Drivetrain Brake dust: Comparison :)
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, New York
Well Folks,
I did a test of sorts.
Both Towels: are approx 1 month old.
I wash my MCS nearly everyday and do both the wheels/rims exclusively with these towels.
You decide which brake pad...produces less dust and how much less dust ??????
Peace,
D
I did a test of sorts.
Both Towels: are approx 1 month old.
I wash my MCS nearly everyday and do both the wheels/rims exclusively with these towels.
You decide which brake pad...produces less dust and how much less dust ??????
Peace,
D
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
>>that is crazy! 
Which part?
Is it that he is washing his MINI nearly everyday or
Showing us his dirty towels or
Giving us a wacky test on an early sunday morning or
That there may be more to consider when conducting scientific experiments with changes of multiple varibles and not enough controls while using an "n" value of 1?
Or all of the above.
I think it's cute. But maybe flawed (In a nice way of course).
I am using the stock pads. I used to have the stock S-lites on the car and it was very very very dirty. I clean my wheels multiple times a day. But since I have changed my wheels to Centerline RPMs I do not notice that much brake dust. Indeed the wheels are cleaner. I might clean them every third day and I am not getting tired either. Why is this?
Could it be the design of the rim allows more of the brake dust to exit and not deposit? Maybe the difference in finish of the wheels- one was stock silver and the other is polished? I use the same wax on both and the same towels.
Anyway getting back to D's test. Though the towels are presumably the same material the brake dust is not. Since the hardest of the brake shoe affects it's wear and production and quality of brake dust- it may affect it's rate of deposit onto your rims. The different composition of the brake dust may or may not imbed into your towel and affect your test results. Did you change wheels during the months of testing? This could affect your data/results. Did you keep records of exactly how many times you cleaned the wheels during that given month and did you keep track of how many miles you drove in each month. More miles and more braking means more brake dust. More frequent cleaning means less dirty towels each time and when you wash them out you might be able to get them cleaner than if you did a really big clean up and soiled the towel alot.
Are the towels made out of the exact same material? They appear to be different albeit white or former so, the one on the right has a textured pattern stripe running horizontally below the text on the picture. Each material may trap dust at different rates and not allow it to be cleaned out as easily.
Anyway- get to work on some more experiments and thanks for your observations- I needed something to wake up.
_________________
ALOHA
Which part?
Is it that he is washing his MINI nearly everyday or
Showing us his dirty towels or
Giving us a wacky test on an early sunday morning or
That there may be more to consider when conducting scientific experiments with changes of multiple varibles and not enough controls while using an "n" value of 1?
Or all of the above.
I think it's cute. But maybe flawed (In a nice way of course).
I am using the stock pads. I used to have the stock S-lites on the car and it was very very very dirty. I clean my wheels multiple times a day. But since I have changed my wheels to Centerline RPMs I do not notice that much brake dust. Indeed the wheels are cleaner. I might clean them every third day and I am not getting tired either. Why is this?
Could it be the design of the rim allows more of the brake dust to exit and not deposit? Maybe the difference in finish of the wheels- one was stock silver and the other is polished? I use the same wax on both and the same towels.
Anyway getting back to D's test. Though the towels are presumably the same material the brake dust is not. Since the hardest of the brake shoe affects it's wear and production and quality of brake dust- it may affect it's rate of deposit onto your rims. The different composition of the brake dust may or may not imbed into your towel and affect your test results. Did you change wheels during the months of testing? This could affect your data/results. Did you keep records of exactly how many times you cleaned the wheels during that given month and did you keep track of how many miles you drove in each month. More miles and more braking means more brake dust. More frequent cleaning means less dirty towels each time and when you wash them out you might be able to get them cleaner than if you did a really big clean up and soiled the towel alot.
Are the towels made out of the exact same material? They appear to be different albeit white or former so, the one on the right has a textured pattern stripe running horizontally below the text on the picture. Each material may trap dust at different rates and not allow it to be cleaned out as easily.
Anyway- get to work on some more experiments and thanks for your observations- I needed something to wake up.
