Drivetrain Twincharge on the cheap?
Twincharge on the cheap?
Alright so I'm at a point where my next mods will be coilovers, control arms, new wheels/tires, and alignment OR... TWINCHARGE.
My question is, what are the ESSENTIALS for twincharging. I would want something moderate, read: 250-275whp. Reason being? I don't want to touch my engine internals just yet as when I go that route I'll go with a complete head/cam setup along with pistons.
So, all you TC guru's help me out here. Trying to think of a short list of essentials for a moderate custom TC kit.
Turbo - Thinking Garrett GT28RS
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3"
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well...
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL
Injectors (500cc to be safe?)
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option)
Boost Controller
Upgraded Intercooler necessary?
My question is, what are the ESSENTIALS for twincharging. I would want something moderate, read: 250-275whp. Reason being? I don't want to touch my engine internals just yet as when I go that route I'll go with a complete head/cam setup along with pistons.
So, all you TC guru's help me out here. Trying to think of a short list of essentials for a moderate custom TC kit.
Turbo - Thinking Garrett GT28RS
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3"
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well...
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL
Injectors (500cc to be safe?)
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option)
Boost Controller
Upgraded Intercooler necessary?
Last edited by Wake|MCS; Oct 31, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
All I can preach is talk to TULS!
Tuls Tuls Tuls
Also, I don't know if you can "do-it" that cheap...You really need to do this right when it gets done. So, I don't mean to bum you out, but I think unless you want to go head first into this with the proper budget and plan you are not ready for this yet.
Budget: At least $4,000
Like I said shoot Tuls a PM and you will be able to figure things out.
Tuls Tuls Tuls
Also, I don't know if you can "do-it" that cheap...You really need to do this right when it gets done. So, I don't mean to bum you out, but I think unless you want to go head first into this with the proper budget and plan you are not ready for this yet.
Budget: At least $4,000
Like I said shoot Tuls a PM and you will be able to figure things out.
All I can preach is talk to TULS!
Tuls Tuls Tuls
Also, I don't know if you can "do-it" that cheap...You really need to do this right when it gets done. So, I don't mean to bum you out, but I think unless you want to go head first into this with the proper budget and plan you are not ready for this yet.
Budget: At least $4,000
Like I said shoot Tuls a PM and you will be able to figure things out.
Tuls Tuls Tuls
Also, I don't know if you can "do-it" that cheap...You really need to do this right when it gets done. So, I don't mean to bum you out, but I think unless you want to go head first into this with the proper budget and plan you are not ready for this yet.
Budget: At least $4,000
Like I said shoot Tuls a PM and you will be able to figure things out.
Tuls chime in here and tell me what you think.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,335
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From: Tucson, AZ
Well I would go 2871rs for a turbo, run a manual boost controller, you can run 440cc injectors (I run these and cut them back a ton and can still push 30lbs), Apexi Neo would be the most affordable fueling option, I would def' plan on the intercooler upgrade. You will need someone who has firsthand experience in doing the custom work to be able to afford it all.....good luck.....should be fun!!
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
Yeah I'm afraid of that... I will only go twincharge if a buddy of mine (owns a shop and welds) agrees to do custom work for me as that would cut down costs A LOT. Plus it means all parts at dealer cost. Just tossing ideas.
Tuls chime in here and tell me what you think.
Tuls chime in here and tell me what you think.
Well I would go 2871rs for a turbo, run a manual boost controller, you can run 440cc injectors (I run these and cut them back a ton and can still push 30lbs), Apexi Neo would be the most affordable fueling option, I would def' plan on the intercooler upgrade. You will need someone who has firsthand experience in doing the custom work to be able to afford it all.....good luck.....should be fun!!
Which brand of 440's are you running?
Boost Controller - I just need something that I can switch from low boost/high boost with the flick of a switch. I would rather be extremely moderate for daily driving in my commute to school in stop-and-go traffic and then be able to up the boost a tiny bit when I want to play.
As for intercooler, would a huge front mount or a w2a be needed or would something like the forge/alta top-mounts suffice?
Intercooler Part B - Is any cutting required for a frount mount routed via the center (a la Fireballed M600)
The supercharger - Better to leave with stock pulley or go with an oversized a la Alta?
