Hey,

I just had my first track experience with my new R56 MCS at Hallett in Oklahoma yesterday. I was a moving chicane most of the day. My first two sessions, I was just trying to stay out of the way of the faster cars and better drivers that were stacking up behind me. I was way too unfamiliar with the track and my car.

After the second session, I thought I'd never be back. The third session was much better. I was picking up speed so I had a couple of laps alone where I could concentrate on the corners and my shifts. I actually had fun that lap. The last session I got an instructor to ride with me. That helped a lot. He actually bragged on me through a couple of corners! I am still way too slow running my stock setup and the runflats, but I had a blast.

This morning during church, all I could think about was what I could do to my car to make it more competative on the track. Maybe I could even pass someone! I only passed two cars during the day, and they were both off the track.

Anyway, it was a blast! Can't wait to get back to the track! We're having Phil Wicks at Hallet in October.

 

You are to be commended for the effort. This is wise, to see what the car does stock so you can appreciate every little thing you do to it as you slip down that slippery mod slope.

 

The instructors and more advanced drivers will tell you to keep working on the driver skills first and car second. I agree with it to some extent but a set of R-compound tires will make it a lot more fun right away.

 

Congrats! The more seat time you have, the better you will understand you own, as well as your car's limitations.

 

Thanks all! All suggestions and tips are appreciated. I was aware enough to not do anything to my car until after finding out if I had the guts to track it at all. Now that I know it's something I want to do, I'll ease into mods. I want to go slow, because I may also want to autocross it in SCCA and I want to keep it in G stock. But I do want to go ahead and get a set of wheels and some non-runflat tires soon. Other than that, I'm not in a big hurry to make any other changes, save my money for more seat time.

I originally was thinking about seeing if I could get enough experience to maybe rent a car and do the 2 day SCCA school in December at Texas Motor Speedway. After seeing how much I've got to learn and knowing how intimidating SCCA schools are, I don't think I'm going to ready this year.

 

Do NOT get R compounds to start with. Get an ultra high performance tire--they're cheaper, and have more forgiveness than an R-compound. When you've got more seat time, then consider R-compounds.

R-compounds are all or none--they don't give much warning when they give way--you hit the maximum of they're traction, and then they break loose. An ultra or high performance tire will start sliding well before you lose it--you'll have plenty of warning, and learn much quicker where the edge of traction is. Save the R-compounds for later, once you're more comfortable on more conventional tires.

Your approach is the right one--start from scratch, and make each mod count. I'm still at a beginning stage, and running with other beginners with much more powerful cars, its apparent how good the MINI is to learn in--it fast, but not insanely fast, and very forgiving. Its a great car to learn in, especially on tracks with a ton of turns. Those folks running the insanely powerful cars are in general the slowest on the track as beginners, at least at first, and I think the learning curve is significantly steeper on such a car.

 

The 2 R-compund or not R-compund debate can really go either way, personally I find R-compunds to be more forgiving. Yes they don't make much noise to give you a more clear warning but they do alow for a much greater slip angle which could save you butt if you drive it in too deep where a street tire will just give way (that and I've chunked street tires before on hot track days). For someone who is new to this and not really sure if they're hooked or not, I'd hold off and run what you have, if you decide its for you, buy the tires (4 fit in the back of a mini no problem). Dont go for something super sticky (toyo RA-1 's are great, and actually wear quite well, I've seen guys go sesasons on an unshaved set) and just work you way up from there.

Same thing for brakes, I'd personally bring a better set of pads and change them. better stopping and much better wear, you won't be chewing through OE pads because you get them too hot. Other than that, any extra money I'd just spend schools, you're car is way faster than you are stock and it will take you some time to get inline with it. Once you can go faster in your car than anyone else can go then start adding stuff.
I know brakes and tires may not seem like this follows this adage, but my opinion is you're replacing with items that are meant for track use (and abuse) and you'll get way better life with those than just sticking with you're OE stuff

 

Do you mean swap out your pads at the track? I've seen people replace worn-out pads, but not just swap them out.

Good discussion on tires, I think I will get a set of wheels/tires before my next track day but I'm going to go for just a high performance non-runflat tire.

Thanks again for the help.

 

I personally swap my pads out for a track compund when I go to a DE, If you're staying on street tires, I'd stick with a combo pad (you don't want to overpower your street tires with track pads; there are a couple options, Mintex 1144's Hawk HP+'s I've both had good luck with on my R53) which you can drvie to a from the track with with no problems (they work fine cold) the only thing that might want to make you change them is the dust and noise (they do squeal a bit).

Also I'd look at changing you're brake fluid too (some BMWCCA events require frequent chages as part of tech), ATE SUper blue or Type 200 (they're the same, the Type 200 is amber and more warranty friendly, the blue is typically easier to find)

 

Brake Fluid should be changed every 6 months or if pedal feels soft, whichever comes first, when doing regular track days. I switch between the ATE Blue and 200 so I can see a positive color change. That way I know all the fluid is fresh.

