We used to have this debate on the SRT4 forum all the time.

Lets say the turbo is running @200deg the air that flows threw it is going to jack up to probably close to 180deg do you think its going to matter much if the air that started out in that tube 20deg cooler (at the beginning, don't forget heat sink along the tube also). I know guys that ran a small cone right off their 60trim and did perfectly fine.

 

Stealthy because unless you know what you are looking for you will never know.

 

Flywheel bolts mess with ya on the giken?



Its not that the mods dont do anything, they do... just not to the level of advertisement which is made. disclaimers disclaimers disclaimers

 

Amen.

 

FINALLY! Someone who explains it in simple terms so everyone can understand. But there will always be people who disagree with common sense.
Just don't understand why

 

Is it actually the intake that's doing this?

Or is it the Intercooler/Tune/Downpipe combo you've got, the combo that is generally touted as being the best Bang For The Buck to make MINIs perform better?

I think it's fairly clearly the case that CAIs (and boost tubes) DO offer an increase in performance. But it's very minimal - especially when compared to the effect of the Intercooler, Downpipe and Tune have.

A CAI will lower intake temperatures closer to ambient by avoiding the hot air in the engine bay. However, a bigger FMIC will not only drop that extra heat, but also drop much more of the heat generated by the compression and have a much, much more noticable effect on intake temperatures as they hit the engine. [Completely arbitrary numbers: A CAI may drop the at-engine-temperature by 5 degrees (the drop on the cold side != the drop on the hot side), but the FMIC might drop it by 20-30]

Short version: CAIs aren't for you if you're looking for a big power gain part, or if you're looking to spend the least money for the most effect. They're for once you have the foundations all in place, and you're now pushing your engine to get every last ounce of extra advantage you can out of it. .... or if you like the turbo spool noise .

 

No not the flywheel bolts but they were noted on when tearing it apart as they were reused from what was in there previously. The throw out bearing arm snapped less than 10k after install. A certain vendor did not back up his work and I lost a lot of money. I still have the clutch though it is just not in the MINI.

 

I don't regret buying my Alta CAI. Nothing (not much at least) better than that sound. The sounds this car makes w/ mods is one of my favorite things about it!

 

Are you a Republican? Because you are confusing common sense with scientific evidence and facts...lol


Look, the temperature of the air really has nothing to do with what's going on on the hot side (exhaust) of the turbine. The temperature of the intake air is dictated by the gas law, PV=NrT (Ideal gas law where P=pressure, V=volume, N= # of moles of air, r is a gas constant, and T s the temp in degrees Rankin .) and turbine compressor efficiency.

Since volume doesn't change, the number of moles of air really doesn't change, r is constant. SO in simple of terms, as pressure goes up, temp has to go up. Then you add in the starting ambient temp... Then there's the enthalpy and entropy

You get the idea... The colder you start the better it is...

 

Is this subject dead? No where did I read about actual temps being taken in various locations.
I just did this for my own edification and was somewhat surprised. I have a 09 R56 JCW
w/ DDM race intake. I was debating whether the Defender of Speed CAi was better as it pulled air from behind the bulk head.
I used 2 heat sensors simultaneously in various locations to test temps. If anyone is interested I will continue.

 

I'm always interested in a good read. Please do go on, you've peaked my interest.

 

I only saw minimal gains from the butt dyno, but one thing no one can argue is that sound is sweet with a CAI

 

Just read through a bunch of this... here's my $.02 on it. The factory air box pulls air in from beside the drivers side headlight in an effort to get cooler air. Part of me thinks that if there were no benefit to cooler air, Mini would not have spent extra money developing that piece. That being said, the car is already pulling cool air and the plastic tubes it uses to do this are not as apt to heat soak as metal aftermarket parts. Air velocity and volume may be higher with aftermarket intakes, but the factory system is pulling cool air.

 

My mind goes down the path of , if you can feed it cooler air you are aiding somewhat... If you blast the turbo with 100 deg air in and get 200 out ( these are just numbers for discussion ), doesn't it seam if you blasted the turbo with 90 deg air in and get 195,196,197,198,199 out you have done something ??
That just means the cooler has a little less to do ??
I'm all with you for the sound , love the spool noise ...
As far as ramming air down the factory scoop , I feel like you might get a little but there is a boundary layer and laminar flow layers on the hood where the air doesn't really move . That's why dragsters have such tall scoops to get up in the moving/ fresh air.... Just my two cents.....

 

My view: I have had a 98 Porsche 944T with the factory track upgrade (off-road use only). The factory numbers had a stock 944T at 250 BHP. The track kit from Porsche included a different turbo, larger inter-cooler, larger intake hose, larger inter-cooler hoses, new head, new fuel rails with larger injectors, and a higher volume fuel pump. It pulled 358 HP at the rear tires. There were no upgrades to the intake or provisions for a CAI except for larger hoses. A CAI would make little difference because the air is heated by the turbo. The inter-cooler is what cools the air back down.

On a N/A engine a CAI will make a huge difference because there is nothing to super heat the air before it goes into the intake. Any forced induction engine will heat the air and negate a CAI and that is why the inter-cooler is so important.

My R56 is about to go out of warranty in the next 6 months. So far, I am looking at a larger inter-cooler and the down-pipe as the best bang for the buck. I would like to add enough power to get it up to about 250 HP with some suspension mods. Any suggestions are welcomed but as I see it a CAI on a turbo engine is slightly more useful than wrapping the fuel lines with magnets to get more out of an engine.

 

did they up size the mass flow with the bigger intake hose ?

well you have to remember OEM is always going to protect the intake on any car.

 

I've always looked at a cai on a turbo car as a way to pull MORE air into the turbo. If it made no performance difference than why would ALL of the tuners require a CAI to run a stage 2 tune?

 

Fives tang!
To have you spend more money!
I have the stock intake hose with a cone
Filter! Catless DP ! And larger FMIC . I may do s hard intake pipe
Because I believe that the rubber hose of the intake
May or does compress when taking in air!
Have not decided on tune as if yet $$$
I have come from the Audi World and
The intake hose compresses to almost closing while taking in air
Cai does not take in cold air living in Florida!

 

Actually some tuners steer clear of cai's as they tend to allow too much air and cause boost creep / spike. With Subarus, sometimes this can't be mitigated with tuning, and wastegate porting is the only way to resolve it. I find that drop in panels are the best bang for the buck as intakes go.

 

Boost creep/ spike points to an insufficient control system and or lag in the control system. I have always gone with free flowing intakes on turbo cars including (briefly) an open turbo inlet (for testing on another car).

I currently have the DOS and greatly recommend it.

Sent from my Nexus using NAMotoring

 

Might Car Mods tested this on turbo and naturally aspirated engines. you wont really find power gains that are substantial, but there is a desired noise effect and you will most likely have a lower intake temp. but it will not add power. That being said i have a DOS CAI because i wanna hear the sound of the turbo more. i noticed a drop in my intake temp but no real power difference.