A question about tuning/manifolds, this buddy of mine makes custom manifolds mainly for Honda's and such. All tubular, other than being equal length, for turbos there really isn't any R&D necessary for the manifold correct? And now for tuning, he tunes Honda's/Acura's mainly with K-Pro and the like. In tuning the MINI is there anything out of the ordinary that needs to be looked at or taken into consideration?
Sorry for all the questions just trying to learn something new.
Last edited by Wake|MCS; Oct 31, 2007 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Boost Controller Comment
I run 550's that were altered from the stock 330's. They work fine, but I do have to pull fueling way back.
Boost Controller - I just need something that I can switch from low boost/high boost with the flick of a switch. I would rather be extremely moderate for daily driving in my commute to school in stop-and-go traffic and then be able to up the boost a tiny bit when I want to play.
A question about tuning/manifolds, this buddy of mine makes custom manifolds mainly for Honda's and such. All tubular, other than being equal length, for turbos there really isn't any R&D necessary for the manifold correct? And now for tuning, he tunes Honda's/Acura's mainly with K-Pro and the like. In tuning the MINI is there anything out of the ordinary that needs to be looked at or taken into consideration?
Last edited by Trickle X; Oct 31, 2007 at 08:38 PM.
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Thanks for all the input TrickleX!!
Thanks for clearing up the turbo confusion. As for the housing style, T25 with internal wastegate? Also, what is the difference between a .86 A/R turbine housing and a .64 A/R turbine housing?
By manifold I meant exhaust manifold heh, I should've been more clear on that. I don't plan on changing the current intake manifold, i'll leave that to the turbo-only guys lol.
As for the spare headers, are they stocks or previous Alta manifolds (weren't yours the ones that kept cracking?)
Ok seems that I have a general list of things needed, time to start seeing if I can fit it all in a tight budget. If not I guess I'll have to just piece together the kit little by little until I have all the parts necessary...
Thanks for clearing up the turbo confusion. As for the housing style, T25 with internal wastegate? Also, what is the difference between a .86 A/R turbine housing and a .64 A/R turbine housing?
By manifold I meant exhaust manifold heh, I should've been more clear on that. I don't plan on changing the current intake manifold, i'll leave that to the turbo-only guys lol.
As for the spare headers, are they stocks or previous Alta manifolds (weren't yours the ones that kept cracking?)
Ok seems that I have a general list of things needed, time to start seeing if I can fit it all in a tight budget. If not I guess I'll have to just piece together the kit little by little until I have all the parts necessary...
Last edited by Wake|MCS; Oct 31, 2007 at 09:44 PM.
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
on the turbo fornt, might be worth looking at a secondhand EVO or Scoobie turbo. these things can diliver well over 300bhp and will be alot cheaper than a GT turbo. plus the above will come with all the bits for the weastgate and stuff.
you might want to look into making a twinscroll manifold if you were to use these as they are both designed that way. it will help massively with spooling the turbo though.
alternatively look at the Nisan SD20T (i think thats the engine code) turbos.
i think you have to cut the bumper bar to get a front mount like the M600. or you could look at how Tuls did his. its a bit longer route but i recon it would reduce the cutting needed.
cheers Chris.
you might want to look into making a twinscroll manifold if you were to use these as they are both designed that way. it will help massively with spooling the turbo though.
alternatively look at the Nisan SD20T (i think thats the engine code) turbos.
i think you have to cut the bumper bar to get a front mount like the M600. or you could look at how Tuls did his. its a bit longer route but i recon it would reduce the cutting needed.
cheers Chris.
Hmm I'll look into the STi/EVO turbos but I want to overbuild the kit now so that when I have the cash to get a head/cam/pistons/rods/etc. I don't have to go out and buy another turbo, etc. to make real power. The power I want to get for now is just child's play lol. Further down the road I'd want to make some serious power though.
As for the intercooler, if I were to do this I think I'd just wait it out and pick up a used Alta V2 or m7 DFIC.
Keep the input coming guys!
Oh and, I was pricing some stuff out and this is still pretty expensive even with the price cuts I get. It all comes down to how much the custom fabwork and tuning will cost...
As for the intercooler, if I were to do this I think I'd just wait it out and pick up a used Alta V2 or m7 DFIC.
