Drivetrain Small trick to get a lot more power
Really though maybe its because this is the "newest" trick in the book, or that someone went to far and threw a CEL after already having modifications. Maybe people are still thinnking inside the 'Mini' box where a turbo is a new game to them. Turning up the boost by adjusting the wastegate via physical, mechanical, or electronic means is the oldest simplest power modification in the turbo book. Theres nothing new here people; its just new for Minis.
Have fun with your stock mini while it lasts....
I'll wait till there is real "thinking outside the MINI box" and tuning going on.....not someone turning a wastegate screw.
You think you're some expert because you did this, lol. If it was really that simple and effective, this would have been thought of when the very first 07 came off the lot. Alta for example, whether you love them or hate them has plenty of turbo knowledge and experience working with Subaru's over the years...you don't see people like them saying to go do this.
Last edited by ThumperMCS; Mar 24, 2009 at 09:56 AM.
Please yourself, but I guarantee you're not talking to some snot-nosed punk that just got finished watching Fast and the Furious II. You may be lucky and not actually be inducing creep, but the potential is much more likely because you are reducing the flow rate of the wastegate. Close the valve too much and you'll be reliving those moments from your n00b RX-7 days. The fact you've done this "mod" at all without any knowledge of engine operation is rather embarassing on your part. Let's see an OBDII MAP, MAF, Ign, and WBO2 plot to back up your "experienced" claims and then you'll get props for not being a hack.
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
Please yourself, but I guarantee you're not talking to some snot-nosed punk that just got finished watching Fast and the Furious II. You may be lucky and not actually be inducing creep, but the potential is much more likely because you are reducing the flow rate of the wastegate. Close the valve too much and you'll be reliving those moments from your n00b RX-7 days. The fact you've done this "mod" at all without any knowledge of engine operation is rather embarassing on your part. Let's see an OBDII MAP, MAF, Ign, and WBO2 plot to back up your "experienced" claims and then you'll get props for not being a hack.
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
Please yourself, but I guarantee you're not talking to some snot-nosed punk that just got finished watching Fast and the Furious II. You may be lucky and not actually be inducing creep, but the potential is much more likely because you are reducing the flow rate of the wastegate. Close the valve too much and you'll be reliving those moments from your n00b RX-7 days. The fact you've done this "mod" at all without any knowledge of engine operation is rather embarassing on your part. Let's see an OBDII MAP, MAF, Ign, and WBO2 plot to back up your "experienced" claims and then you'll get props for not being a hack.
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
LOL, that's a good joke. "Add 20HP without needing more fuel, story at 11!"
I suppose that was a bit rude, but "he started it". 
Seriously though, this idea might work as long as you don't go and tighten it up as much as you can. I have no data here but speculating something in the realm of a few turns shorter would be the maximum I'd start with while checking the results with a datalogger. Remember that your MCS's boost will vary depending on ECU firmware revision [or model year], hard parts used, and of course if you have the JCW kit or not.
In Overboost; a stock '07 should see about 14.5PSIg and a stock '08 should see about 11.5PSIg. [yes the difference is that big since the "new" firmware]. Based on my calculations, using 93 octane, this engine should not be run with any more than 20PSIg at this time, and doing so on the stock turbo means much higher IAT's, so be prepared to invest in a better intercooler.
Seriously though, this idea might work as long as you don't go and tighten it up as much as you can. I have no data here but speculating something in the realm of a few turns shorter would be the maximum I'd start with while checking the results with a datalogger. Remember that your MCS's boost will vary depending on ECU firmware revision [or model year], hard parts used, and of course if you have the JCW kit or not.
In Overboost; a stock '07 should see about 14.5PSIg and a stock '08 should see about 11.5PSIg. [yes the difference is that big since the "new" firmware]. Based on my calculations, using 93 octane, this engine should not be run with any more than 20PSIg at this time, and doing so on the stock turbo means much higher IAT's, so be prepared to invest in a better intercooler.
+1 Would love to see your "datalogs"
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From: Alba
If you have a gt28rs coming soon then why are you bothered about 2-3 psi ?
And according to another limited poster its only good on 'standard' cars and MiniPolack has proven it doesnt work on modified cars - Yet you say you have all the alta stuff, intercooler etc etc and you have turned the screw on wastegate.... BS anyone ? 
