Recently a new MCS owner was faced with a very REAL dilemma.

Should he spend $500+ on suspension and brake upgrades or trim the upgrade budget and attend a Driving school with good experienced instructors in his local area?

For me this is a no brainer. I recommended the driving school 100%.

It was a hard decision but he went with the parts upgrades even though we discussed the pros and cons.

Bottomline all the time is-
The driver makes the most difference in any performance situation with any car on any course. Why is that so hard to accept?

Skill matters when it comes to driving.

Naturally we all think we are each good/skilled drivers but I will be the first to admit my shortcomings and welcome EVERY opportunity to sign up for a driving school where I can learn from those much more capable than I.

Even professional drivers benefit from coaching.

 

Mod the driver before you mod the car. I have attended 1 driving school and it was great, at first, I thought I could drive well, then my instructor showed me whats up. And now I am much better on the track, but still have much to learn. I plan on hitting up more track days and driving schools as often as I can, or as often I can afford too. haha

 

I believe the thinking is, "it can't be me, it must be the car." This mentality will change after you take the driving schools. It's hard to realize how much the schools can make a difference until you take them. Seat time...seat time...seat time...the three best mods you'll ever get.

 

"They" don't get it. Its an ego thing for males.

What do they say?

"More HP ... .2 sec
Better Suspension ... .2 sec
Drivers school ... 2 sec"

 

Yes it a hard concept for some folks, as a driving instructor my recommendation would always be to learn driving skills first then figure out what you need to mod on the car based on your intended use. I get a lot of seat time (32 days so far this year) both passenger/ instructor and driver per track day and I am constantly learning every time I get out there.

I will give you an example:
I have driven the glen many times, on my last visit a few weeks ago the club ran a no brake exercise for the advance group, even though it was not a requirement for me since I run in instructor group I participated since I had not have the opportunity to do this on this course. I came away from this exercise with a new found respect for this course, I also now have a new higher corner entry speed and better gear selection for every turn on this course, yes the no brake exercise showed me how to be faster on this course.

 

I've done just one track day as a novice -- could you elaborate on what the "no brake exercise" is? Sounds useful...

Thanks,
Dave

 

The no brake exercise is as follows:
You are instructed to drive the course without using your brakes, this means that you have to start off slower than you would if you are using your brakes at each turn, you are allowed to scrub your speed any way you wish without using the brake. The big benefit of this is that you will begin to test the limits for max entry speed of each turn (max entry speed results in max exit speed results in max speed on the straights). The object is to see what is the max entry speed that you can negotiate the turn with out ending up scrubbing speed while being smooth in the turn.
The truth is most people break too much for the turns and loose too much speeds on the following straight, in order to get great lap times on a track one has to master entry and exit speeds on each turn.

 

Sounds like golf. Pun not really intended but this advice is so true of any sport and I think golf is a good example. I know so many golfers who spend a lot of money on equipment and the new fad club every year. Yet these same people never take lessons. I played with the same old golf set for many years and kicked the butts of my freinds that have all the latest greatest equipment. Same is true to a lesser degree in softball/baseball where it has become the cool thing to buy the most expensive equipment. I am not saying equipment doesn't make a difference because it does but as you say the biggest difference in every sport comes from practice, lessons, coaching.

I have no track experience but have been thinking of getting into it. This advice sure makes sense. But for someone like me considering getting into a track experience, presuming I do the school thing first then what mods are primary. I have no mods to my MCS yet and I was thinking just out of my own guesswork that if I get into track perhaps suspension and sway bar may be the first mods to do from a safety point of view. What do you experienced trackers say?

 

Not that's I'm that experienced... only 7 track days so far.

The number one upgrade to do is something about the brakes. At a minimum, do brake fluid and pads. I'm using ATE Super Blue brake fluid and Hawk HPS front pads / Ferodo rear pads. Knowing that your brakes will behave the same way throughout a track session will make you so much more comfortable on the track. If you have to wonder when they will start to fade, and then where to adjust your braking points to once they do, life will be miserable. You don't need to go to a big brake kit, but you can. You do need to upgrade fluid and pads, though.

After that, tires. I've been running the same tires daily and on the track - Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3. The advice I've been given is to run on "street" tires for the first season. After that, if you're still addicted, go with a dedicated set of track wheels and either a high performance street tire, or a track tire. Many people will still recommend running something other than R-compund (track) tires for as long as you can stand it. but a second set of wheels / tires will allow you to drive home when you finally try to get one day too many out of your tires.

After that, the options open up. More power? More handling? A harness? I think at that point it's up to what you want. But definitely start with brakes then tires (or both at the same time).

 

I just got home from my first track event (2 dayer) and I would have to agree with Snid. My tires were good for it at my driving level (Falken Azenis) but I was running stock brake pads. I at least had SS brake lines and ATE Super Blue b/c I got them for a good deal from a friend and I think that it helped a bit but some good brake pads would've been very useful. After that, I would say get a couple harnesses to keep you in your seat. I have 1 Schroth 4-point harness that I use to keep me in my seat during auto-x, but I couldn't use it b/c I only had 1 and you must have equal restraints for both you and your instructor which is understandable. But I really think that I would have benefited from being held in my seat better and not having to exert energy to keep myself from moving around in my seat.

And if you have a good instructor and you listen to them and trust that your car will do what they say it will, its amazing the difference in your driving ability from the beginning to end of the event. As I said, this was my first track event, but just from the last morning session on day 2 to the last afternoon session on day 2, I was still scrubbing 3-4 seconds off my lap time and I know that my car had more time left in it, and with more seat time I'll find so much more time and smoothness.