Keep the input coming guys!
Oh and, I was pricing some stuff out and this is still pretty expensive even with the price cuts I get. It all comes down to how much the custom fabwork and tuning will cost...
Save yourself the trouble!!! Sell yours and buy this one.....
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=118348
But also be aware of this.......
Problem:Occasionally throws P0172-rich bank 1, which seems typical with these cars and mods. It also still intermittently throws the CEL and EML with full throttle and high boost above 15PSI, causing a loss in power. As long as you let up on the throttle when this occurs, the lights go off and it returns to normal. The problem is electrical somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Driving moderately, it drives great and has no problems. Even with moderate boost, the acceleration is impressive.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=118348
But also be aware of this.......
Problem:Occasionally throws P0172-rich bank 1, which seems typical with these cars and mods. It also still intermittently throws the CEL and EML with full throttle and high boost above 15PSI, causing a loss in power. As long as you let up on the throttle when this occurs, the lights go off and it returns to normal. The problem is electrical somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Driving moderately, it drives great and has no problems. Even with moderate boost, the acceleration is impressive.
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...d.php?t=118348
That is one helluva deal, but it seams that the only way to get Tuls's amount of power you have to go custom. Why do none of the "turbo kits" give the kind of power that Tuls gets?
That is one helluva deal, but it seams that the only way to get Tuls's amount of power you have to go custom. Why do none of the "turbo kits" give the kind of power that Tuls gets?
Save yourself the trouble!!! Sell yours and buy this one.....
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=118348
But also be aware of this.......
Problem:Occasionally throws P0172-rich bank 1, which seems typical with these cars and mods. It also still intermittently throws the CEL and EML with full throttle and high boost above 15PSI, causing a loss in power. As long as you let up on the throttle when this occurs, the lights go off and it returns to normal. The problem is electrical somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Driving moderately, it drives great and has no problems. Even with moderate boost, the acceleration is impressive.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=118348
But also be aware of this.......
Problem:Occasionally throws P0172-rich bank 1, which seems typical with these cars and mods. It also still intermittently throws the CEL and EML with full throttle and high boost above 15PSI, causing a loss in power. As long as you let up on the throttle when this occurs, the lights go off and it returns to normal. The problem is electrical somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Driving moderately, it drives great and has no problems. Even with moderate boost, the acceleration is impressive.
Chris your link isn't working, might want to check it out...
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...d.php?t=118348
That is one helluva deal, but it seams that the only way to get Tuls's amount of power you have to go custom. Why do none of the "turbo kits" give the kind of power that Tuls gets?
That is one helluva deal, but it seams that the only way to get Tuls's amount of power you have to go custom. Why do none of the "turbo kits" give the kind of power that Tuls gets?
and people dont' like "lights" ... waaa my check engine light is on.... my responce to that... "that's not my check engine light... that's my 400 WHP light"
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
I am working on something that should put me in your range...but everyone is going to have to wait to find out.
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Turbo - Thinking Garrett GT28RS
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3"
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well...
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL
Injectors (500cc to be safe?)
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option)
Boost Controller
Upgraded Intercooler necessary?
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap there's no such thing as "cheap" check with hubie for a manifold
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3" yes please!
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well... every spi pipe is custom.. it's better that way
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL sure whatever
Injectors (500cc to be safe?) 550s are great... especially cause you WILL want more
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option) still the best.. for numerous reasons... that I am not going to list
Boost Controller uh.. that's kewl.. I dont have one.. but if I was turbo only I would
Upgraded Intercooler necessary? 100% absolutely I cant stress to you enough how important this is
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
get it "running joke"
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
faaaabulous info
These Turbos are different if you're talking about the gt2871r vs the disco potato which I think you are. You want the gt2871r
I run 550's that were altered from the stock 330's. They work fine, but I do have to pull fueling way back.
Any good digital controller will suit you. You would need to set up 2 different maps for the boost in order to get the most out of each settings. The Apexi will accommodate that.
You can use the Alta or stock for that matter.....I do have an Alta forsale for cheap if you want...I also have some spare headers...Just PM me...
Depends on the size of the front mount, but I wouldnt even think about doing a front mount until you get everything sorted 1st. Top mount will suffice for now and simplicity sake.
