Drivetrain Anything Camshaft!!!
Anything Camshaft!!!
Here’s a thread to thrash out anything about MCS camshafts, whether it be impressions, stats/specs, aftermarket options, install questions, vernier cam gear uses, tuning, potential power/torque gains/losses in rev band, regrinding options, etc.
I’ll start with my Ultrik camshaft impressions(sorry no power/torque #’s).
After the install there was a lack of part throttle power, that has been overcome with a LW flywheel. 
Idle is only a bit more ‘lumpy’ bouncing from mid 700 to mid 800 rpm level. I’ve just hit 5K miles and so today I’ll do an oil change. Eventually, I’d like to fire in some 380cc JCW injectors to run with the JCW flash I have for safety, but money is getting tight with this sluggish economy. 
This spring I plan on running it on a Mustang Dyno here in town to see how my AF ratios are. I'll post back here after that dyno session.
My side by side rudimentary cam comparison:
Stock cam total lobe diams were:
Intake: 35.25mm
Exhaust: 35.62mm
Ultrik cam total lobe diams were:
Intake: 35.82mm
Exhaust: 36.25mm
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Here’s a few links I’ve found. Disclaimer: I do not know how reliable/accurate these sites are, so use at your own risk.
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
http://new.minimania.com/web/item/NME6045/InvDetail.cfm
http://www.newman-cams.com/pdf/bmw.pdf
To close I've got a couple of questions. Has anybody reground their stock cam to test out a more aggressive profile. What are the limits for our stock MCS cam regrinding. ie Max cam lift, duration, and how low can the base circle get before the cam is scrap? Thanks.
Jeremy
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I’ll start with my Ultrik camshaft impressions(sorry no power/torque #’s).
After the install there was a lack of part throttle power, that has been overcome with a LW flywheel. Idle is only a bit more ‘lumpy’ bouncing from mid 700 to mid 800 rpm level. I’ve just hit 5K miles and so today I’ll do an oil change. Eventually, I’d like to fire in some 380cc JCW injectors to run with the JCW flash I have for safety, but money is getting tight with this sluggish economy. This spring I plan on running it on a Mustang Dyno here in town to see how my AF ratios are. I'll post back here after that dyno session.My side by side rudimentary cam comparison:
Stock cam total lobe diams were:
Intake: 35.25mm
Exhaust: 35.62mm
Ultrik cam total lobe diams were:
Intake: 35.82mm
Exhaust: 36.25mm
[SIZE=2]
Here’s a few links I’ve found. Disclaimer: I do not know how reliable/accurate these sites are, so use at your own risk.
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
http://new.minimania.com/web/item/NME6045/InvDetail.cfm
http://www.newman-cams.com/pdf/bmw.pdf
To close I've got a couple of questions. Has anybody reground their stock cam to test out a more aggressive profile. What are the limits for our stock MCS cam regrinding. ie Max cam lift, duration, and how low can the base circle get before the cam is scrap? Thanks.
Jeremy
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4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park, Fl.
Being an OLD GearHead.. thru the past years and years of drag racing.. I have found that there can be MORE power in the Cam if the Phase is changed ( advancing or retarding the camshafts). Thus I will be testing the stock camshaft thru different degrees advanced, then retarded to see what gain there is if any! Then I will do the same with the HISTORIC Newman cam. If there is power to warrant the purchase of the adjustable cam gear.. I will be happy to share. It should perk up the Ultrik cam also I should think.. just not backed up yet!!
Because of the hyd lifter being i the rockers.. it is hard to have an off grind, and keep the proper lifter preload. I have had WEBB Cam ( great people) weld and cut a cam for me.. that one works great, just too much money at this time to put out!! Hard to beat the cost of the Historic Newman for performance and cost .
Just me...............................
Thumper
PS the Germans like the Cat Cams.
Because of the hyd lifter being i the rockers.. it is hard to have an off grind, and keep the proper lifter preload. I have had WEBB Cam ( great people) weld and cut a cam for me.. that one works great, just too much money at this time to put out!! Hard to beat the cost of the Historic Newman for performance and cost .
Just me...............................
Thumper
PS the Germans like the Cat Cams.
