi) at both 6psi and max boost, the amount of water/meth injected may be perfect at 15psi, but could make your engine bog for a moment at a lower psi set point. Conversely, a smaller nozzle may prevent your from bogging at lower boost levels, but not be performing it's best at higher boost and rpm levels.

If you're honestly interested, give Howerton Engineering a call.

 

Doooo it!

I have it on my 2nd gen mini s.

1st gens love it, 2nd gens need it!


Pulls like a beast in any heat!
The guys above have pretty much covered everything!


Your R53 will thank you

 

I don't mean to thread jack, but the water/meth injection kits intrigue me quite a bit. That being said I suppose I'm just a little unclear about a few things

1. I see that running straight water has the greatest cooling effect. Without tuning and strictly using it as a cooling apparatus is there any danger to the motor if the water were to run out

2. I have a 2007 cooper S and am curious as for a regular driver what systems are best. The aquamist systems look fantastic but very expensive. Are their other kits that allow for great quality in cooling for those who might not be looking for an abundance of power

3. Are there needed or recommended support mods to go along with the water/meth kits to aid in cooling other than a larger inter cooler

I apologize for any naiveness as I am just starting to learn about some of the things that can be done to a mini and am always looking to learn more

 

1) Short answer, No, there is not any danger if the water runs out, and you're using it untuned. Even if you're running a 50/50 mix, there's no danger when it runs out. The danger occurs once you tune for the water/meth. When you tune for it, typically the tuner will pull fuel, advance timing, and add boost (if possible via tuning alone). This makes you dependent on the water/meth for safe power.

2) AquaMist uses a progressive Injector Duty Cycle based system. This is the best way to run water/meth, and delivers the most appropriate amount of water/meth for both partial and full throttle driving. It's linear. Perrin also offers two systems like this. Truth be told, for just some guy looking to cool IAT, prevent detonation, and keep the head clean...any basic boost activated system will work fine. Single stage, progressive, whatever. They'll all help.

3) Nope. Don't even worry about the inetrcooler. It'll certainly help, sure. But the water/meth alone will make a significant difference.

 

If it helps anyone with an R56 S I've install a HFS-2 kit on my car and didn't install a separate tank for the w/m. The cargo area is small enough without taking up space with tanks and pump. Email the photos and explanations to Howerton Engineering he should Still have them if you want to see them. I searched the crap out of the web and could find any instructions on that type of install on the second gen.

 

Howerton is a great reference. They've really tried it all with the MINIs, it terms of water/meth solutions.

The Perrin kit that I'm referring to is the PWI-2 Water Injection System. It can run off a 0-5v MAP sensor, or it can do Injector Duty Cycle based injection. It doesn't come with a tank, and the pump is tiny and nice looking compared to other systems. It also has the best nozzle system. Instead of threading the nozzle directly into your piping, you thread in a bung, which accepts the nozzle. This allows you to change nozzles easily without wearing down the tapped hole in your pipe. It also allows quick plugging should you decide to remove the nozzle altogether.

 

Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=2002

 

Trying really hard to write an account of my experience with the HFS-4 system but I have been cursed by a good (really busy) mechanic and also a really sick mechanic. Hoping to make it later this week.

 

Just to clarify, the major difference between the progressive and single stage is that a single stage is a continuous spray where as the progressive will increase the spray linearly as you approach WOT correct?
In which case in looking for future tuning a progressive system would be better.

I checked into the PWI-2 and it looks like Perrin isn't selling them anymore. I have found a few on ebay, but are there any other brands out there that would be on par with them that are recommended?

 

Yes, progressive is going to be best for anyone serious about tuning. One step better than progressive boost based is progressive IDC based, as stated earlier. I don't know of any other IDC based systems besides Perrin and AquaMist. There was a Perrin PWI-2 on Ebay for $250/ last week...which is a helluva deal. I almost bought it, and still may.

 

Hi ignitionmodule, I did see that install but the tank was still in the back, with mine everything is in the front and almost completely hidden. And the led button looks stock inside the car.

 

Here's how I did mine:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...new-parts.html

2 gallon tank/pump unit is in the spare tire well under the false floor.

Soon, very soon.

 

I have done a little research on the Snow and AEM systems and it seems like there are a lot of complaints out there. Then again if you look for anything you'll find bad reviews online. I guess I'm looking for anyone who has experience with any of these systems or any others out there for someone who isn't going to tune for the meth and use it more for its cooling/ cleaning effects. Any recommendations on what system and why?

 

I am installing the HFS-4 system strictly for cooling and detonation control. Should be done in about a week it so.

 

Can I ask what the whole system runs? Is it that much better than installing one of the less expensive options and if so how?

 

It's a bit pricey. ~$600, IIRC.

If you're looking for an IDC based system, the Perrin PWI-2 is nice and there's a new one on Ebay for $250... Super deal.

I think for the Average Joe, the simpler (cheaper) systems are perfectly fine.

 

As you can see in my SIG I'm running the Aquamist HFS-2 system, it's on all the time I never turn it off and it does a system check and turns on automatically everyone the car is started. That's why I spent a bit more for a good system because it's in constant use. From day one the system has been faultless, no over spraying bogging down the engine. With these systems your spraying a set ratio of w/m to fuel, maybe with one of the cheaper types there either under my or over spraying and overall using more w/m so over the life of their system will cost about same. I'm no expert just my thoughts on the subject.

 

Great info from a lot of guys. I just wanted to add my opinion on the Aquamist system. I have the HFS-3 and I couldn't be happier. It doesn't take much to dial it in and once you have it set up you're good to go. Jeff over at Howerton Engineering knows Minis and the Aquamist inside and out and I highly recommend reaching out to him to ask why you would want to choose Aquamist over the competition. For Gen 2 Minis spraying the water/meth off of the IDC is a really great way to conserve the methanol until you actually need it. The Aquamist parts are also high quality which is another reason why I chose it over others.

Also, I just noticed that for a limited time CA residents get tax free purchases on the Aquamist kit and Twin Tanks at Howerton Engineering. Sweet!

 

Right at $1000 shipped with the 2 gallon tank. Probably more than I need but it is set up and tuned for DI Minis. Support is really good too. They've always responded to and answered all of my questions.

 

Running mine off the washer tank(holds 4.5 litres), no space taken up at all pump is hidden and button installed between DSC and sports button. A cheaper(kit and shipping)and stealthier option, only question I get is "what is that green that's light flashing" Haha.