When Ryephile asked if anyone has the data to back up their claims he didnt mean someone saying they did, he meant actual proof BUT no doubt like the recent post about a guy who had just put a gt28rs turbo on his car, remapped it and then taken it off (ALL WITHOUT DYNO PRINTS OR ANY DATA) Hmmmmm....PS - Thumpermcs, Ryephile - Cheers! You guys made this thread worthwile
Last edited by coopman7; Mar 25, 2009 at 08:12 AM.
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Ive come from alot of other turbo cars and you will be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find someone in the know on any other forum telling people to adjust screws on their actuator.. I think you may be thinking of a mechanical boost controller (which in itself isnt accurate and can cause boost creep) so turning a screw on the actuator itself is even less efficient.. No matter which way you look at it your inducing boost creep
I get 19psi on my car and thats tuned and safe..
Boost creep isnt standard on turbo cars unless you start playing with them like you are. Boost creep = poor setup..
I get 19psi on my car and thats tuned and safe..
Boost creep isnt standard on turbo cars unless you start playing with them like you are. Boost creep = poor setup..
people have been making and selling adjustable wastegates for these cars since the 1980s. this trick is apparently older than you. if you dont understand what is going on please do not misinform other forum members by acting like you do.
Yes, the trick is old, i have been using that on my 90 Mazda MX6.....but what is the main difference between old school turbo cars and our minis????..its a very simple answer...PCM, ECU or everybody's popular main Computer. Todays cars have very sophisticated ECUs which dont only rely on only one sensor to tell them something unpredictable is going on ( human tuning ). It was easy back in the days to fool the ECU into thinking that everything is ok with boost, install aftermarket boost dependent fuel pressure regulator to accommodate extra fuel for extra boost, give it a little more retard on the timing , change spark plugs to a colder range to steer away from detonation signs, etc, etc, ....and voila.....in our minis case, i rather leave it to a tuned or re-written software, since again, it obviously doesnt work on my 08 mini :(
Last edited by MiniPOLACK; Mar 25, 2009 at 04:19 PM.
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Yes, the trick is old, i have been using that on my 90 Mazda MX6.....but what is the main difference between old school turbo cars and our minis????..its a very simple answer...PCM, ECU or everybodys popular main Computer. Todays cars have very sophisticated ECUs which dont only rely on only one sensor to tell them something unpredictable is going on ( human tuning ). It was eay back in the days to fool the ECU into thinking that everything is ok with boost, install aftermarket boost dependent fuel pressure regualator to accomodate extra fuel for extra boost, give it a little more retard on the timing , change spark plugs to a colder range to steer away from detonation signs, etc, etc, ....and voila.....in our minis case, i rather leave it to a tuned or re-written software, since again, it obviously doesnt work on my 08 mini :(
think about it, you can run 87 octane in your car if you have to and the ECM will drop power significantly! once you put some good gas in it and it tests the waters by bringing boost and timing levels back to normal the power is bad.
with that said, adjusting the wg rod... well you have some stuff done to your car already, the extra few psi might have set the "oh ****!!" section of the ECM off.
by the way, did you ever get your second set of dyno numbers?
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Alba
Unfortunately the 80s has nothing to do with these minis. So please dont come on this forum talking complete nonsense about something you clearly know nothing about, time wasting
Dont quote me out of context again. And i will repeat my point from my what you quoted from me, if your coming on this thread to advise people to simply turn a screw X amount of times with no data to back up claims of extra power and safety then the smart people can see right through you.
Its funny how everytime we ask for data logging etc and start asking for proof of this 'tweak' working, you dont get any, the person dissapears and instead you get a bunch of no postees showing up all of a sudden and starting another load of garbage.. No data..
'this mod works on 1970s cars' ' this mod works on 1980s cars'
Keep them coming, please!Mini state the minimum permissible grade of fuel to be used in the car is number 91 RON. If you dont understand what is going on please do not misinform other forum members by acting like you do.
