yep!

250bhp is very possible on a r56 but 250 whp is still a dream.

 

I'm new to the MINI scene, but with having a JCW making 208hp stock, and seeing ALL the different things that can free up hp before even getting a chip. Not gonna say it will make 250hp, but there's definitely room for improvement over stock.

The intercooler itself, and placement, the the turbo piping, the intake, the DP and exhaust, probably the exhaust manifold. I hear the JCS heads are a bit more massaged the the S? There's also heat treating a few things like ceramic coating. And then throw a tune on it to just loosen it up from the factory emissions grip, I don't see how 250hp isn't achievable.

And yes, the MINI is about handling, I totally agree, but a happy median needs to be established IMO. That's why I haven't bought one until the new style's turbo motor came out. Fell in love with that torque!

 

Like I said it is very possible. The problem here people that if you throw an intake, dp, exhaust, and a tune you shouls be running 300 to the wheels. They don't understand that you have to stop working about bolt ons. PnP the valve train and the TB. Work on using lower compression pistons and cryotreated parts. Figure out how to safely up the boost. There is all kinds of things you can do. People have started switching out the turbo. Look at how other cars make their power and apply it to the MINI (ie EVO and STI) also look at BMWs to see what they are doing. There is an endless amount of ways to crank out the power in this car. No one has even began to crack the potentional in this motor yet, well that is at least posting here.

 

Yer right Porthos, there's a lot of ways... but I was only talking about the things that are constricting the motor right now that the factory has put on for whatever reason. Replacing those parts just to make things flow the way they're supposed can reap huge gains.

 

No that the thing is they won't net you any real large gains. An intake is only going to give in the range of maybe 5hp if your lucky. An exhaust is only going to net about the sme. If you want 250+ you are going to have to not concentrate on bolt-ons. I'm sorry it just isn't going to happen.

 

There's really not a lot of gains to be had from the current crop of bolt-ons .. the engine is very efficient in it's stock form with most of the power to be unlocked coming from changes in mapping and a better intercooler to keep the charge cool enough for higher boost levels.
Wait for tuning to mature and become more readily available and we should see some real power products (like a camshaft) come to market. You could buy every bolt-on currently available and you'd only see a few hp gain (without a tune) and even with a tune, you're going to be running pretty similar numbers to a stock car.

 

You guys kidding? Have you seen the piping for the turbo? All the bottle necks, and the most obvious intercooler muffler? I've never even heard of an intercooler muffler until these cars. Anyone who's been around a turbo car knows that cleaning up the air passage's will ALWAYS reap gains over stock. Maybe not so much peak HP as far as the boost is concerned, cause it's governed by the wastegate, but air flow efficiency and lower temperature will always make power, efficiency, and driveability.

But you ARE right in the way as to reap the FULL gains of those changes is only by tuning. But like some have said... these are MINI's, not drag cars. 300hp at the wheel of this car is beyond a goal for me. There's to many other things such as suspension and and what not to accomodate a motor like that.

Put it this way, I just about handed a 2010 Camaro SS @$$ to him. The only place he had me was in open straight highway, and even then he wasn't pulling away from me like I was expecting him too. As long as I can make some HP to easily outrun something like that, I'm good. Cause really... who would expect a MINI to hang with a modern muscle car? (he he) Twisties... heh... he didn't have a chance.

 

nope, not joking, been to our local dyno days as well as buying/installing/removing all sorts of mods for myself & other locals. Those "bottlenecks" really aren't much of a factor.

 

n1tro knows what he's talking about I'm sure and works on turbo cars all day long...(he's a subie tech)

And believe it or not...changing out all the boost tubes and intercooler piping really does not do a whole lot on these cars. He's right that, once tuned...a tuned car with all stock parts, makes nearly as much as a car that has all the tubing junk changed out on it.

Tune, IC, Turboback are really the 3 mods that do the most...and honestly once you get those three, its really unnecessary to change out all that other crap, it will have very little to no effect on your numbers. Certainly not worth the almost $300 you're going to spend on that crap. But.......its your money so waste it however you see fit! I know where that $300 is going towards instead of boost tubes on my car.... RMW meth kit.

 

x2

 

a water/meth kit is a great idea. I can't remeber where I read this but if take one of those and start advancing the timing and make sure that the kit is spraying to keep up that the skys the limit. I have heard of 50+hp gains. But alas I don't remeber where I read this it was like a year or 2 ago.

 

N1tro, you are so right.

