If you want to measure the hottest spot on the OEM heat shield, aim right at the little hand with the X through it

I was focusing on the water temps post-shutdown to see if the shield would help with the cooldown process. Once the heat radiates off the turbo, there's not much the water can do to cool it My observation was that the turbo was cooled more quickly and much closer to ambient when the shield was on, but I didn't record any data. Perhaps that is a test you could add to the list, Arnbut?

For hood temps, we just did the "I can put my hand on the hood around the turbo now without burning it" test It was so close to ambient that we didn't even bother using the temp gun.

Just make sure you don't run the car without one of the heat shields being on. We had them both off briefly, and things get mighty hot under the hood.

 

Well, after listening to the naysayers, I decided to spend $50 for peace of mind and bought some NAPA 2000 deg. F rated header wrap to replace my essentially free fiberglass building insulation installation. So I take off my heat shield to inspect the material and guess what... it worked perfectly. The yellow color was cooked out to white about half way through and the part that got the hottest turned somewhat denser. No evidence of melting or burning and it probably would have worked just fine.

I like the looks of the WMW turbo wrap and was able to do my own nearly as well. But in order to get the full benefit, the headers should also be insulated.

 

You're kidding right? Please tell me you are kidding... Please...

By your line of reasoning, should we all get rid of those energy stealing radiators? That pesky power robbing coolant? Please tell me that was sarcasm...

 

If it makes you happy:

Yes I am kidding, I know absolutely nothing about thermodynamics, I have never touched a wrench, nor have I ever had any experience modifying car / motorcycle engines. Heck I probably even would go as far to say that I am not a thermal coatings / ceramic materials scientist. Barely got out of high school, work as bar tender in a strip club.


Oh yesss:

Found this on the website in your signature:

http://www.customminishop.com/product/m7-agex.htm

I hope you do not own the custom mini shop. Cause that would make this even funnier.

Believe what you choose, or attempt to verify / disprove what you have trouble swallowing.

 

First, no I don't own CMS, and there is a serious difference between that additional heat shield made by M7 and a wrap that keeps heat in the turbo. That shield deflects heat away from the rest of the engine compartment and the intake, but still allows the heat to escape in other directions. It's a good thing that you are not a thermal coatings / ceramics scientist then, because if you were you would have certainly had to take a course that covered the basic theories of metallurgy for your major and would have learned that by repeatedly exposing a metal to high heat, it begins to harden, causing it to become brittle and eventually crack. So by wrapping and insulating a turbo, you are stopping the heat from escaping from the turbo itself keeping it much hotter much longer. Yes, you keep the rest of the engine compartment cooler, but at what cost??
Second, in your original post, you equated heat to energy. In a basic sense you are correct, but how exactly does that energy translate to power? Without causing the oil to coke in the extreme heat caused by radiating the heat back onto the turbo? I know that synthetic oil has a much higher heat tolerance, but it still doesn't hold up that well under that much heat. Now of course there is the fact that the casing of the turbo is consistently hotter and is therefore going to raise the temperature of the air as it passes through. Despite the intercooler, the air going into the cylinder is going to then be hotter. Unless I am missing something, I get the feeling that this is not really a good thing.
Luckily, you are just a bar tender.
[/rant off]

 

Please don't scare off too many enthusiasts who want to improve the efficiency, gas mileage and performance of their stock or modified engines with very little effort or cost. Those who have installed the WAY turbo wraps are reporting significant gains. You can also wrap your own by feeding 2" header wrap around the turbo and pulling it tight. I used the excess to also wrap the header and am very pleased with the results. Take a realistic look at the thermodynamics and materials involved and the risk of this mod becomes insignificant or even zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tell me your "feelings".

 

I'd love to see a dyno graph of the "Significant Gains" people are experiencing by insulating their turbos...gas milage? Come on man... HOTTER intake air and a turbo running 50 degrees hotter than it would otherwise be running isn't going to improve your gas milage.

It certainly will keep heat out of the engine bay, I'm not sure how that translates to "Significant Gains" though. I'd be REALLY surprised if someone managed to gain 1 HP from this mod. The only benefit I can see is to lower the risk of melting your hood scoop. I can't see how trapping heat inside the turbo WOULDN'T raise IAT's. Your turbo is still outputting the same heat, it's just trapped now.

Experiment time! Take a space heater with a fan on it and put it inside a small room. Measure the temperature of the air coming out of it after 15 minutes, then again after 30, and again after 45. Well would you look at that, the air is getting hotter! That's your turbo!

Trapping heat in the already blazing hot turbo also doesn't sound like good idea for turbo longevity. Short term you may benefit by lowering underhood temps, but there's a reason they don't come wrapped. Insulation traps heat. That trapped heat cokes oil. Failed turbo bearings anyone?

