DiD,

This is a great question for newcomers and Miniacs alike. After many many mods and literally $1000s spent, in the end what do we have to show for it or what can we do that we could not do before all those mods? For regular street driving and commuting-not much more. Sure you can be a little louder and enjoy the experience of driving your MINI more but is it worth the cost? It all boils down to your wants and needs. What do you enjoy?

Can a person do just fine with a stock MC or MCS? Surely. And the majority of owners do just that. Is it fun to own and drive stock? Yes. Can you race in stock version? Yes.

So why mod rather than would you mod? Because the MINI is one of most highly tunable cars out there. Not the cheapest but certainly fun to do and lots of support from this site. IF you feel that you enjoy doing the upgrades and then trying them out and using them when appropriate then great, while for others it just isn't gonna work for them and the money is best spent somewhere else. Also the MINI once modded can be done up just the way you want and few exact copies are to be found even in the biggest of MINI clubs.

>>A friend and I were talking about various mods we had done to our MINIs and how really, to do it all over again, we'd do it a lot differently (almost to the point of not modding at all).

Anyone that has done modding will have some successes and some less than good results.

>>Exhaust: neither one of use would have spent the money on an exhaust again. $700 could easily have gone somewhere else and the power increase was very incrimental.

The biggest factor about exhaust is the noise and living with it. Some like loud exhaust and others would prefer just a bit more than stock but some power added. Exhausts with less loudness:
UUC-higher price and moderately good HP and torque gains.
Milltek (new 3 piece) or Alta Sport-mid range price less loudness than UUC but a little less power gain.
Borla Street- can be found discounted, quiet, some power gain.

>>Springs: I'm considering going back to stock, because I'm growing increasingly tired of scraping coming out of driveways.
I have springs and don't scrape but for me the ride is much stiffer and bumpy. My wife doesn't care for it at all. Very good on smooth roads and with fast cornering. For me the harsh ride all the time is the biggest question to ask yourself.

>>Koni/Camber Plates: my friend was saying that the Konis were very stiff and uncomfortable for street use (he also raced STX) and that there is a clunk sometimes from the camber plates.
I don't have any of those things and would recommend it for the serious autocross/track racer.

>>Things we'd consider doing again:
>>
>>intake: incrimental power or not, the change in sound is pleasant enough.
>>Pulley: for the money, there is no better way to boost power on the S. (my friend didn't have the pulley in his car).
>>wheels and tires: lighter wheels and getting rid of the run-flats help performance and comfort.

Intake is easy enough whether a drop in filter or aftermarket airbox (pilo is pretty reasonable).
Pulley is the best bang per buck but needs a good mechanic to do the install and is a major modification of the engine hence would risk engine warranty in some dealer's eyes. Not all of us live in a place that have experienced MINI tuners. And some of us have only access to one dealer. You'd have to weigh your risk.
Upgraded lightweight non runflat rims and tires- very helpful and improves handling, performance and ride quality.
Prices range from less than $1000 to over $2500.

>>So what was our conclusion? That modding is a waste of time? No, more that MINI got the package pretty nailed in stock form.

I think that the stock MINIs are quite good. Some improvements can be gotten but you have to be willing to accept the good and the bad. And to fully appreciate the improvements you have to drive the MINI on a closed course like on the track whether at driving school or at autocross races. If you are mainly doing just street driving then it isn't really worth all that cost.

Would I mod if I had to do it all over again? I'd wait longer and I'd be inclined to do the lighter wheels in 16" and basic airbox intake.

Appearance mods are a completely different topic. If you like how it looks or it gives you some added function-storage, safety, comfort, more lights or audio/video system then great.

_________________
ALOHA

 

thanks for all your responses. I'm not sure when I'm finally going to be able to put my order in, but I'm collecting as much data as possible. After seeing the SEMA pix, it looks lik it would be great to mod into something like that... but I have to agree that they did well right out the box.

 

I could not disagree more! I was one of the people who originally thought an exhaust was not necessary. At first I wanted the stealth look - intake, pulley, ECU - all under the hood. Lots of power and no one would have a clue from the exterior. After I got the intake and pulley it wasn't that important any more (the stealth thing). And then I started thinking about all the extra air I was cramming in there without helping out on the exiting end. The more I talked to people about it, the more important I felt it was to fully let the MINI breathe.