I'll chime in and say wait on the R comps. Learn how the car feels and find the limits on a decent set of street tires first. R comps can mask issues that you'll never learn to drive through.

 

I think there was an earlier thread cautioning about going to R-comps too soon. It went on to say to get used to regular tires and getting more seat time during track days before taking that leap.

 

I agree....
everyone told me not to run Hoosiers.... blah blah blah

they are by far and away a great tire for the track
I could tell instantly when they are about to give way... and when they did I was ready for it... they don't slide as far as street tires but once you learn how to react to them they are predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. (it might help that I raced bicycles at the highest level)
Regardless, enjoy yourself the track is great fun

 

contrary to common wisdom (advice), i changed many things on my car early in my track development. i don't regret it. i now have a car that handles and stops like i wanted. i don't think that it slowed my learning curve. everyone has there own comfort level on the track. some like the audible warning issued by street tires before they let go. others can better sense vehicle dynamics. do what you want regarding tires, but always drive within your limits. seat time is definitely the cheapest way to get quicker.

 

After my first two days at the track bone stock, I changed a bunch of things before my next adventure.
Tires, Brakes, Rear Sway Bar, Adj Camber Plates and a good alignment.
My next track experience was so much better and its a totally different car in a very good way.

Now I am focused on me and being smooth...Sure I could have held off on many of the mods and ran stock for a long time but I wanted a car that had huge capability reserves so if I did over cook a turn I had reserves to tap into. For the foreseeable future I am holding off on any power upgrades.. Car is plenty quick and I think there is between 5 and 10 seconds to be made up with fixing me.

Good luck and BTW first thing I did was get switch out the run flats for a good street tire and go with higher temp brake fluid.

 

Thanks for all of the good advice. Today I ordered some new wheels (SSR Type C - 16x6.5) and some non-ruflats (not really great tires, but decent, inexpensive tires). The wheels were expensive, but I don't figure on ever having to replace those (unless I bend one). It's also legal for autocross G Stock.

My car is pretty much a stripper, except for the LSD, Sport Suspension and DSC. I saved money on the car for track and autocross upgrades. This is all I plan on doing this season. I've probably only got 2 - 4 more track days this year. It will give me the winter to think about what to do next. There isn't much I can do if I want to autocross in G Stock.

 

This is a great discussion. I'm working my way up through the DE ranks and am trying to move my car up commensurately. Last season the car was stock the whole time while I learned what it did, when, and how. It was also helpful because my technique was obviously at a beginner level.

This season I went to a stiffer RSB, lighter wheels, and a track alignment (adj front and rear camber). As someone else stated above, this made a huge difference for me since I was ready to get the most out of it. During my last event, it was clear that my limiting factor (besides my ability) was brake performance, so I've installed better brakes. I know there's debate about the necessity of BBK's and whatnot, but it was my decision to go for the wilwood kit.

I have had an instructor say to me "throw some r-comps on this thing, you're ready," but I won't do it quite yet. I'd like to rip through the Azenis I have now then spend my money on something different when it's clear I can get the most out of it.

This is what I love most about the HPDE hobby - we all assess and act on our abilities in different ways. Some value the process and take small steps, while others hit the track with amazingly capable cars and work their way up to that level.

There's no one best way to approach this considering we all enter with different talent/ability/learning curve. Some people can start with high levels of grip and get the most out of it, while others have to learn on street tires, so choose accordingly.

mb

 

Before you start modding your car to high heaven, I suggest having an instructor in the car with you at ALL times to start with. Also, if there is an instructor session, ask if you can be a passenger in HIS/HER car. That was the biggest eye opener for me so far....to be pushed to my limit as a passenger and to see what really can be done.

Gave me more confidence in myself and my car to push it a little further and hence in the process learn more about the track and how to control the car.

I've been to two HPDE's - both in the novice group - with the first time in my wife's 06 MCS which was not modded beyond wheels and summer tires and a CAI. The second time was in my 04 MCS which is highly modded. I think having done the first event in the unmodded car helped me a lot. Driving my car (which I'm more used to to begin with) in the 2nd HPDE was also an eye opener.

Like MBCoops said, brakes, brakes, brakes. Really excited to see how the brake ducts work out for me on Nov-2. Oh and regarding rcompounds I ran Toyo RA-1's with my car and they really felt good. Instructor told me why bother chewing up your street tires when you already have the Rcompounds (got them slightly used for a good deal) so I figured what the hey. They were fine and never broke loose on me, which means hopefully I am driving within my limits.

 

I had my second and third track days this last Friday and Saturday with my new wheels and non-runflat tires. The Saturday was the first day of the Phil Wicks Driving Academy at Hallett MRC Oklahoma. I had to miss the second day.

Friday was just a regular track day without instruction. It was good to become familiar with the track and practice my lines, but I was still pretty bad. The new tires were much better than than the runflats, so I thought the car felt really good, I just wasn't very confident. We had 6 - 20 minute sessions - 2 hours of track time! Still, I came away thinking that I don't seem to have it.