Now my problem is that my hubby and I have to figure out how to finance this new bug. He doesn't quite have the bug as he was unable to go with me this weekend due to work, but I'm going to try and get to a track as much as possible as I don't know of anything else to do with my car that is anywhere near this much fun (and physically exhausting :smile: )

 

I agree that brakes would be the next most important mod after the driver, and yes a BBK is not that critical at this time instead go for steel braided lines, better fluid such as the ATE super blue, better pads are a must, and steel bushings to replace the rubber one for a more even pad pressure. A set of track tires would be nice, but please do not go for R-compounds in your first season it will detract from you learning experience and give you a false sense of security

 

go to my next reply...computers...

 

I've been away from the track for 15 years. I'm going back 'to it' Nov. 15.

My first advise is, was, would be, to consider upgrading some of the brake components. SS lines, pads and fluid. Given my lack of experience with the Mini, my intuition and past experience tell me I should be okay with SS lines, Fluid and front brake pads only??? Does this work for you folks tracking your cars often? I like Hawk pads...[/QUOTE]

 

Given that I've heard people say the stock rubber brake lines on a MINI are about as good as you can get for rubber lines, and that the rear brake pads on MINIs tend to wear out faster than the front pads... I'd take the money you have budgeted for stainless steel brake lines and use it on rear brake pads instead.

 

I've had that experience with more than one German car - SS lines made almost no difference. Thanks for the advise.

 

The driving school forum was started when I made a request to the moderators to add it since I saw a LOT of info on mods and upgrades but very few and highly scattered bits on driving.

A famous guitarist travels with 29 guitars (they get their own dressing room by contract!) but if he had just one and actually studied and practiced he would be a much better guitarist and musician.

In the music world we call this GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) and I thought I saw some of the same here although obviously there are some fantastic drivers as well.

For myself I decided to budget for few rounds of serious driving school with time in-between to absorb what I learn so it's just second nature. I'm figuring that upgrades to tires, wheels, brake lines, pads, bushings, and fluid will eventually occur at some point but beyond that I have no way of knowing what if any further modifications until I know where my limits are versus the car and how that matters (or not) in the (my) real world.

Looking forward to school ;-)

 

Driving schools come in different flavors from car control to driving on the track. For any of these events you can drive with any stock MINI and still learn a great deal. It really doesn't matter what you have.

AFTER you have aquired a fair amount of skill like you're lapping people with modded MINIs at will, then you can consider some upgrades.

Stock brakes will work, but they will get heated up and at some point will start to fade. The more skill you drive with, the less you heat up the brakes beyond their capacity to cool off. You can change brake pads but you still have to drive well.

Suspension upgrades are nice but they also result in a rougher ride for everyday use. You still need skill to drive the right line and at the right speed.

A rear sway bar that allows for various settings is pretty easy to upgrade and will add a measure of help to reduce understeer. Try the softest setting to start.

Bottomline is upgrades are OK but never required to get the most out of a learning experience. In fact I think you can gain more from driving a completely stock car in a driving school. I did that once in an 11 year old completely stock Maxima with 115,000 miles and three year old street tires, original suspension/automatic transmission. My instructor was passing all of the modded Cooper S's on the track. Very impressive to witness that.

 

Thank you for your post. It is very helpful. I got a nice chuckle out of the quoted statement.

 

At performance driving schools "I can teach you to be a good driver in 2 years on street tires or in 3 years with R compound tires." I forget from where I heard this but it says a lot. I'd say performance mod you brain and body, as you take that modification to your next car, and the next and next............. Car control is most important, fast lap times comes with smoothness, and skill, not just big brake kits

Having said that, I modified, at great cost and time, my last BMW, and it was loads of fun to do. I improved my lap times with these mods, but only incrementally, not nearly as much as my consistent attendence at driving school and varying tracks...

 

Also, now that I have my first school under my belt, I'm having to yell at my husband to stop talking about mods he wants to do to our cars because I want to save the money to go to more track days The things that I have wanted to do to my car have changed completely. Now, I'll be happy with a better set of brake pads (although mine held on pretty darn well) and I figure I'll be going through tires a bit more quickly doing this and other than that, I think I'm all set to go to another school if I can get him to stop spending money on his EVO I am seriously thinking about setting up car accounts for both of us and we get the same bugdet. He can mod his car till his budget runs out and I will go to track days with my money

 

Amanda,


I have some in-car video of the track, passing Porsches, etc....

I just don't have anywhere to post it to show you ...

Glad you had fun,

Phil
RED FURY

 

Must be nice to have a track nearby to learn on!!! I think the closest one to me is Road Atlanta...five hours.

 

Phil,

Thanks, I had alot of fun and my instructor said he was very happy with my progress through the 2 days. The last session on the 2nd day was 45 minutes with B & C combined. I had some of the B cars pass me, but I also passed several of the B cars. One of my friends taped me in that session as his car was having some overheating issues and he said he could hear some of the people around him chuckling everytime my car went by because of the sound of my car. It's definitely easy to tell when a MINI is coming down the track. Every time I was sitting in my car waiting for my session to start, I could tell when you were getting on the straight without having to look.

I've never hosted video either, so I don't know where to do it, but that's OK. Also, I was really tired driving home on Sunday night, but when I got home, I couldn't get to sleep b/c I was still so excited about the whole thing. My friends told me they had the same problem. I can already tell that this is going to turn into a problem for me

 

Luckilly I was given a trip to a BMW driver's school when I was 18 years old, and I learned very quickly that I needed to improve immensly. I modded the car I want to the school with, but I am not going to mod my MCS until I know what will compliment my driving (close to the limit) style.

I'll be attending CCA driver's schools this spring/summer, then I'll see if I need/want any mods.

The best thing I learned from any driver's school yet (BMW, Skip Barber) is that my BMW (now my MINI) has much higher capabilities than I do, and I need to respect them.

mb

 

Do you think thats because street tires give warning before they lose traction?


Paul