Last edited by coopman7; Mar 27, 2009 at 05:14 AM.
nope :(..were having a software issue here. im patiently waiting for the independent dyno date , hopefully this sunday. we will try to determine what exactly is going on. basically so far, my car either misfires or is trying to detonate at 6k-up ....i dont have any gauges to monitor the situation at these rpms. hopefully once we find out whats going on , on the dyno i will have the software tuner with me on premises and he will make necessary changes to fix this pesky bug. But as far as driveability is concerned, extra power is indeed noticeable. Turbo spools nice and hard up to the misfire issue. It doesnt drop off like it used to with stock software. ill keep you guys informed as soon as i get this fixed.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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These cars were released in 2007
Unfortunately the 80s has sweet FA to do with these minis. So please dont come on this forum talking complete nonsense about something you clearly know nothing about you silly little time waster
Your a 7 post legend Dont quote me out of context again. And i will repeat my point from my what you quoted from me, if your coming on this thread to advise people to simply turn a screw X amount of times with no data to back up claims of extra power and safety YOUR AN IDIOT..
Its funny how everytime we ask for data logging etc and start asking for proof of this 'tweak' working, you dont get any, the person dissapears and instead you get a bunch of no post heroes showing up all of a sudden and starting another load of garbage.. AGAIN nothing but BS dripping out their mouths and AGAIN NO DATA
AND AGAIN all we hear 'this mod works on 1970s cars' ' this mod works on 1980s cars' I dont doubt that but like everyone with sense keeps asking where is the proof ? Keep them coming, please!
Unfortunately the 80s has sweet FA to do with these minis. So please dont come on this forum talking complete nonsense about something you clearly know nothing about you silly little time waster
Your a 7 post legend
Dont quote me out of context again. And i will repeat my point from my what you quoted from me, if your coming on this thread to advise people to simply turn a screw X amount of times with no data to back up claims of extra power and safety YOUR AN IDIOT..Its funny how everytime we ask for data logging etc and start asking for proof of this 'tweak' working, you dont get any, the person dissapears and instead you get a bunch of no post heroes showing up all of a sudden and starting another load of garbage.. AGAIN nothing but BS dripping out their mouths and AGAIN NO DATA
AND AGAIN all we hear 'this mod works on 1970s cars' ' this mod works on 1980s cars'
I dont doubt that but like everyone with sense keeps asking where is the proof ? Keep them coming, please!i did not quote you out of context. so many people on here are IGNORANT of the basic fundamentals of turbo cars and how smart the ECMs of today and yesterday are. this tiny mod has absolute potential to work, the problem is running into a condition where the ECM thinks something is wrong/broken, then pulls timing / lowers boost and illuminates your MIL so you can go to the dealership and have the "problem" fixed.
all this "tuning" people charge an arm and a leg for here is doing is nearly the same thing a simple shortening of the wg actuator rod, but telling the ECM "hey buddy, its okay! dont go tell big bad BMW on us and i'll give you a blow pop! *pat pat*"
what are the stock injector flow rates? if we know the max amt of fuel that can be delivered at 80% dc then you will know what the stock ECM is capable of handling as long as the MAF can keep up.
and i'm betting that if people with a only a tune can hit 20psi safely, then the stock injectors and MAF are easily capable of handling a 2psi from shortening an actuator rod.
now, you were saying something about idiots?
off to bed you go, junior.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Alba
these are new cars. everyone is scared to try anything. you want to know if you can do this mod reliably? $35 and a trip to a dyno in your area with a wideband o2 will satisfy your quest for knowledge.
i did not quote you out of context. so many people on here are IGNORANT of the basic fundamentals of turbo cars and how smart the ECMs of today and yesterday are. this tiny mod has absolute potential to work, the problem is running into a condition where the ECM thinks something is wrong/broken, then pulls timing / lowers boost and illuminates your MIL so you can go to the dealership and have the "problem" fixed.
all this "tuning" people charge an arm and a leg for here is doing is nearly the same thing a simple shortening of the wg actuator rod, but telling the ECM "hey buddy, its okay! dont go tell big bad BMW on us and i'll give you a blow pop! *pat pat*"
what are the stock injector flow rates? if we know the max amt of fuel that can be delivered at 80% dc then you will know what the stock ECM is capable of handling as long as the MAF can keep up.