There's a difference between wrapping your header and wrapping a turbo. First of all, headers can, and WILL fail if you wrap them and they're not made out of 304 Stainless or some other strong metal. An Iron header is GOING to crack if you wrap it (Stock header?).

Second, people have been wrapping headers for 60 years. It certainly doesn't give you any "Significant Gains". Again, you'd be lucky if you got 1 HP out of it. The only benefit is to keep the exhaust pulses consistent between cylinders, thus improving scavenging.

 

I think you will find that a wrapped turbo will keep a constant temp. In the long run this should allow the turbo to last longer since it is no longer heating and cooling during use. Less fatigue on the metal. Given the cooling system is operating properly internal temps will remain constant.

 

I'd still think that the temperature variance would erase most if not all of the benefits of the heating/cooling fatigue. I've never done any data logging on a car with a wrapped turbo. It'd be interesting to see what kind of IAT's you'd be pushing by insulating it vs not insulating it.

The cooling system on the R56 appears taxed enough with 225+ degree water temps on the street when it's 65 out. I'm not sure I'd want to see what happens when the system has to work 20-30% harder to keep the temperatures down because of the increased turbo temps.

If anyone in SoCaL wants to help take on this little project and has a turbo wrap, I have some data logging equipment.

 

1 hp il take it.

 

I really am having trouble with this series of repeated comments; trapped heat... there is an exhaust pipe, and flowing gas. cooked bearings? bearings cook when there is ineffective cooling post use, the Mini continues to cool the turbo post shutdown.

secondly there are two schools of thought here, people who do mild mods for minimal gain, people who just continue to mod and build. The mild mods, there really isn't an issue with part life. People like me who mod and build, well who cares if my turbo dies in 10K miles, I'll just upgrade it. Lets get real here. What is the basis of your concern?

 

I think some people here need to read the thread on the WMW turbo wrap. The feedback there is excellent so far and there has actually been some positive effects of lowered coolant temps.
I think the lowered coolant temp will be the result of the wrapped turbo putting less heat into the radiator. Having that hot turbo there has to radiate some heat to the rear of the radiator (on the reverse surface and therefore the side with less airflow), this probably causes a hot spot on the radiator core.

With a wrapped turbo, this heat goes harmlessly out the exhaust, the radiator stays cooler, therefore the coolant through the turbo can also remove heat better.

That is my theory anyway.

 

Only the hot side of the turbo should be wrapped. The bearings and intake side are left uncovered. Without the wrap, the heat is radiating up from the exhaust side and is trapped by the OEM shield and hood over the entire turbo when the car isn't moving. The post-shutdown coolant recirc keeps the bearings from coking, but it can't do anything about the radiated heat.

I don't think the wrap would have substantial direct gains in a turbo this small, but even a tiny bit of efficiency gain in a turbo is welcome, since the energy is "free". It's the indirect benefits of reducing the underhood temps that is the big win with the wrap.

IMHO, the OEM solution is a design flaw that I expect them to eventually remedy with either a cooling fan or wrap. We should start seeing pictures of the JCW Stage II turbo soon, and that might give some hints about what MINI is going to do. Meanwhile, mine's wrapped, the underhood temps are cool, the coolant temps are staying at 225 and below, and I'm happy

 

Rusty man, I think you're getting beat down with the smartness on this whole heat = energy = maybe we have something new here and it rocks so leave us alone.


Oh, and I got an "A" in my thermo-dynamics class... but im just a watchin this. Maybe ill go get a drink

 

I didn't know the wrap was only on the hot side, that makes more sense.

As for the other comments, I'm talking about once the car is shut off. 5 minutes of coolant flow is great, but once that turns off, your turbo sits there and bakes for hours. Wrapping the entire turbo in insulation IS going to trap heat.

Yes, some heat flows out through the exhaust, but without any air moving from the engine being on, there''s bound to be excess heat trapped somewhere. The OEM design is just a shield, there aren't any insulating properties. The heat is free to flow around the OEM shield.

It's your car, mod it how you wish, just thinking outside the box, instead of blindly following the sheep.

Jace: Not everyone on the forum feels like replacing their turbo in 10k miles, in fact I'd be willing to bet that the number of people interested in doing that could probably be counted on 2 hands. If you do, that's your own thing. Posting advice that benefits 5% of the forum population isn't helpful though.

 

Yes, a bunch of people posting "It works, do it" with no data whatsoever, claiming "Significant gains" from wrapping their turbo in fiberglass insulation are definitely "Beating me down with smartness".

 

I dunno, i gotta say, I think they are thinking outside of the box with the wrap. Turbo heat is a big issue with the R56, and they are thinking of solutions. Dunno how much the wrap is, but my thinking is it cannot be that much. Yes maybe testing with hard data results need to be done, but at least their tryin' new things!