I finally gave in and ordered what I thought was the right exhaust. I got the UUC. Ever since I actually think it is my BEST mod. I can't wait - more than ever - to get back into my MCS and hear the exhaust. Not only that - with the awesome torque gains it gives, the power difference is very, VERY noticeable. But even if the gains weren't great, the sound is a constant reminder of the mod I added. It makes my MCS unique.

 

I think two important factors get lost sometimes in all the discussion about performance modifications:

1) The MINI is a damn fine package already.
2) No gains come for free.

You really can't do too much to "maximize" performance, without seeing ramifications in other areas. As you (minihune) point out, springs and adjustable shocks help in hard cornering on smooth roads/tracks, but they also have a negative impact on ride comfort during daily driving. An exhaust may add some additional power and change the sound a bit in the cabin, but whether or not that is a good thing really depends on the ears of the driver and passengers. Would you really want to do a cross-country road trip with the Magnaflow?

It's all a matter of priorities and compromises.

Dave

 

>>I think two important factors get lost sometimes in all the discussion about performance modifications:
>>
>>1) The MINI is a damn fine package already.
>>2) No gains come for free.

1. Agreed- and so we don't forget, it's always a neat thing to take out a stock MC or MCS for a test drive now and then.
2. How about when I don't get a gain- are those free? Money back guarantee? I wish. Choose wisely folks.

>>You really can't do too much to "maximize" performance, without seeing ramifications in other areas. ... Would you really want to do a cross-country road trip with the Magnaflow?

What if I put a bored out potato in that Magnaflow? Nevermind. I don't need dinner yet. The other point is that once the big gains (Pulley/ECU) have been made the rest of the mods are very costly and hardly noticible (polished cylinder heads, schrick cam, re-bored throttlebody).

>>It's all a matter of priorities and compromises.

Compromises- exactly. And that is the dilemma of the MINI designers. All those features and ease of production within the limits of the target budget. Makes you appreciate what they did. The auto world would be alot duller without the MINI.

 

peace D' i like your post. no b.s. and you always do what you want which is the way you want your car to be. i have watched your progress on your mini and i think i can say i feel the same way on much i have done on my mini. no H.K. sound system so i like the sound of intake not exhaust. i put the pulley on 15% and bmp intake. sound is as good as mad max and it is what i wanted in a supercharged car. i also put a tower brace in front fron bmp and i'm sure this has made the front end much more stable and able to handle the road presures. i drive long distances out in a rural area and need some type of run flats just to get to a safe place to get the car and myself safe. i think the only other item i would like to mod to is ecu upgrade. i think that the car has more to offer than bmw put in it and i too have been waiting to get the best ecu for the car and the money. i have had the car a year now and can say that it is still so much fun to drive and the affordability has been one of the best parts of the ownership. wish i had more time to just drive.

 

I'm going to throw a counterpoint into Dave's spring philosophy:
I am a huge H-Sport spring proponent; I think this is the only spring set on the market where the company actually did their homework on optimal tuning. The springs are progressive, so they ride softer than the annoyingly bouncy stock SS+ springs. The rear spring rates are generally higher, helping to balance the car's factory understeer. The ride height is absolutely perfect, not the "lift-kit" look of the SS+ springs, and not slammed looking like other aftermarket springs. If there is one compromise, it's actual ground clearance; which is not actually a compromise for me. Dave, learn to pull into steep driveways on an angle!

This topic is hugely appropriate to me, since I have the chance to do it all over again. Since the MINI is a little go-kart, I don't expect Lexus carpet-ride, I expect huge lateral grip and excellent chassis responsiveness and feedback. With the H-Sport Competition sway-bar set, I feel this takes the stock SS+ up two notches in terms of chassis predictability and puts the MINI into my ideals of what the MINI should be dynamically. Not just the rear bar, both bars.

I also feel the pulley, ECU and intake are must haves for me. The added sonic aura of the Intake is bliss, and only noticeable when you push the gas pedal hard. The pulley and ECU give dramatic power and torque improvements, as well as smooth engine responses and sharpen reflexes. The best part is the car is able to pull out of corners, enormously improving Motoring satisfaction.