_________________
ALOHA
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 540
Likes: 1
From: Calabasas, Los Angeles
>>Which part?
>>Is it that he is washing his MINI nearly everyday or
>>Showing us his dirty towels or
>>Giving us a wacky test on an early sunday morning or
>>That there may be more to consider when conducting scientific experiments with changes of multiple varibles and not enough controls while using an "n" value of 1?
>>Or all of the above.
>>
>>I think it's cute. But maybe flawed (In a nice way of course).
>>I am using the stock pads. I used to have the stock S-lites on the car and it was very very very dirty. I clean my wheels multiple times a day. But since I have changed my wheels to Centerline RPMs I do not notice that much brake dust. Indeed the wheels are cleaner. I might clean them every third day and I am not getting tired either. Why is this?
>>Could it be the design of the rim allows more of the brake dust to exit and not deposit? Maybe the difference in finish of the wheels- one was stock silver and the other is polished? I use the same wax on both and the same towels.
>>
>>Anyway getting back to D's test. Though the towels are presumably the same material the brake dust is not. Since the hardest of the brake shoe affects it's wear and production and quality of brake dust- it may affect it's rate of deposit onto your rims. The different composition of the brake dust may or may not imbed into your towel and affect your test results. Did you change wheels during the months of testing? This could affect your data/results. Did you keep records of exactly how many times you cleaned the wheels during that given month and did you keep track of how many miles you drove in each month. More miles and more braking means more brake dust. More frequent cleaning means less dirty towels each time and when you wash them out you might be able to get them cleaner than if you did a really big clean up and soiled the towel alot.
>>
>>Are the towels made out of the exact same material? They appear to be different albeit white or former so, the one on the right has a textured pattern stripe running horizontally below the text on the picture. Each material may trap dust at different rates and not allow it to be cleaned out as easily.
>>
>>Anyway- get to work on some more experiments and thanks for your observations- I needed something to wake up.
>>
Woah!
>>Is it that he is washing his MINI nearly everyday or
>>Showing us his dirty towels or
>>Giving us a wacky test on an early sunday morning or
>>That there may be more to consider when conducting scientific experiments with changes of multiple varibles and not enough controls while using an "n" value of 1?
>>Or all of the above.
>>
>>I think it's cute. But maybe flawed (In a nice way of course).
>>I am using the stock pads. I used to have the stock S-lites on the car and it was very very very dirty. I clean my wheels multiple times a day. But since I have changed my wheels to Centerline RPMs I do not notice that much brake dust. Indeed the wheels are cleaner. I might clean them every third day and I am not getting tired either. Why is this?
>>Could it be the design of the rim allows more of the brake dust to exit and not deposit? Maybe the difference in finish of the wheels- one was stock silver and the other is polished? I use the same wax on both and the same towels.
>>
>>Anyway getting back to D's test. Though the towels are presumably the same material the brake dust is not. Since the hardest of the brake shoe affects it's wear and production and quality of brake dust- it may affect it's rate of deposit onto your rims. The different composition of the brake dust may or may not imbed into your towel and affect your test results. Did you change wheels during the months of testing? This could affect your data/results. Did you keep records of exactly how many times you cleaned the wheels during that given month and did you keep track of how many miles you drove in each month. More miles and more braking means more brake dust. More frequent cleaning means less dirty towels each time and when you wash them out you might be able to get them cleaner than if you did a really big clean up and soiled the towel alot.
>>
>>Are the towels made out of the exact same material? They appear to be different albeit white or former so, the one on the right has a textured pattern stripe running horizontally below the text on the picture. Each material may trap dust at different rates and not allow it to be cleaned out as easily.
>>
>>Anyway- get to work on some more experiments and thanks for your observations- I needed something to wake up.
>>
Woah!
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
>>I was just hav'n some fun :smile:
>>
>>Honest :smile:
>>
>>Peace,
>>D
I know. Sorry. Your post was funny. Your towels are much cleaner than my towels. Maybe your technique is better.
