Drivetrain hey jan ;
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
the fan failure leads to the pump failure. I'd be shocked to find a pump failure and no fan failure. I haven't gotten under there to look how it's set up but it would seen best to somehow relocate things in such a way as to make debris a non-issue. The only PS failures we saw on Subaru's was due to jacktards cutting the wheel to full lock and doing 'scoobynuts' (awd 360 spins) which puts enormous load on teh motor. The MINI steering is hydraulic and not electrical correct?
I would like to know what the temperature get around that area? Also how well the PS fluid circulates?
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 1
That would seem pretty easy to measure, the tubing from the pump is metal, so couldn't we just do a laser temp reading on the tubes?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
Ya I Have followed a couple forums with the fan issue. I racked the mini and took a closer look. There just is very little air that can get around the pump. I am not sold that Moss’s solution for the fan will actually work as well as I they claim? And the other devices to protect the fan will just hinder airflow. I think that eliminating the fan altogether running a small oil cooler and possibly going to a relocated reservoir. I need to think about it a little more. I also called a rep I know at Royal Purple to ask about their PS Fluid see if it will completely replace the Mini's CHF 11S fluid. This by itself may save a few pumps?
The master cylinder I am not sure I can do because how it is mounted.Now the slave may be doable?
My engine oil cooler was criticized as overkill by a few around here !
The master cylinder I am not sure I can do because how it is mounted.Now the slave may be doable?
My engine oil cooler was criticized as overkill by a few around here !
That would seem pretty easy to measure, the tubing from the pump is metal, so couldn't we just do a laser temp reading on the tubes?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
That would seem pretty easy to measure, the tubing from the pump is metal, so couldn't we just do a laser temp reading on the tubes?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
Honestly, I think it is a good idea. If the oil could be cooled without the use of the fan...say with properly positioned heat sinks etc...without raising the temps, then go for it...it definitely needs testing! What I would be concerned about without having a fan is the lovely 100 deg days here stuck in traffic. How would it the oil cool down with no air moving?
This is my engine oil cooler. What do you think about a smaller version may work for the power steering fluid? I have this manually and thermostatically controlled.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 1
Where would you put it? I think that it would have to be repositioned away from where it currently is, otherwise you risk ingesting bags etc causing the fan to burn out. It is not that likely, but on a large scale, it WILL happen to someone. I like the idea of the battery box, but then you have to lose the spare. I think the fail rate is mostly because of the quality of the fan, but I think it is also the position under the car and the fact that it will hold on to certain types of debris at lower speeds because of the suction it produces.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 1
I think the best idea would be a fan above the cooler blowing down (towards the ground) with a duct above the fan pulling the air from somewhere. That way you get the cooling needed from a fan with out having to suck from under the car. Pushing the air down could be more reliable for that problem. The problem then is where to position the duct so that it will not suck up passing debris.
I don't know if it is even feasible with the given space though.
I don't know if it is even feasible with the given space though.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
The positioning of the fans depend on how the air flows through (and under) the engine bay. If the MINI was designed to have air flow up and you put a fan in pushing down, you're not going to do much good.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
Played around with the Raytech on a friends bone stock 04 MCS. The reservoir gets cooked at about 250 or more. A lot of the heat radiates off the exhaust manifold. So this is not an ideal place for the reservoir. The lines stay constant at about 170 but that is because of the oem aluminum wrap. So I do not know what the actual line temp was. The powersteering box only got around 140. This is not totally conclusive but it shows that the oil is getting heated in the reservoir?
agreed . too bad we couldn't find a rack that fit with 16 or more to 1 ratio . i've got h.a.i. so i have some room in bay on drivers' side . if i can get some time i can see if there's room for a small cooler sharing the incoming air from where the cai used to get it's air. with the bottom of the stock box removed the air flow is good .
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
Interesting idea. What kind of cooler are you looking at?
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
This is what I had in mind as a cooler
High PSI silicone line FI SS clamps and Hi tech cooler.
And I painted it red for the extra 5 hp
I am looking into different reservoirs now? I think this and the res will solve the heat issue?
High PSI silicone line FI SS clamps and Hi tech cooler.
And I painted it red for the extra 5 hp
I am looking into different reservoirs now? I think this and the res will solve the heat issue?
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
You are thinking! I believe that with kind of set up a reservoir may not be needed at all. I am looking into how much fluid expansion there would be in the power steering lines. It may be that all that is need is a way to introduce the fluid into the system with a vented cap. In this case the cost and conversion would be low and simple to do.
man you're way ahead of me ; are you looking to do a fan still? have it t-stat controlled? or just put the cooler in the breeze? i like the fan bit cause of the traffic scenario posted earlier. who's cooler is that?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,664
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
Explain why you don't think there will be a need for a reservoir? Assuming the PS fluid responds like most other fluids and expands when heated, it's going to need some place to go. With more fluid in the system in the additional cooler and lines, you may need a LARGER reservoir. If the cooler works efficiently and keeps temps down, the stock one may work fine because the fluid won't expand as much.
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
me? i'm thinkin' a res. is needed . just not an additional one . if we can keep temps consistant then maybe the stocker will be fine . summit does have a bunch of reasonably priced coolers . just don't know what kind of p.s.i. and fittings we.re lookin' at .
Explain why you don't think there will be a need for a reservoir? Assuming the PS fluid responds like most other fluids and expands when heated, it's going to need some place to go. With more fluid in the system in the additional cooler and lines, you may need a LARGER reservoir. If the cooler works efficiently and keeps temps down, the stock one may work fine because the fluid won't expand as much.
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 715
Likes: 2
Explain why you don't think there will be a need for a reservoir? Assuming the PS fluid responds like most other fluids and expands when heated, it's going to need some place to go. With more fluid in the system in the additional cooler and lines, you may need a LARGER reservoir. If the cooler works efficiently and keeps temps down, the stock one may work fine because the fluid won't expand as much.
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
Also, you have to figure into your setup the ideal operating temperatures. Looking on Pentosin's site, the viscosity ranges from 1100mm^2/s at -40C to 18.7mm^2/s at 40C to 6mm^2/s at 100C. What does the MINI's pump want? Will having too cool a fluid hurt performance like with engine oil?
Because of the additional capacity of fluid actually a smaller reservoir would be more in line with the project. The goal is to lower the temperatures and the by product would include less oil expansion to the point that only a small expansion tank or small reservoir for adding fluid be needed. The type of fluid CH11S used would only be effected in sub cold temperatures. So cooler is better with anything except driving to the south pole. LOL
The addition of a fan can be done but that starts to limit availible mounting of the cooler and fan combination.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
Thats just beautiful 