Summary - what I did:
H-Sport springs, 15% pulley, Evotech ECU, Madness intake

Summary - what I'm doing/have done again
H-Sport springs, Comp sway-bar set, adj. control arms, 15% pulley, Webb/Powerchips ECU, ALTA intake, lightweight wheels/stickier tires

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I agree with Ryan. I am also a great Hsport proponent. The springs are the one thing I would definitely do again. Ditching the runflats are the other thing on the definite list. Pulley, exhaust and CAI...I would probably do again.
I haven't done it yet but I am seriously considering doing the ECU. I think modding Mini's is kind of like eating peanuts....You can't eat just one

 

Ryephile,

When you mention you're a huge Hsport spring fan, you mention it is for performance. I'm unclear about your opinion of what the effect is on comfort during regular street commute. I'm interested in what you have to say about that--do you notice a stiffer or bouncier ride just around town? you kind of indicated that maybe the commute type drive was MORE comfortable with H sport springs, but then again you kind of said you don't care as much about comfort as performance-did I get that right?

one other thing about Hsport or any other spring...I have read that adding aftermarket springs really shortens the life of my stock springs--and that if I add springs, I'd better be saving for new shocks soon....True or False? I'm an everyday driver, who just loves to drive...

 

I've viewed many posts over the last year and have done just 3 mods. 1st an intake (mini madness with acceptable performance gains). 2nd Quicksilver with modest (perhaps imagined gains and since removed due to unacceptable vibration problems). 3rd done last weekend the WebbPowerchip ECU and without a doubt the best money spent. My wife even notices and we're both old farts (55). The hesitation is gone and it "pulls" when I used to "wait" to accel. I liked it before but now it's great!

 

--->jmoser: The H-Sport springs are more comfortable around town on all but the biggest road undulations, versus the stock SS+ springs. I've installed them on a few friends MINI's, and both have commented days later on how the car rides better, yet handles better - best of both worlds. I can't say about the life-span of the shocks; the H-Sport springs include new bumpstops to optimize the suspension travel with the lowered ride height, yet avoid bottoming out the shock (bottoming out shock = bad!). The new bumpstops are firmer yet shorter, so hitting the bumpstops is more progressive than the stock bumpstops. I can imagine that lowering springs would only cause a reduced lifespan of the shocks if NO bumpstops were installed, or if your roads are so horrible that you're constantly bottoming out the shocks (in which case, the stock springs will not help much!). Also keep in mind the progressive-rates of the H-Sports will resist bottoming the shock more often than the stock SS+ linear-rate springs, since they get firmer as they compress.

and now back to our regularly scheduled thread
Cheers,
Ryan

 

thanks two dogs did you put the pulley in. or just ecu. how will you update and do you get to put something in your lap top to do all updates. how long did it take randy to install ecu. i feel young we are only 53

 

Powerchip sent me the software to install on my laptop and a cable to connect to the serial and printer ports. I then made a copy of my original ECU program and emailed it to Powerchip. They modified it to Randy's program and emailed it back (the turn around was less than a hour). I then uploaded it and reprogramed my ECU. The entire process took an hour and a half. If there are any updates I'll need to get the cables again (I returned those to Powerchip).

 

Cuny, sorry I forgot to mention that I do not have the pulley. I'm sure that would make Myt Mini even better but the warranty issue has me reluctant.

 

I've had my MCS for 10 months and 13,000 miles and every mod I've done I would do again. I drove it for 4 months before the first mod, brake pads for less dust. Once I had a ride in a modded MCS the fun began. I've done each mod 1 at a time to spread out the fun and cost. For a daily commuter car the non-runflat tires should be the first change, better ride and grip. The best bang for the buck is the pully. I did the H-Sport springs and lower arms mostly for looks but that also improved the ride. All totaled I have just under $1900 spent with me doing all of the installs myself. Long term plans are for 17" wheels and tires and ECU. The exhaust seems too expensive for me but who knows, maybe sometime down the road. All I can say is each change has made a great car even better.
Dan

 

I find it interesting that the big gains claimed by certain tuners for the cat-back exhaust systems they sell, cannot be backed up by customers' results.

 

Definately would do the pulley and 22mm rear bar again. $600 very well spent. I have Alta Intake but the impact is not that great. I think the ECU will also be money very wells pent as the yoyo, stumble and off throttle spin down issues are irritating. However, that is a lot less import than the $600 impact. Everyone should to pulley and swaybar.

 

SteveS,

I would totally agree. That's the best $600 to be spent on a Cooper S.

Dave

 

I think you guys need to have to drive a stock Cooper S for a week or so, and you will change your minds. You've gotten used to the added performance and forgot how docile a stock Cooper S really is. I drive our Blue car, and I can't imagine having less power.

