Drivetrain Hybrid K03 Turbocharger
#26
02-27-2009, 12:02 PM
PS - update!
Spoke to a different company today who deal with Seat Leon Curpa's and they do a bespoke turbo for that car which he gave me the details on. It makes 375bhp (not whp) and it has a hybrid K04 turbo. With just a stock K04 turbo and all the mods possible the Leon Curpa R can achieve around 275bhp he said, so it sounds as though their hybrid turbo produces around 100bhp over standard... He said the torque was very impressive too, at around 330lb-ft from 2700rpm to 6000 ish.
He can do a similar conversion he thinks onto the K03 using the same wheels, but he said it wont spool fully till 2800rpm (will begin to boost at 2100 ish) but it will hold boost all the way till redline.
Its more expensive at around $1100 for just the turbo and then mapping on top of that... so I am considering what to do.
he can also do a "normal hybrid turbo" which will produce just over 310bhp he said and that is priced at 990$ + mapping on top of that.
But for the sake of a bit extra, I would rather the 375bhp variant!!
But it means I cant afford it quite as soon as I would have liked... maybe another 2 months wait, something along those lines.
I mentioned before that the stock injectors max out at 330bhp... so I need to do a bit more investigation here as to the validity of that statement, the cost of putting bigger injectors in (I have read that Audi S3 injectors are a straight swap.... not sure though - anyone??) and a few other things... but I will keep this thread updated as I do anything
Spoke to a different company today who deal with Seat Leon Curpa's and they do a bespoke turbo for that car which he gave me the details on. It makes 375bhp (not whp) and it has a hybrid K04 turbo. With just a stock K04 turbo and all the mods possible the Leon Curpa R can achieve around 275bhp he said, so it sounds as though their hybrid turbo produces around 100bhp over standard... He said the torque was very impressive too, at around 330lb-ft from 2700rpm to 6000 ish.
He can do a similar conversion he thinks onto the K03 using the same wheels, but he said it wont spool fully till 2800rpm (will begin to boost at 2100 ish) but it will hold boost all the way till redline.
Its more expensive at around $1100 for just the turbo and then mapping on top of that... so I am considering what to do.
he can also do a "normal hybrid turbo" which will produce just over 310bhp he said and that is priced at 990$ + mapping on top of that.
But for the sake of a bit extra, I would rather the 375bhp variant!!
But it means I cant afford it quite as soon as I would have liked... maybe another 2 months wait, something along those lines.
I mentioned before that the stock injectors max out at 330bhp... so I need to do a bit more investigation here as to the validity of that statement, the cost of putting bigger injectors in (I have read that Audi S3 injectors are a straight swap.... not sure though - anyone??) and a few other things... but I will keep this thread updated as I do anything
#29
02-27-2009, 03:26 PM
PS - update!
Spoke to a different company today who deal with Seat Leon Curpa's and they do a bespoke turbo for that car which he gave me the details on. It makes 375bhp (not whp) and it has a hybrid K04 turbo. With just a stock K04 turbo and all the mods possible the Leon Curpa R can achieve around 275bhp he said, so it sounds as though their hybrid turbo produces around 100bhp over standard... He said the torque was very impressive too, at around 330lb-ft from 2700rpm to 6000 ish.
He can do a similar conversion he thinks onto the K03 using the same wheels, but he said it wont spool fully till 2800rpm (will begin to boost at 2100 ish) but it will hold boost all the way till redline.
Its more expensive at around $1100 for just the turbo and then mapping on top of that... so I am considering what to do.
he can also do a "normal hybrid turbo" which will produce just over 310bhp he said and that is priced at 990$ + mapping on top of that.
But for the sake of a bit extra, I would rather the 375bhp variant!!
But it means I cant afford it quite as soon as I would have liked... maybe another 2 months wait, something along those lines.