Yeah Thumper I thought there could be lifter preload probs if the base circles get ground down too much. We should be able to get one regrind though no?
The Newman cams look to be short duration(longer than stock but shorter than Shrick/Ultrik) and high lift. That engineering is proven with the SW5 NA and forced induction Classic Mini 1.3L motors. My Dad's 1380cc Classic Mini-with 1.5:1 ratio roller tipped rockers-loves making tourque low down! With those profiles, sometimes the cam lobes take a beating though. A few words-change yer oil early and often!
Jeremy
The Newman cams look to be short duration(longer than stock but shorter than Shrick/Ultrik) and high lift. That engineering is proven with the SW5 NA and forced induction Classic Mini 1.3L motors. My Dad's 1380cc Classic Mini-with 1.5:1 ratio roller tipped rockers-loves making tourque low down! With those profiles, sometimes the cam lobes take a beating though. A few words-change yer oil early and often!
Jeremy
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park, Fl.
Take a look at the Cat Cams.. high lift short durations.. lol
In my early 289 days , I preferred the high lift short duration cams..
The newman was cut to increase the low to mid range.. they are working on a few different grinds now for Jan ( RMW) and also for 1320Auto ( in the UK).
If their cost stays the same... it might be difficult to get a regrind that cheap!! LOL I have a BUNCH of stock cores..lol most of my inquiries with cam grinders I know... show it will need to be welded then cut!! Keep us in the loop..yes??
Just me...............................
Thumper
In my early 289 days , I preferred the high lift short duration cams..
The newman was cut to increase the low to mid range.. they are working on a few different grinds now for Jan ( RMW) and also for 1320Auto ( in the UK).
If their cost stays the same... it might be difficult to get a regrind that cheap!! LOL I have a BUNCH of stock cores..lol most of my inquiries with cam grinders I know... show it will need to be welded then cut!! Keep us in the loop..yes??
Just me...............................
Thumper
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 1
From: Winston-Salem, NC
This is an honest question not meant to start anything I really just want opinions...
I like to track my car or do hard twisties so I'm usually operating in the higher RPM ranges. Which would be better for that, a Cam with more low end torgue or one the makes a little more horsepower at higher RPMs and /or which type would give me the most torque where peak HP ocurs?
Sorry if this seems a highjack but sense you were comparing cams I thought it might be a good place to ask..
I like to track my car or do hard twisties so I'm usually operating in the higher RPM ranges. Which would be better for that, a Cam with more low end torgue or one the makes a little more horsepower at higher RPMs and /or which type would give me the most torque where peak HP ocurs?
Sorry if this seems a highjack but sense you were comparing cams I thought it might be a good place to ask..
Last edited by minimarks; Jan 31, 2009 at 04:28 PM.
Minimarks you question is completely valid for this thread! 
Why don't you try out a CATCAM part # 1302463 or part # 1302464.
Jeremy
Why don't you try out a CATCAM part # 1302463 or part # 1302464.
Jeremy
Trending Topics
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: NC
Subscribed!!! I was wondering the same things. I am on the fence about the Big valve Cosworth head and couldn't figure which cam to use with it. Most have been using Shrick and Ultrik with it on this side of the world that I have seen, but can't speak for everyone.
Somehow I get the feeling we will have some
and 
going on soon.....
Somehow I get the feeling we will have some
and going on soon.....
The German Krumm-Motors guys - MadMick and Berthil use a catcams cam with good results
They post on NAM infrequently but send them a PM they are pretty cool and can give you the low down
For me it was a toss up between the Newmans and the catcams in the end I went with the cam of many names....
They post on NAM infrequently but send them a PM they are pretty cool and can give you the low down
For me it was a toss up between the Newmans and the catcams in the end I went with the cam of many names....
Last edited by D-MAN; Feb 1, 2009 at 02:16 AM.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: Orange Park, Fl.
LOL Paul, I wasnt going to say anything about that..lol
High HP is good for the track. The twisties? You know where most of your rpm is.. usually full range, yes? Then a BVH will give you the top, but the lower rpm and when you are off boost will suffer. TORQUE is always the way to go.... ( statement edited out for the safty of the world as we know it! Tpr ) if you are searching camshafts.. then also search heads closer to your application !!