I think by mid year 300 HP Minis will be running the streets.

 

I've always been under the impression that the only real reason to change the springs is for that lowered look. (and bottoming out on everything)

As for the other mods.. I definately would do the pulley again... hands down, the best mod out there.

Intake... I got the typhoon intake and while I really didn't notice huge gains, I did notice small gains. (As well as better mpg)

Exhaust and/or ECU is next on the list and I'm really not expecting huge gains but I would like a little more. Also from what I understand exhausts are a better mod if you've already done the intake (and pulley?) Also I am very interested in seeing what Helix does with the GIAC chip tuning as I've always been impressed by Eric's no-bs attitude. He is very honest about what he sees that works and what doesn't.

After the ECU/exhaust I plan on doing the following: (in no particular order)
Swaybar
upgraded brakes (probably Helix stage 1 kit)
Short shifter
Maybe the throttle body (once I've done everything and get the bug to work on my car again )
And new wheels/tires once the stock ones need to be replaced.

I think a lot of what I do has more to do with me "playing" with my car than trying to squeeze more power out of it. At first I thought it would be really hard to work on the engine in the MINI (as it is quite small and seems shoe-horned in there) but I've been mostly pleasantly suprised. I'm also learning a lot as I go about how my car works.

The only person to touch my car since I've gotten it besides myself was Eric to do the pulley install. (Just a little beyond my ability)

 

Rye is right, the H-sports are worth every bit. They don't bottom, the ride with SSR's is waaaaay better than stock(dealer, other owners, service people ALWAYS comment favorably). Progressive rate makes handling truly phenomenal. I put them on for the handling, not the look. Dump runcraps/S-heavies, I have madness bar, but lots of others out there now. Header (Milltek) is underrated, I think. I have JCW, so I won't belabor the value argument(see countless other threads pro/con). I haven't touched brakes, I don't use'em

 

My only perfomance mods are the BMP intake, which I thought was great value for the improved responsiveness and cool sound, and the 15% pulley that Randy put on for me in Phoenix 2 weekends ago. That, I wish I had done a year ago, except that then I wouldn't appreciate it the way I do now. I'd do the pulley again in a heartbeat, and the intake almost as fast.

 

Hell yeah!
I did the Alta pulley and Powerchip/Webb ECU and Denso IK22 plugs, coilpack, Nology wires at the Phoenix party. Already had the Rogue/Madness intake and the Magnaflow exhaust.
I'd do it all again except now I'd like to replace the Rogue/Madness with the Alta intake! Smooth, smooth, fast, fast, and gorgeous sounds!

 

Everyone seems to universally praise the 15% pulley mod.
Has anyone found any long term detremental problems sprouting up as a resilt of running a different SC pulley ratio than the factory ECU is mapped for?

I get my MCS very soon (or so they keep telling me) and I'm very tempted to do the 15% pulley after my first 5k-10k miles.

I can't really say why but the notion of a 200hp seems perfect to me. Something about that nice round number I like. sort of like decising to get the 1.8GHz or the 2GHz machine. The 2GHz just sounds better to me. This along with the fact that my first test drive of an MCS yielded what felt almost identical to the 0-60 performance that I got from my 2001 Miata (just sold). I'm not really trading up in performancevery much with a stock MCS. But at 200hp, I'm imagining that the MINI feels a whole lot better.

I won't be doing exhaust stuff most likely. I don't care about the sound as much as I do bang for the buck.

Should I just wait until Dinan releases their offerings? That sounds like a great thing.

 

>>
>>One thing my friend pointed out was that the national times for MINIs in STX really weren't all that much faster than those in the stock class.
>>

But what you have to remember is that the stock class cars were on R compound tires, and the STX cars have to run on Street Tires. R compound tires alone are typically worth 2 seconds on a 60 second course. So the fact that the STX cars were faster, on street tires, shows how much can be done to the MINI. Also remember the STX cars can't run a pulley, the boost has to remain stock.

Something no one has really mentioned is a LSD, which most if not all of the competitive STX cars at nationals had. Very important to get the power down.

One other thing, why a big brake kit? If you aren't doing track events (not autocrosses, but regular track events) a big brake kit won't improve stopping performance at all. Actually, the extra weight might reduce performance. So it must just be a cosmetic thing.

Ryephile, I'd like to discuss your swaybar thoughts, because I'm about to do the H sport springs and I was going to just go with the rear bar.