Leave it stock....
The Intake manifold is a key element on tuning. Port shapes and tube lengths play a huge part as to how the power is delivered. Longer tubes generally give you higher topend hp at the sacrifice of less torque, while shorter tubes give you more torque but less overall hp. A few cars even incorporate dual stage runners on their intake manifolds to gain the best of both worlds albeit on normally aspirated cars. Their is a plethora of info on intake manifolds out on the net. Do a little bit of research, ie google($707 a share & for good reason)
I run 550's that were altered from the stock 330's. They work fine, but I do have to pull fueling way back.
Any good digital controller will suit you. You would need to set up 2 different maps for the boost in order to get the most out of each settings. The Apexi will accommodate that.
You can use the Alta or stock for that matter.....I do have an Alta forsale for cheap if you want...I also have some spare headers...Just PM me...
Depends on the size of the front mount, but I wouldnt even think about doing a front mount until you get everything sorted 1st. Top mount will suffice for now and simplicity sake.
Leave it stock....
The Intake manifold is a key element on tuning. Port shapes and tube lengths play a huge part as to how the power is delivered. Longer tubes generally give you higher topend hp at the sacrifice of less torque, while shorter tubes give you more torque but less overall hp. A few cars even incorporate dual stage runners on their intake manifolds to gain the best of both worlds albeit on normally aspirated cars. Their is a plethora of info on intake manifolds out on the net. Do a little bit of research, ie google($707 a share & for good reason)
Turbo - Thinking Garrett GT2871r
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap there's no such thing as "cheap" check with hubie for a manifold
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3" yes please!
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well... every spi pipe is custom.. it's better that way
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL sure whatever
Injectors (500cc to be safe?) 550s are great... especially cause you WILL want more
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option) still the best.. for numerous reasons... that I am not going to list
Boost Controller uh.. that's kewl.. I dont have one.. but if I was turbo only I would
Upgraded Intercooler necessary? 100% absolutely I cant stress to you enough how important this is
Manifold - Probably custom unless a vendor will sell me one for cheap there's no such thing as "cheap" check with hubie for a manifold
Downpipe - Custom, cat-less 3" yes please!
Charge-pipe - I like the SPI or Alta. If not, custom as well... every spi pipe is custom.. it's better that way
BOV - HKS SSQ or T-XS H-RFL sure whatever
Injectors (500cc to be safe?) 550s are great... especially cause you WILL want more
S-AFC for tuning (unless there is another option) still the best.. for numerous reasons... that I am not going to list
Boost Controller uh.. that's kewl.. I dont have one.. but if I was turbo only I would
Upgraded Intercooler necessary? 100% absolutely I cant stress to you enough how important this is
And, what do you use to control boost? Just the wastegate? internal or external? Which one?
Planning any trips to South Florida any time next year? Come tune my car haha
EDIT: I'll be contacting Hubie after SEMA as I'm sure he's keeping busy with that. The shop I used to work at was supposed to be set up as a Fireballed vendor but they never got back to me and now I no longer work there lol.. Hmmm I wonder..
Last edited by Wake|MCS; Nov 1, 2007 at 08:28 PM.
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Alright so, what BOV do YOU use? lol
And, what do you use to control boost? Just the wastegate? internal or external? Which one?
Planning any trips to South Florida any time next year? Come tune my car haha
EDIT: I'll be contacting Hubie after SEMA as I'm sure he's keeping busy with that. The shop I used to work at was supposed to be set up as a Fireballed vendor but they never got back to me and now I no longer work there lol.. Hmmm I wonder..
And, what do you use to control boost? Just the wastegate? internal or external? Which one?
Planning any trips to South Florida any time next year? Come tune my car haha
EDIT: I'll be contacting Hubie after SEMA as I'm sure he's keeping busy with that. The shop I used to work at was supposed to be set up as a Fireballed vendor but they never got back to me and now I no longer work there lol.. Hmmm I wonder..
I just use the wastegate which is internal I think it has a 10lb spring... which means it opens pretty much right away
dunno about that florida thing....
the kewl thing is he already has the stuff figured out that you need... the manifold for the turbo is done.. it's a bolt on... etc etc...