Peace,
((P.S.)) I sent you an apology on your PM. I was trying to figure out why I was so grumpy and figured out that my continuously painful herniated disc in my back is hampering my comfort level of late even with doubled pain meds. In short I was having a crappy day. I can't wait for this to be better-I've had one pain free day since March 03. On a good day the medication helps-if I take it. No meds=grumpy camper. Sorry again for the rant. OK, you can get off me now.
_________________
ALOHA
>>
>>Honest :smile:
>>
>>Peace,
>>D
I know. Sorry. Your post was funny. Your towels are much cleaner than my towels. Maybe your technique is better.
Peace,
((P.S.)) I sent you an apology on your PM. I was trying to figure out why I was so grumpy and figured out that my continuously painful herniated disc in my back is hampering my comfort level of late even with doubled pain meds. In short I was having a crappy day. I can't wait for this to be better-I've had one pain free day since March 03. On a good day the medication helps-if I take it. No meds=grumpy camper. Sorry again for the rant. OK, you can get off me now.
_________________
ALOHA
Trending Topics
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
Hey, Dennis:
So you've had the Redstuffs for a month now. How do you like them in general? I seem to recall Randy (or somebody) warning that the Redstuffs need to get warm before they are really effective. Have you noticed this at all? Anything else of note, e.g. noisiness?
Cheers!
So you've had the Redstuffs for a month now. How do you like them in general? I seem to recall Randy (or somebody) warning that the Redstuffs need to get warm before they are really effective. Have you noticed this at all? Anything else of note, e.g. noisiness?
Cheers!
Thread Starter
|
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, New York
>>Hey, Dennis:
>>
>>So you've had the Redstuffs for a month now. How do you like them in general? I seem to recall Randy (or somebody) warning that the Redstuffs need to get warm before they are really effective. Have you noticed this at all? Anything else of note, e.g. noisiness?
>>
>>Cheers!
There seems to be a feeling that the greenstuff are geared for street-use and the redstuff are geared for street-use/racing. I've read the propoganda and it seems to state the above.
I just drive..... (agressively for the most part) ...but I just drive.
No auto-x , no drag racing, no street racing..here :smile:
I like the twisties and also an open highway..... where I can ...push the car a bit and put it thru it's paces.
The redstuff stop perfectly for my requirements (which are ..when I press down on the brake pedal I expect the car to stop a/s/a/p and as smoothly as possible ...rofl), there is no fade at all, and the brake dust is greatly reduced.
The brakes have lost than spongy feel present w/ the original pads ...and now feel " tight"...... If I had to use a word to describe em :smile:
Peace,
D
>>
>>So you've had the Redstuffs for a month now. How do you like them in general? I seem to recall Randy (or somebody) warning that the Redstuffs need to get warm before they are really effective. Have you noticed this at all? Anything else of note, e.g. noisiness?
>>
>>Cheers!
There seems to be a feeling that the greenstuff are geared for street-use and the redstuff are geared for street-use/racing. I've read the propoganda and it seems to state the above.
I just drive..... (agressively for the most part) ...but I just drive.
No auto-x , no drag racing, no street racing..here :smile:
I like the twisties and also an open highway..... where I can ...push the car a bit and put it thru it's paces.
The redstuff stop perfectly for my requirements (which are ..when I press down on the brake pedal I expect the car to stop a/s/a/p and as smoothly as possible ...rofl), there is no fade at all, and the brake dust is greatly reduced.
The brakes have lost than spongy feel present w/ the original pads ...and now feel " tight"...... If I had to use a word to describe em :smile:
Peace,
D
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,675
Likes: 2
From: South Bend, Indiana
Dennis-- Good info., thanks. I'm at 27,000 and thinking about new pads. I know it depends on your driving habits, but should this be about time to ditch my original pads on my MCS? I don't want to wait until I have a problem. What's your learned opinion?
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, New York
>>Dennis-- Good info., thanks. I'm at 27,000 and thinking about new pads. I know it depends on your driving habits, but should this be about time to ditch my original pads on my MCS? I don't want to wait until I have a problem. What's your learned opinion?
Remember.....
The OEM brake pads are free under warantee...so..if you like em...just go to the dealer and have em changed according to.... their scheduled maintenance standards.