Now people buying colorful, $300 parts, that most likely do NOTHING, from some other tuner on here claiming that they work and make obscene dyno numbers....now thats a prime example of people acting like sheep.

 

I was talking about people that were somehow amazed that I didn't just "Believe" that it worked.

I'd welcome the idea to test something new out. My challenge was on the notion that wrapping a turbo up in fiberglass would have absolutely no bearing on it's life. People that have done the same thing and seen premature failure would argue otherwise.

 

I weighed the potential for reduced turbo life against the potential for having to go through multiple hood paint jobs and other issues that may be caused by the excessive underhood heat, and for me it was a no-brainer. Of course, everyone's "rationalization math" works differently I also anticipate going to a different turbo down the line as the aftermarket parts and tuning for the R56 mature.

It's likely that MINI would foot the bill for the hood repainting if the damage was obvious, but they probably wouldn't cover my time and materials for the custom vinyl work. I'm not sure if they are paying to have the washer boilover stains fixed, either. To me it seems painfully obvious that it's a design flaw, but I'm sure MINI has a different, less costly (for them) opinion

The possibility for a small performance gain is nice, but I don't think it should be the driving factor. It sounds like Arnbut is doing some significant data logging, but I don't think it includes dyno runs.

Also, although it's really a non-point, the WMW heat shield doesn't use fiberglass. It's a metallic cloth around a flexible ceramic core. It looks like the material they cover your "important parts" with when they take X-rays

 

My comment was more directed towards the original post in this thread, which was to wrap the whole turbo in fiberglass building insulation.

I don't think dyno runs matter, I'd rather see road test data. No dyno can simulate airflow on the real road.

 

So Rusty, if the number of people who change parts on the car is small, how do explain the mods listed in your sig? How many miles before you invested in a new head? New clutch?

You really do get a little annoying. You spend a lot of time bashing, arguing, and ripping on just about everyone, just who peed in your wheaties?

 

hahha wheaties pee. i wrapped my turbo last night. it made that part of the engine a lil quieter it seems. i will know more the longer i have it on . i think having a downpipe on and the wrap together will be better. so the downpipe is next.

 

C'mon guys. Rustyboy is asking legitimate questions and making perfectly valid points. It's healthy to question the impact (or potential impact) of mods to your car. Especially when some vendors here are marketing miracles and delivering absolute craptastic products. Rational people with rational questions should always be welcomed

For me, the turbo wrap is a low risk/high gain mod, but other people may come to a different conclusion. For example, raising the rev limiter to me is a high risk/high gain mod due to the geometric increase in stress on the engine (especially the pistons), but people do it all the time when they get a custom ECU tune. I would even personally rank a supercharger reduction pulley as a higher risk mod than the turbo wrap, but it's considered a de-facto mod now

The important thing is to ask the right questions before modding, and ignore the marketing BS. One of things I like most about Way is that he's brutally honest about mods. I've seen him talk people out of buying stuff from him many times when their purchase list doesn't mesh with their goals. A long-term happy customer beats the hell out of a quick buck

 

That is sig worthy

 

Firstly, I'm most certainly a minority in the MINI Community when it comes to the level I've gone with mods, and I don't have to "Explain" my mods. This is my second MINI I've owned and modded, I've been here a long time, seen a lot of BS products, and wasted a LOT of money. If you find my posts annoying, block me, it's really easy, just click on my name, the drop down box has an option to block me.

There's also an established aftermarket in the R53 community (And they're a LOT less expensive). It's a completely different market. I've seen the differences between R56 owners and R53 owners. The percentages of "Mad Modders" are much lower on the R56 side for now.

I don't know, somehow I doubt that there is a sizable portion of R56 owners on this site that plan on upgrading their turbos for $5k+ in the next 6-8 months . Hence my comment that you surely speak for a minority of owners when you say that it "Doesn't matter if the turbo dies, cause you'll be replacing it in 10k miles anyway".

Most of the people that did something like this would be REALLY pissed if they went into the dealer in a year and they told them they needed a new turbo.

If you don't like seeing ideas and products challenged, don't listen. I could give a crap.

This isn't my job, I post on here because I watch the BS spewing from vendor's mouths and can't stand it. I've watched people get sucked into the "cool new products" crap. $10,000 later they made 30 HP, wow!

I've spent more money on upgrades over the 3 or so years I've been in this community than most people spent on their last 2 cars period (The total for this car alone would make most people's eyes pop out...), does that qualify me as an expert? No, but I've learned enough over the years to know what does and doesn't work.

Does this mod do anything? Sure, it lowers underhood temps (If done properly). My skeptisism lies in blind faith that it's not going to cause premature wear or other issues.

As I said before, mod as you wish. It's your money.