I mentioned before that the stock injectors max out at 330bhp... so I need to do a bit more investigation here as to the validity of that statement, the cost of putting bigger injectors in (I have read that Audi S3 injectors are a straight swap.... not sure though - anyone??) and a few other things... but I will keep this thread updated as I do anything
Spoke to a different company today who deal with Seat Leon Curpa's and they do a bespoke turbo for that car which he gave me the details on. It makes 375bhp (not whp) and it has a hybrid K04 turbo. With just a stock K04 turbo and all the mods possible the Leon Curpa R can achieve around 275bhp he said, so it sounds as though their hybrid turbo produces around 100bhp over standard... He said the torque was very impressive too, at around 330lb-ft from 2700rpm to 6000 ish.
He can do a similar conversion he thinks onto the K03 using the same wheels, but he said it wont spool fully till 2800rpm (will begin to boost at 2100 ish) but it will hold boost all the way till redline.
Its more expensive at around $1100 for just the turbo and then mapping on top of that... so I am considering what to do.
he can also do a "normal hybrid turbo" which will produce just over 310bhp he said and that is priced at 990$ + mapping on top of that.
But for the sake of a bit extra, I would rather the 375bhp variant!!
But it means I cant afford it quite as soon as I would have liked... maybe another 2 months wait, something along those lines.
I mentioned before that the stock injectors max out at 330bhp... so I need to do a bit more investigation here as to the validity of that statement, the cost of putting bigger injectors in (I have read that Audi S3 injectors are a straight swap.... not sure though - anyone??) and a few other things... but I will keep this thread updated as I do anything
#30
02-28-2009, 06:59 AM
The numbers are impressive, but I would be reluctant to give up the early onset of boost. Stock cars have everything in by 1600 rpm, this makes for a very fast car out of the hole. Delaying the boost until 2100 rpm would sacrifice this capability. And I have to think that systems generating in excess of 300 ft. lbs. of torque would raise some serious reliabilty issues with the stock drivetrain.
I'm thinking a car with 250-275 hp and similar torque that is all in play before 1800 rpm would be the best compromise for a street-only car - plenty of grunt and high reliability and longevity It would be the ultimate "sleeper" <g>...
I'm thinking a car with 250-275 hp and similar torque that is all in play before 1800 rpm would be the best compromise for a street-only car - plenty of grunt and high reliability and longevity It would be the ultimate "sleeper" <g>...
#31
03-01-2009, 03:28 PM
5th Gear
#32
05-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Update
My K03 turbo is being picked up tomorrow by CR Turbos - who are a well known company in the UK for supplying turbo units, doing repairs and upgrades and many other things to do with Turbo'd cars. After several chats with them, they sound fairly confident that they will be able to squeeze more power out of the K03 by fitting bigger wheels. He said his intention was to do a non-standard hybrid, he wanted to go one better and if the housing would let him, he wants to fit T-28 wheels to my turbo. The T-28 turbo is capable of around 350bhp (similar to the GT28RS - just with a slightly slower spool)
He said that a common restriction on stock cars is the manifold - and although the turbo is capable of producing more power the standard manifold itself becomes the restriction - so lets hope that the R56 Cooper S manifold isnt a restriction and we can utilise all the power avilable from the turbo!
Will keep this thread updated as I progress :D
The obvious benefit of a hybrid turbo is that you dont need anything else to fit it. You remove your standard turbo, send it off, they do the work to it, you receive it back and then bolt it to your car as per original fittings. It will need to be mapped to run the turbo properly, and as they are upgrading all the thrust bearings, shaft and seals etc I should be able to run higher boost safely....
My K03 turbo is being picked up tomorrow by CR Turbos - who are a well known company in the UK for supplying turbo units, doing repairs and upgrades and many other things to do with Turbo'd cars. After several chats with them, they sound fairly confident that they will be able to squeeze more power out of the K03 by fitting bigger wheels. He said his intention was to do a non-standard hybrid, he wanted to go one better and if the housing would let him, he wants to fit T-28 wheels to my turbo. The T-28 turbo is capable of around 350bhp (similar to the GT28RS - just with a slightly slower spool)
He said that a common restriction on stock cars is the manifold - and although the turbo is capable of producing more power the standard manifold itself becomes the restriction - so lets hope that the R56 Cooper S manifold isnt a restriction and we can utilise all the power avilable from the turbo!