The first session on track with Phil Wicks was just parade laps. Phil let me lead the novice group since I pretty much knew the line. The second session I had an instructor from Arizona (Dave something). He didn't have much experience on this track but he was excellent. I felt like I improved 100% in just that one session. He really worked on my braking. I was trying to carry speed through the corners and I was having to pump the brakes in the corner to slow down enough. He got me to braking later, but harder and slowing down earlier, then getting back into it much sooner and having much more exit speed (if that makes sense). I had read everywhere to always do your braking in a straight line prior to the corner, but he got me to actually doing it. He told me once that these new cars are so nice because you don't have to pump the brakes! He really applauded my progress.

I selfishly grabbed another instructor for the second session (Mick from Missouri - he drove the black/yellow Missouri Tiger's Killer Bee car). He was also excellent! What he really got me to doing was looking through the corner to where you are going. By this time, I pretty much knew the corners, so looking further ahead gave me confidence to get into the gas sooner. He told me that would happen and he was right. When I started looking further down the road to he exit of the corner, I was able to get into the gas much sooner, make a much smoother drive through the corner and carry much more exit speed. It just made it feel right. He really bragged on me. Phil came by later and told me that Mick had said I was doing really good. I think that was code for "you don't get another instructor today, you're on your own". I didn't mind, it was good to hear a little praise.

Mick also bragged on the R56. Mine has the LSD and sport suspension. He thought it felt really good. He told me once something like "this car feels great going around the track and you're really well suited for the car, it feels like you're really in control of it". That was really good to hear, for me and the car!

On my fourth session, I got a Spec Miata racer to go with me (outside of the Phil Wicks school). Since I was doing pretty good and knew the line (even though I never got more than half the corners good on any one lap) she concentrated on my shifting. This is where I really suck. I can't heel/toe, but I'm working on it. It's also a new car so I've been trying to take it easy on the transmission. I made most of the laps in 3rd and 4th only. I know I need to be in 2nd in one or maybe 2 corners, and I could easily go to 5th down a couple of the staights for more speed, but also more shifting. She also got onto me about braking later. She'd point out how much room I had left at the end of my braking and she'd make me brake later on the next lap, especially on turn one which is a fast corner.

I was by myself on my last session and I wondered how much confidence I would retain without an instructor. I had a blast. We ran with a bunch of other cars that were not part of the school. I passed a couple of MINIs and a Honda Civic. Then I followed another Honda for several laps and gained on him every lap. I don't know that I could have passed him, but it was fun to have him out there as a rabbit.

Well, thanks for letting me ramble for a while and brag on myself . I couldn't have had a better time. I've been working SCCA and vintage races for several years now, but this is the first time I've been on the track at speed. I always wondered if I'd like it and if I'd have the guts to do it. It wasn't until Saturday that I realized that I DO like it and I can do it.

From the experience I had and the people I talked to (including Phil). My next upgrade will probably be a Schroth Quick Harness when they have one to fit my R56.

 

Check with the organizations you run with before you get your harness. Not all of them allow it without seats with cutouts. PCA will not allow them starting next year unless your seat has cutouts.

Alan

 

Great to see more track day writeups. Thanks for sharing.

 

Just following your lead. Mine are not as good and detailed as yours, but it's just my third track day. Thanks for the comment.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but why is that? I knew there were some objection to them if you were in a car without a roll cage, but haven't heard of this. Thanks.

 

Nice write up and a enternaining read, cant wait to have a go which reminds me must ring the track now about a booking..............

 

From what I understand and this is not gospel but information gleaned from a few conversations. PCA is going to require that vehicles participating in HPDE's meet the same requirements as the Club Races when installing safety equipment. If you show up in your bone stock garden variety Caymen for instance, there are no added requirements. But slap a harness in that reptile and you had better mount the harness following PCA Club Racing rules.

Again, this is only my understanding of how the regulations are going be followed. It would be wise to contact your PCA region and ask the HPDE Director what they expect.

 

I don't know. I've heard a bunch of different reasons including not wanting the harness attached behind the driver at attach points lower than the drivers shoulders. Not wanting the harness run between the headrest supports because that is narrower than the drivers neck. Not wanting the harness run around the headrest supports because then the harness pulls down on the drivers shoulders.

What gnatster says was confirmed this weekend at the pca event I attended. I think their intent, and it was hinted at, is to get rid of all four point harnesses - period.

I like my schroth harness. I feel more connected to the car when I'm in it. (I ran the pca event this weekend with just my GCLock, which is a lot better than nothing.) I think the harness run between the headrest supports is safer than the stock belts and should be allowed. I also agree that a five point harness mounted with a properly installed harness bar and a race seat is the best protection.

Again, check with the organizers of the events you will be running. No use spending money on something you won't be allowed to use.

Alan