and i'm betting that if people with a only a tune can hit 20psi safely, then the stock injectors and MAF are easily capable of handling a 2psi from shortening an actuator rod.
now, you were saying something about idiots?
off to bed you go, junior.
i did not quote you out of context. so many people on here are IGNORANT of the basic fundamentals of turbo cars and how smart the ECMs of today and yesterday are. this tiny mod has absolute potential to work, the problem is running into a condition where the ECM thinks something is wrong/broken, then pulls timing / lowers boost and illuminates your MIL so you can go to the dealership and have the "problem" fixed.
all this "tuning" people charge an arm and a leg for here is doing is nearly the same thing a simple shortening of the wg actuator rod, but telling the ECM "hey buddy, its okay! dont go tell big bad BMW on us and i'll give you a blow pop! *pat pat*"
what are the stock injector flow rates? if we know the max amt of fuel that can be delivered at 80% dc then you will know what the stock ECM is capable of handling as long as the MAF can keep up.
and i'm betting that if people with a only a tune can hit 20psi safely, then the stock injectors and MAF are easily capable of handling a 2psi from shortening an actuator rod.
now, you were saying something about idiots?
off to bed you go, junior.
So YES i was saying something about idiots, thanks for proving it to me.. I dont want to do this mod.. I live in the UK and have plentiful access to different tuning options.. I just dont like idiots like you telling people to tweak stuff without making sure its safe thats all paps, dont boil your blood.
My remap last june cost me about $450
No problems and the company have done alot of testing..You should go read another book quickly, then you can come back here and act like you know all.. I bet you have 7 posts on 100 owners clubs.. Jack of all trades, master of none
I think its your bedtime that has long past grandad.. Off you go and sip your dinner down through a straw
Last edited by coopman7; Mar 25, 2009 at 04:24 PM.
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i dont have my gf's owners manual handy, however every any modern car with premimum REQUIREMENTS listed everywhere there is always a passage that states that if in an emergency, crap gas is ok to put a few gallons in until you can get to a station that carries premium, and that power will be significantly reduced until you refill.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Alba
i dont have my gf's owners manual handy, however every any modern car with premimum REQUIREMENTS listed everywhere there is always a passage that states that if in an emergency, crap gas is ok to put a few gallons in until you can get to a station that carries premium, and that power will be significantly reduced until you refill.
Do you really have a gf, i think not... Angry old man with an answer to everything
And again nothing but speculation, no facts or data..AND Mini clearly state also that you should never use any fuel below the permissible grade (number 91 octane) as if you do the engine could be damaged.. Anymore dodgy stuff from you ?
Last edited by coopman7; Mar 25, 2009 at 04:33 PM.
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i was referring to this post
The R56 car has a mass airflow sensor and also what looks like two wide band O2 sensors. The mass air sensor meters incomming air and adjusts for a predefined static fuel curve based on the outside data it recieves (airflow as a %). This alone should be enough to compensate the increased airflow by raising the boost and should automatically add enough fuel. Then the wideband O2 takes post ignition data and adjusts the fuel curves to make things more spot on acurate. High tech cars should be able to tune themselves to within about 5% of factory specifications. Beyond that a CEL may be thrown for sensors reading too high.
There are other sensors involved as well: most notably a MAP sensor which measures 'boost' pressure, and a knock sensor which measures detonation. In my experience, both of these sensors modify mainly ignition timing on a mass airflow based system. Other types of cars like the R56 in the UK use whats called a "speed density" style system which does not use a mass air meter; only the MAP sensor. Mass airflow is more day to day acurate - think emissions related - but speed density is generally easier to modify; which is why UK cars can be modded easier than US cars.
There are other sensors involved as well: most notably a MAP sensor which measures 'boost' pressure, and a knock sensor which measures detonation. In my experience, both of these sensors modify mainly ignition timing on a mass airflow based system. Other types of cars like the R56 in the UK use whats called a "speed density" style system which does not use a mass air meter; only the MAP sensor. Mass airflow is more day to day acurate - think emissions related - but speed density is generally easier to modify; which is why UK cars can be modded easier than US cars.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Alba
Youve been proved to be an idiot (read previous post) talking crap. End of, stfu.
gf - is it OAP specials night ?