Will keep this thread updated as I progress :D
The obvious benefit of a hybrid turbo is that you dont need anything else to fit it. You remove your standard turbo, send it off, they do the work to it, you receive it back and then bolt it to your car as per original fittings. It will need to be mapped to run the turbo properly, and as they are upgrading all the thrust bearings, shaft and seals etc I should be able to run higher boost safely....
#33
05-06-2009, 11:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYoNBtNi7k0
Ps - this Mini has a T28 turbo - so lets hope for something as good as this!
Ps - this Mini has a T28 turbo - so lets hope for something as good as this!
#34
05-06-2009, 12:00 PM
Update
My K03 turbo is being picked up tomorrow by CR Turbos - who are a well known company in the UK for supplying turbo units, doing repairs and upgrades and many other things to do with Turbo'd cars. After several chats with them, they sound fairly confident that they will be able to squeeze more power out of the K03 by fitting bigger wheels. He said his intention was to do a non-standard hybrid, he wanted to go one better and if the housing would let him, he wants to fit T-28 wheels to my turbo. The T-28 turbo is capable of around 350bhp (similar to the GT28RS - just with a slightly slower spool)
He said that a common restriction on stock cars is the manifold - and although the turbo is capable of producing more power the standard manifold itself becomes the restriction - so lets hope that the R56 Cooper S manifold isnt a restriction and we can utilise all the power avilable from the turbo!
Will keep this thread updated as I progress :D
The obvious benefit of a hybrid turbo is that you dont need anything else to fit it. You remove your standard turbo, send it off, they do the work to it, you receive it back and then bolt it to your car as per original fittings. It will need to be mapped to run the turbo properly, and as they are upgrading all the thrust bearings, shaft and seals etc I should be able to run higher boost safely....
My K03 turbo is being picked up tomorrow by CR Turbos - who are a well known company in the UK for supplying turbo units, doing repairs and upgrades and many other things to do with Turbo'd cars. After several chats with them, they sound fairly confident that they will be able to squeeze more power out of the K03 by fitting bigger wheels. He said his intention was to do a non-standard hybrid, he wanted to go one better and if the housing would let him, he wants to fit T-28 wheels to my turbo. The T-28 turbo is capable of around 350bhp (similar to the GT28RS - just with a slightly slower spool)
He said that a common restriction on stock cars is the manifold - and although the turbo is capable of producing more power the standard manifold itself becomes the restriction - so lets hope that the R56 Cooper S manifold isnt a restriction and we can utilise all the power avilable from the turbo!
Will keep this thread updated as I progress :D
The obvious benefit of a hybrid turbo is that you dont need anything else to fit it. You remove your standard turbo, send it off, they do the work to it, you receive it back and then bolt it to your car as per original fittings. It will need to be mapped to run the turbo properly, and as they are upgrading all the thrust bearings, shaft and seals etc I should be able to run higher boost safely....
I have driven T-28 equipped Audi's...they're quick...but I felt lag was a big issue. But yours will be a hybrid so shouldn't be too bad.
And about the R56 manifold....I'm so surprised no one has touched them yet. No one ever seems to talk about them, but changing the turbo manifold is typically a very common mod in other turbo cars. From what I've seen, the R56 one looks whimpy. But I just don't know how much extra room there is to make a more robust manifold. Let us know if you decide to do something with it though!
#36
05-06-2009, 08:13 PM
so your talking about taking the wheels out of something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K04-T...Q5fAccessories
..it does seem pretty cheap.,.,just wondering how hard it'd be to do.,.,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K04-T...Q5fAccessories
..it does seem pretty cheap.,.,just wondering how hard it'd be to do.,.,
#38
05-11-2009, 03:59 AM
Update:
The company doing the hybrid have received the turbo and have just rung me with some good news.
He said that the compressor wheel on the K03 fitted to the Cooper S is one of the smallest he has ever seen! There is apparently loads of material on either end of the turbo which can be machined to fit bigger wheels. He said there is basically enough material there to be able to fit whatever wheels you want on there, it just depends on how bothered you are about lag.
