I am about to order adjustable lower rear control arms: If any of you have
info on how much shorter I need to make the control arm to correct the
camber about 1degree please, advise me.

Frankly, I do not see the need for a full alignment. It was correct prior
to putting in new springs. It seems all I need is to be able to dial out the
approx 1degree extra neg. camber equally on each side and be done.

Am I missing something....? And why does the front not appear to have
changed at all....?

Bad4Fun

 

>>I am about to order adjustable lower rear control arms: If any of you have
>>info on how much shorter I need to make the control arm to correct the
>>camber about 1degree please, advise me.

The normal method of adding rear control arms is you set the length of the adjustable arm to the same as the stock part and you install it. Then you measure the negative rear camber and adjust the control arms as needed.

>>Frankly, I do not see the need for a full alignment. It was correct prior
>>to putting in new springs. It seems all I need is to be able to dial out the
>>approx 1degree extra neg. camber equally on each side and be done.

I had a 4 wheel thrust alignment done. I don't think there was a rear wheel only option. Or maybe the cost would have been the same.

The amount of adjustment can vary from car to car based on wear and individual differences (MC vs MCS since weights are different).

It is not easy to estimate that a given length of control arm will yield a certain negative camber.
Good luck.

 

Minihune,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate what you are saying, but so far
I have done all of the modifications to my car with no trouble at all.
Well not everything, Randy did my pulley and air intake.

I realize that I cannot with super accuracy determine the exact camber
without "real" suspension shop tools. Its not about saving $100 either.
I just don't think it is rocket science... screw it in...screw it out..

I also appreciate that some cars may differ. I think however if enough
people using the same springs/control arms/wheel dia./mcs would
compare notes there would be little if any difference.

Locally we have only one shop with the new style wheel attachment, the
one most commonly used very often causes wheel damage. I don't know
about you but I don't want to risk having my nice RPMs bunged up.

Bad4Fun

 

You really really need to have someone align the car properly after installing lowering springs. It does not just effect camber, it also effects toe as well, both front and rear. As you increase negative camber, you also increase toe out. Toe out is great for autocross, but it makes for a less stable vehicle for daily street use, one that is more prone to rotate when you do not expect it (rain, emergency avoidance maneuvers, etc).

Replacing both rear control arms is also a very good plan, as you really need both upper and lower to correctly adjust the rear toe and camber. Adjusting either one individually will tweak both camber and toe at the same time... and if you have only the one set you will likely not get the total adjustment you want.

 

Bad4Fun,

I know what you are getting at.
Each MINI is different. There is no question about that. Alignment can be tricky and when you adjust the rear it has an effect elsewhere that you might not be able to appreciate unless you do a full alignment and check for anything out of specs for the MINI.

Yes you can measure the length of a rear control arm but that does not ensure that the amount of rear negative camber will be as predicted.

Lets say I have H-sport springs and madness rear swaybar on firmest setting and H-sport lower rear control arms.
I have negative 0.75 degrees in the rear and my rear lower control arm length is "x".

If you have a stock suspension set up or different lowering springs then how is length "x" to be adjusted to get negative one degree? It's pretty hard to tell unless you do an alignment. The two control arms may be different lengths to get the two rear alignment numbers fairly equal.

Replacing upper and lower rear control arms would give you even more control over rear alignment but adds to cost and complexity.

If you want to talk to someone about this I'd refer you to Randy at Webbmotorsports.
Good luck.

 

from what I have heard, about 1 turn will correct the rear camber. I am going to do this for my mini this week. It would be great to find a good alignment shop, but I just cant seem to find one that knows what it is doing.

Uber

 

Bad4Fun,

I wouldn't worry about a full allignement either. Most don't even do anything with the H-sport springs. By installing the control arms your making an attempt be better than most. Just make sure you start at the exact lenght with the new arms as the old ones and adjust them shorter the same on each side and you'll be fine. you should have some way of measuring the Camber to see how much you have adjusted it with the turns you made. You can use a large square on a flat floor and measure the rim top and bottom and calculate it. I wouldn't use that method to make sure the right and left sides are the same but it will give you a good indication of how much you have changed both sides assuming you changed them the same amount of turns.