Now that time has past a bit with these cars, the options have began to surface other than Huge Valves and full on racing stuff. The Venders are beginning to build for the average driver with the itch to let it get crazy once in a while, but like the low to mid range and nice MPG... yes?? Just a thought.
Cat Cams... hit MadMick PM as D-Man suggested... and be prepared to get taught a few things.. seems the guys accross the water are leaps above us here in the US. I mean.. Autobahn!! LOL Or shoot 1320auto a pm ( Paul Webster) in the UK again they are deep into these little cars!!
Just me.................................
Thumper
High HP is good for the track. The twisties? You know where most of your rpm is.. usually full range, yes? Then a BVH will give you the top, but the lower rpm and when you are off boost will suffer. TORQUE is always the way to go.... ( statement edited out for the safty of the world as we know it! Tpr ) if you are searching camshafts.. then also search heads closer to your application !!
Now that time has past a bit with these cars, the options have began to surface other than Huge Valves and full on racing stuff. The Venders are beginning to build for the average driver with the itch to let it get crazy once in a while, but like the low to mid range and nice MPG... yes?? Just a thought.
Cat Cams... hit MadMick PM as D-Man suggested... and be prepared to get taught a few things.. seems the guys accross the water are leaps above us here in the US. I mean.. Autobahn!! LOL Or shoot 1320auto a pm ( Paul Webster) in the UK again they are deep into these little cars!!
Just me.................................
Thumper
Last edited by Thumper460; Feb 1, 2009 at 07:01 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 1
From: Winston-Salem, NC
I know torgue is king but where you get it at is my concern. 20 pounds of torgue at 3500 rpms that falls off might be great for street but not the track. Correct? Sort of like when I got mine tuned I gained 8 lbs of peak torgue but what I found most significant was at the point where peak horsepower occured there was a 14 lb increase in torgue to go along with the increase in HP! Now on the track at RPM this was major and me want more of dat!!!
I know torgue is king but where you get it at is my concern. 20 pounds of torgue at 3500 rpms that falls off might be great for street but not the track. Correct? Sort of like when I got mine tuned I gained 8 lbs of peak torgue but what I found most significant was at the point where peak horsepower occured there was a 14 lb increase in torgue to go along with the increase in HP! Now on the track at RPM this was major and me want more of dat!!!
I'm truly glad someone get's it
Minimarks what about trying a cam that has 10-15 more degrees of duration than for example the RMW cam with similar lift. That might squeeze out top end power and tourque without sacrificing low-mid. Jan is this in the works???
Jeremy
Jeremy
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
The impact of a cam change also depends on which track you are driving on. Here in Albuquerque the track is very tight, 1.4mi with 14 corners, two of which are hairpins. I love to change gears at redline, but I only get into 4th gear for a short time on the back straight.
Although racing demands can vary, I think there's a large market for a cam that can produce great mid-range torque, both for fun on the street and short, tight race tracks that favor the agility and weight of the Mini (mine only weighs 2500lb)
Although racing demands can vary, I think there's a large market for a cam that can produce great mid-range torque, both for fun on the street and short, tight race tracks that favor the agility and weight of the Mini (mine only weighs 2500lb)
I have custom grinds that are already in race cars
Well get them to market ASAP please!
I might be inclined to be a test mule(lightly modded MCS)for one of your new grinds. I'd really like to see a dyno plot of my hodge podged MCS before and after!
Jeremy
I might be inclined to be a test mule(lightly modded MCS)for one of your new grinds. I'd really like to see a dyno plot of my hodge podged MCS before and after!
Jeremy
so far the cams have only gone in cars of people we can trust
at some point they will be available, but with a cam like this you actually have to tune it to the car
Ideally every MCS should be tuned for add ons-including mine!
Another Pacific NW tuning session will have to be put into the works. This will all be dependent upon income coming in for potential customers. I know my job future is on trembling ground.
I just checked for CAT CAM suppliers and the pricing I found is outrageous. 400.00 Euros----Ouch!