I have more than 15 track days on the car so far and have tried to see what these performance enhancements can do in an outside enviroment. Frankly, before I got rid of it, the boost stuff does not seem to do anything noticeable. The only thing that seems to work is the Helix intercooler, about 2-3 mph at the braking zone before the bus stop at wgi.

You wonder when there are dyno results that show lots of HP gains but no one has 0-60 mph results or some other tangible real world measures. If you gain 62 hp in a Mini w/o a tune, you should be able to do 0-60 mph in the low 5 sec range (from around 6.6 sec).

 

That's just crazy. I'm not calling anyone a liar, cause I wouldn't know with these cars, but I guess I'd just have to see it. I'm learning about these MINI's as a go.

Since it sounds like I'm talking to the people with experience: has anyone ever compared a tuned stock car w/ a tuned car with upgraded turbo piping?

 

yup, really no difference, check out the RMW threads.
Before I worked on Subies, I worked on turbocharged SAAB's, and before that Porsche motorsports (many turbo racecars). The Mini is running a whole new generation of hardware/software from past turbo cars and those old tricks just don't work. There's really a much bigger difference in performance between production dates than you'll find between mods/no-mods.

 

Stupid 2008 ecu, Dammmm you MINI!!!!!

 

N1tro, that's an explosive comment. So if I understand you correctly, all the stuff from aftermarket vendors is so much nonsense compared to a good tune ( from RMW, for example, or whoever).

Issue is, would a tuned car with aftermarket goodies crank out more HP/torque that a tuned stock car? Aye, there's the rub.

 

That was the second question I asked. Aftermarket companies are claiming gains with those mods, so they are big claims. Again, I wouldn't know. Soon enough I will though.

 

Most of the aftermarket companies (with the exception of Alta) have actually been avoiding posting any numbers or dyno charts. I know from one of our dyno days here, my full Alta turbo-back and Alta highflow filter left me with 10+hp/10+ft/lbs less power than another members stock car w/ only a Militek cat-back and WAY less than what I had expected based on their dyno charts.
If you dig around for threads where people have actually gone on a dyno, you'll see much of the same. Any parts that really are an improvement over stock are going to show some sort of gain and you'll get more with a tune, just try & set some realistic expectations. Things like camshafts make power, shiny bling and open (hot air) intakes are strictly for your amusement.

 

N1tr0 I am thinking that if you put your stock air intake back on you will regain most of the 10 + 10 back. I have always felt that I lost power with an open filter. Thats why I sold my Alta and am on my 4th intake. I finally found a sealed box that works great.

Slap it back on and see if you thin that it feels faster....

 

Are there any programmers out there for the MINI, or are they all just pre-tuned chips?

I'm only for functionality before form. I'll sacrifice some form for function. I haven't found an intake I like until I saw the M7 that can actually utilize the hood scoop that is now a non functional item on the Cooper S's. Was disapponted when I heard that. Has anyone tried the M7?

 

I only had the Alta panel filter at the time, I did pick up 2hp when I took it out, that's why I went with the OEM jcw stage 1 airbox and the dry paper filter. The intakes really don't have much of an impact on performance, but it's hard to just leave stuff alone

There was a motoringfile ? article back around the original R56 release that talked with one of the engineers. His take was that most of the gains to be had would be from a better intercooler, and from RMW's tuning roadshow, that's been largely proven true.

 

Never thought I'd wanna get an intercooler before a CAI, lol.

 

I don't have M7 ags-r but I have DDMWorks race intake which is basically the same idea... Just a fully closed system... To my knowledge m doesn't contact the hood to close it off completely and it gets rid of the stock air hose so heat soak could be worse with that design since it is right above the turbo... And ud need a more aggressive scoop to utilize the incoming air better... DDMWorks keeps the bottom of the stock airbox AND a ram air that connects to the bonnet and seals to the box when u close the bonnet. The upside of that is two ambient air intakes and if the hoodscoop gets hot from turbo u still have a second intake to help keep cool air in... Anyway mine works very well, I'm happy with it.

 

But rather than sealing it against the hood, the M7 comes with the Ram Scoop/Vortex, which is what caugt my eye. Sealing it from everything underhood and only being exposed via the factory ram air from the hood. And as far as heat soak is concerned for under hood temps, you can also get their heat shield keeping the underside of that Ram Scoop cooler.

I don't know which one works better, but I like the idea of using the factory hood scoop if it's going to be there.

 

you might want to browse through this forum:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...train-cooper-s