He reccommended a common upgrade he does to Seat Curpa's where he fits an Audi RS6 cold side to it and modifies the exhaust wheel and wastegate to flow more air through the turbo, which because of the upgraded internals (thrust bearings, seals, shaft etc etc) it can handle higher boost as well.
He said 300whp looks fairly easy to achieve as there is just so much room for larger wheels.
He reckoned the biggest restriction is the air-intake stub - which the rubber air filter pipe goes over. He said that we may need to remove that and fit a larger diameter one, a) because the stock one wont flow enough air through it and b) because the larger compressor wheel is going to need more room to spin.
This isnt an issue for me as I was planning on ordering myself a polished stainless intake arm anyway, so I will just get one which is the correct diameter for the new wider stub and also the correct "end width" to connect to my DDM Works intake
He is currently investigating directly fitting the wheels off a Garrett GT28RS turbo to the K03 - obviously with a modified stub. He didnt think it would be a problem, but is just currently measuring up to make double sure.
As Coopman has reported with his GT28RS - he is getting full boost by 2000rpm (which is only 500rpm later than stock), so we may even be able to go one bigger again and still not suffer too much lag - although 2500rpm is about as late as I would like to get full boost by!
Will keep this updated as I find out more....
The company doing the hybrid have received the turbo and have just rung me with some good news.
He said that the compressor wheel on the K03 fitted to the Cooper S is one of the smallest he has ever seen! There is apparently loads of material on either end of the turbo which can be machined to fit bigger wheels. He said there is basically enough material there to be able to fit whatever wheels you want on there, it just depends on how bothered you are about lag.
He reccommended a common upgrade he does to Seat Curpa's where he fits an Audi RS6 cold side to it and modifies the exhaust wheel and wastegate to flow more air through the turbo, which because of the upgraded internals (thrust bearings, seals, shaft etc etc) it can handle higher boost as well.
He said 300whp looks fairly easy to achieve as there is just so much room for larger wheels.
He reckoned the biggest restriction is the air-intake stub - which the rubber air filter pipe goes over. He said that we may need to remove that and fit a larger diameter one, a) because the stock one wont flow enough air through it and b) because the larger compressor wheel is going to need more room to spin.
This isnt an issue for me as I was planning on ordering myself a polished stainless intake arm anyway, so I will just get one which is the correct diameter for the new wider stub and also the correct "end width" to connect to my DDM Works intake
He is currently investigating directly fitting the wheels off a Garrett GT28RS turbo to the K03 - obviously with a modified stub. He didnt think it would be a problem, but is just currently measuring up to make double sure.
As Coopman has reported with his GT28RS - he is getting full boost by 2000rpm (which is only 500rpm later than stock), so we may even be able to go one bigger again and still not suffer too much lag - although 2500rpm is about as late as I would like to get full boost by!
Will keep this updated as I find out more....
#41
05-22-2009, 08:23 AM
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Hey Everyone, although most of us Americans are watching this closely and waiting for these blokes to update us 
, there is a company here in the good ol USA that does this too. I have contacted them and hope they respond today with memorial day weekend and all.
The company is in PA and they are known to do this for Asian and Euro cars with turbos...Audi/VW being one of them which is good for us...
If they say its a go with being able to do this with the MINI Turbo, you can beat your a$$ I'll do it, espeically now with my Jan Tune. with the info futureal has gotten, I can then relay it to this company so they can do some research themselves. Love the info here!
This company upgrades and repairs turbos for half the price of an ATP type kit and it needs no other work beside unbolting and rebolting the turbo back on when you send it out and get it back. Best of all, its invisible to the dealer as the turbo size is the same, just bored out, with bigger, stronger fans that flow much more air...I don't know all the technical jargon most of guys do, but this in lamens terms is what the UK guys are doing and I think its a wonderful, cost effective HP and TRQ increase!
Keep it up Futureal!
I'll keep everyone posted and if all goes well, I'll start my own thread...sorry to kinda threadjack, but thought this was very interesting!