Jeremy
Another Pacific NW tuning session will have to be put into the works. This will all be dependent upon income coming in for potential customers. I know my job future is on trembling ground.
I just checked for CAT CAM suppliers and the pricing I found is outrageous. 400.00 Euros----Ouch!
Jeremy
Ideally every MCS should be tuned for add ons-including mine!
Another Pacific NW tuning session will have to be put into the works. This will all be dependent upon income coming in for potential customers. I know my job future is on trembling ground.
I just checked for CAT CAM suppliers and the pricing I found is outrageous. 400.00 Euros----Ouch!
Jeremy
Another Pacific NW tuning session will have to be put into the works. This will all be dependent upon income coming in for potential customers. I know my job future is on trembling ground.
I just checked for CAT CAM suppliers and the pricing I found is outrageous. 400.00 Euros----Ouch!
Jeremy
when we priced the cams at $400 it was because the pound was 2:1 so it actually should have been higher. Considering the Schrick was $559 it is and was a bargain. What I was trying to do was to keep a stable price of the cam and not fluctuate it with currency. Sometimes you win/lose but people tend to get pissed when the price goes up or finds out someone paid less for something. Here, it's all about the witch-hunt
It would be very nice to see a few options for us consumers to try out. Baby steps forward or back power/driving wise is ok with me, especially because we're yapping about overhead cams here. OHV cam swaps are more involved and that's why it would better to be closer to bang on for those applications.
Photo below was a gift from Santa to my Dad and I. The alloy vernier cam gear will go with the best cam we can select(using our slow Canuck noggans). At least we'll be able to shift the phase a few degrees to see if there a diff on the dyno. Turbo 1293cc all the way for our Classic Mini build!
Jeremy
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
Nowdays it's hard to find a thread to post about a new cam install, since every thread about the RMW cam ends up heading south just behind Thelma and Louise, to a similar fate.
Still, ever the optimist, this thread looks like it's still heading in a good direction.
Suffice to say I installed the RMW (cam of many names) cam in my stock head this weekend, and all I can say is wow! There is more mid-range torque, undoubtedly. The car pulled pretty well before with the RMW tune, but the cam just seems to add to the feeling of grunt. I'm not one for 7k rpm thrills, so anything that begins around 3k and keeps going to 6k is my kinda entertainment.
The cam is cool. Get one.
Still, ever the optimist, this thread looks like it's still heading in a good direction.
Suffice to say I installed the RMW (cam of many names) cam in my stock head this weekend, and all I can say is wow! There is more mid-range torque, undoubtedly. The car pulled pretty well before with the RMW tune, but the cam just seems to add to the feeling of grunt. I'm not one for 7k rpm thrills, so anything that begins around 3k and keeps going to 6k is my kinda entertainment.
The cam is cool. Get one.
Thanks for your note DrPhil! Will your fuel trims adapt and compensate for the added lift of the new cam or will you get a re-tune soon?
Feel free to bounce it off the limiter once in awhile too ok!
Jeremy
Feel free to bounce it off the limiter once in awhile too ok!
Jeremy
Nowdays it's hard to find a thread to post about a new cam install, since every thread about the RMW cam ends up heading south just behind Thelma and Louise, to a similar fate.
Still, ever the optimist, this thread looks like it's still heading in a good direction.
Suffice to say I installed the RMW (cam of many names) cam in my stock head this weekend, and all I can say is wow! There is more mid-range torque, undoubtedly. The car pulled pretty well before with the RMW tune, but the cam just seems to add to the feeling of grunt. I'm not one for 7k rpm thrills, so anything that begins around 3k and keeps going to 6k is my kinda entertainment.
The cam is cool. Get one.
Still, ever the optimist, this thread looks like it's still heading in a good direction.
Suffice to say I installed the RMW (cam of many names) cam in my stock head this weekend, and all I can say is wow! There is more mid-range torque, undoubtedly. The car pulled pretty well before with the RMW tune, but the cam just seems to add to the feeling of grunt. I'm not one for 7k rpm thrills, so anything that begins around 3k and keeps going to 6k is my kinda entertainment.
The cam is cool. Get one.
Phil, one blast from 3k to 7500 in my car and your 6k entertainment needle might change.
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