 

I've had great luck using Ryan's method. Adjust the camber until the upper edge of the rim is 12-15mm farther in than the lower lip. Make sure the ground is leval and you'll probably need to go out a try this several times before the the suspension settles to the right camber. According to Ryephile, 12mm will give you around -1.5 degrees. When I first put them according to the instructions, I got a -2.5 on one side and -3.5 on the other Dohhhhh

_________________

 

>>I've had great luck using Ryan's method. Adjust the camber until the upper edge of the rim is 12-15mm farther in than the lower lip. Make sure the ground is leval and you'll probably need to go out a try this several times before the the suspension settles to the right camber. According to Ryephile, 12mm will give you around -1.5 degrees. When I first put them according to the instructions, I got a -2.5 on one side and -3.5 on the other Dohhhhh
>>
>>_________________
>>
>>
>>

I never saw Ryan's post, but what wheel size was that on? It will make a difference if you have 15",16" or 17" wheels.

_________________

 

We both have 17 inch wheels.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ic=24220&7

You could PM him questions about other sizes...I'm sure he could figure it pretty quick. As you can tell by my post....I'm no rocket scientist

_________________

 

You can always buy a camber tool/level for a reasonable amount of $ and do the alignment yourself. Longacre makes on that has a magnet that you can place on the hub of the wheel and see where your camber is reading. There is also a metal frame rig deal that rests on the edge of the rim and allows you to mount the level on that structure, should you not have access to the hub through the center cap.

A cheap alternative is to find the tool that harborfreight sells for around 10$ and see if it works the same. It is analog, but I think Longacre has a similar one and a digital version as well.

Try doing a search for "camber tool" and or "longacre camber" or at harborfreight (cheeeeeeaaap stufffff) 'camber'. It may tide you over until you can get a real alignment. Or just srping for a good tool and split the cost with a few friends in your local MINI club.

I have found that I can adjust rear control arms with the car flat on the ground, if you put some sort of wax paper or like material under the tires so the tire will move in or out as you crank on the arms (H-sport/BMP style or the ALTA design).

 

By the way, here is a pic of the new Alta Rear arms in grey:

http://outmotoring.com/alta_adjustab...trol_arms.html


and the sway bar end links:

http://outmotoring.com/adjustable_sway_bar_links.html


and teh Hsport Promini rear control arms:

http://outmotoring.com/bmp_promini_a...trol_arms.html

 

>>I wouldn't worry about a full allignement either. Most don't even do anything with the H-sport springs.

Just to let you know, I had H-sport springs and rear lower adjustable control arms installed with the length of the control arms equal to the stock arms. Visibly the rear negative camber was much more than stock.

My MCS rode super rough like I was in the space shuttle taking off from Florida. The ride was very jarring and my dash was rattling really bad especially on highways that were rough. I noticed that the car handled very poorly especially braking straight ahead- the car felt squirmy.

I had the alignment done by an alignment specialist. I was told that before they adjusted it my rear camber was -2.4 degrees. I had them adjust it to full factory specs and negative 0.75 degrees for the rear camber. The car felt much smoother and handled great. I drove over the same stretch of bumpy highway and it was much much better with no rattles. I had 17x7 aftermarket rims and Yokohama ES100 215/45-17 tires at the same pressure as before.
The difference is like night and day for me.

I do see other MINIs with H-sport springs and I see their negative camber at over 2 degrees for sure. I usually suggest they consider an alignment or you can rotate your wheels every 3000 miles.

 

here is the technique I use to measure/set rear or front camber:

check for correct air pressure, car on the ground, each wheel on a level pad within 1/8", all wheels, driver in car, 1/2 tank gas. Bounce the suspension to settle it. I use a 24" digital level (a contractor's tool) with 1" spacer blocks so it just touches the top and bottom of the rim and not the rubber.. You will typcicaly get neg 2 degrees with a lowered car. Jack up the rear, adjust, set the car down, bounce the suspension to settle it, roll it 12" forward, 12" back and re-measure. you have to roll the car to let the tires relax to their natural state.