, there is a company here in the good ol USA that does this too. I have contacted them and hope they respond today with memorial day weekend and all. The company is in PA and they are known to do this for Asian and Euro cars with turbos...Audi/VW being one of them which is good for us...
If they say its a go with being able to do this with the MINI Turbo, you can beat your a$$ I'll do it, espeically now with my Jan Tune. with the info futureal has gotten, I can then relay it to this company so they can do some research themselves. Love the info here!
This company upgrades and repairs turbos for half the price of an ATP type kit and it needs no other work beside unbolting and rebolting the turbo back on when you send it out and get it back. Best of all, its invisible to the dealer as the turbo size is the same, just bored out, with bigger, stronger fans that flow much more air...I don't know all the technical jargon most of guys do, but this in lamens terms is what the UK guys are doing and I think its a wonderful, cost effective HP and TRQ increase!
Keep it up Futureal!
I'll keep everyone posted and if all goes well, I'll start my own thread...sorry to kinda threadjack, but thought this was very interesting!
Last edited by dtsoccer6; 05-22-2009 at 08:29 AM.
#46
05-26-2009, 12:45 AM
Hi All,
Just a quick little update. As Coopman stated I was on holiday last week, getting away from the English rain!
Work was going on while I was away and I am eagerly awaiting the phonecall today to say that my turbo is ready to be delivered back to me....
In the end we agreed on the follow specification:
Inducer = K04 031 (aka Audi RS6) compressor wheel. 6mm larger than stock and a 3mm deeper fin
Exducer = custom wheel, 5mm larger than stock
They have also modified the turbo shaft, thrust bearings and compressor inlet to be able to cope with the increased amount of pressure. They rate the turbo at being safe for upto 25psi.
The only problem I have at the moment is sourcing a new custom air intake arm which will fit the larger compressor inlet. However, I plan on doing something similar to Coopman's set up in nice shiny stainless steel
As usual I will keep this updated on my progress.
Next step is to receive the turbo back and hopefully get it fitted asap.
Mapping will unfortunately only be happening next month when I have the money to afford it!!
Just a quick little update. As Coopman stated I was on holiday last week, getting away from the English rain!
Work was going on while I was away and I am eagerly awaiting the phonecall today to say that my turbo is ready to be delivered back to me....
In the end we agreed on the follow specification:
Inducer = K04 031 (aka Audi RS6) compressor wheel. 6mm larger than stock and a 3mm deeper fin
Exducer = custom wheel, 5mm larger than stock
They have also modified the turbo shaft, thrust bearings and compressor inlet to be able to cope with the increased amount of pressure. They rate the turbo at being safe for upto 25psi.
The only problem I have at the moment is sourcing a new custom air intake arm which will fit the larger compressor inlet. However, I plan on doing something similar to Coopman's set up in nice shiny stainless steel
As usual I will keep this updated on my progress.
Next step is to receive the turbo back and hopefully get it fitted asap.
Mapping will unfortunately only be happening next month when I have the money to afford it!!
#47
05-26-2009, 01:58 AM
wait im confused.....is the cold side a k04? or did you just use the k04 wheel? because if you used the k04 housing its kind of cheating saying its a hybrid.
ps. im sorry if i come off as a ***** but if anyone complains about turbo lag and your car is making full boost at 2500 your an idiot and have never ridden in a car with "actual" turbo lag
ps. im sorry if i come off as a ***** but if anyone complains about turbo lag and your car is making full boost at 2500 your an idiot and have never ridden in a car with "actual" turbo lag
#49
05-26-2009, 03:19 AM
wait im confused.....is the cold side a k04? or did you just use the k04 wheel? because if you used the k04 housing its kind of cheating saying its a hybrid.
ps. im sorry if i come off as a ***** but if anyone complains about turbo lag and your car is making full boost at 2500 your an idiot and have never ridden in a car with "actual" turbo lag
ps. im sorry if i come off as a ***** but if anyone complains about turbo lag and your car is making full boost at 2500 your an idiot and have never ridden in a car with "actual" turbo lag
#50
05-26-2009, 05:18 AM
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