I know that..... vdubdoug, morales and many others use the green stuff and swear by em..... They are bit cheaper....depending on the supplier you purchase em from.
The redstuff cost a bit more....if I recall correctly...and IMHO they were worth the investment of $$$$'s
Hope that helps :smile:
Peace,
D
Remember.....
The OEM brake pads are free under warantee...so..if you like em...just go to the dealer and have em changed according to.... their scheduled maintenance standards.
I know that..... vdubdoug, morales and many others use the green stuff and swear by em..... They are bit cheaper....depending on the supplier you purchase em from.
The redstuff cost a bit more....if I recall correctly...and IMHO they were worth the investment of $$$$'s
Hope that helps :smile:
Peace,
D
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
>>Any news on the green ones?
___________________
Green stuff does not have metallic compounds, mostly kevlar, so less dust. Red stuff has some metallic and are longer wearing. Both have received favorable test reports, so it depends on what type of driving you do, as well as your tolerance/intolerance for brake dust.
___________________
Green stuff does not have metallic compounds, mostly kevlar, so less dust. Red stuff has some metallic and are longer wearing. Both have received favorable test reports, so it depends on what type of driving you do, as well as your tolerance/intolerance for brake dust.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
I just changed my OEMs for Greenstuffs. HUGE difference in the brake dust in the fronts.
Just note that the Greenstuffs for the rear brakes do not have a cutout for the electronic wear sensor that MINI started putting on sometime mid 2003. (I have a 06/2003 build MSC) The company told me that they were unaware of the change and have not yet modified the design.
See:
Just note that the Greenstuffs for the rear brakes do not have a cutout for the electronic wear sensor that MINI started putting on sometime mid 2003. (I have a 06/2003 build MSC) The company told me that they were unaware of the change and have not yet modified the design.
See:
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
>>I just changed my OEMs for Greenstuffs. HUGE difference in the brake dust in the fronts.
>>
>>Just note that the Greenstuffs for the rear brakes do not have a cutout for the electronic wear sensor that MINI started putting on sometime mid 2003. (I have a 06/2003 build MSC) The company told me that they were unaware of the change and have not yet modified the design.
>>
>>See:
>>
So, Ryan (or anyone who knows about this stuff). Did you get the Dremel after it or something?? What is supposed to be done to make them work?
>>
>>Just note that the Greenstuffs for the rear brakes do not have a cutout for the electronic wear sensor that MINI started putting on sometime mid 2003. (I have a 06/2003 build MSC) The company told me that they were unaware of the change and have not yet modified the design.
>>
>>See:
>>
So, Ryan (or anyone who knows about this stuff). Did you get the Dremel after it or something?? What is supposed to be done to make them work?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
I didn't want to try to modify if myself. That part of the pad is hard metal and too much work for me to fuss with. EBC (the pad Maker) said to leave the sensor disconnected, that it wasn't really necessary if you visually checked the pads after 6 months or so....
I still haven't decieded if I'm going to return them, or install them and not use the sensor.
I still haven't decieded if I'm going to return them, or install them and not use the sensor.
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
Yeah...I kinda figured it would not be a fun modification...you'd go through a lot of Dremel bits!
I don't really appreciate EBC saying to simply disconnect the sensor; that it'll be fine. They had a long time to develop the rears...they've only been available since June or so, right? And they had the fronts for like a year beforehand. I don't see how they completely forgot to add a sensor cut-out. And if I'm on the track and my pads run out, I sure would like to know that they're gone without having to squint between the spokes (or worse) after every run...
...guess I'll just go with Ferrodos when I decide to do the upgrade...I'm assuming they have the cutout.
I don't really appreciate EBC saying to simply disconnect the sensor; that it'll be fine. They had a long time to develop the rears...they've only been available since June or so, right? And they had the fronts for like a year beforehand. I don't see how they completely forgot to add a sensor cut-out. And if I'm on the track and my pads run out, I sure would like to know that they're gone without having to squint between the spokes (or worse) after every run...
...guess I'll just go with Ferrodos when I decide to do the upgrade...I'm assuming they have the cutout.
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