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So, who wants to join me at LRP on Sept 12th with SCDA?
I'm looking at my Fall options and may do that one. Yesterday I was up at Palmer doing the original counterclockwise direction which I haven't done in a few years. It's an exercise in taming understeer because of the uphill turn 4-5 esses and a few hairpins that just work against FWD cars when going in that direction. After reading a Tire Rack article (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=58) I spent the day playing with tire pressures, suspension settings and different lines. I managed to get the upper hand everywhere except the second half of the turn 4-5 esses. It was some consolation that the classroom instructor said he has been through there 100 times and never felt he got it right. Anyhow, the point to be made is that Palmer is a great track for experimenting and learning.
Hey, sounds like a good time. Ya, that CCW direction is really hard on a FWD car. The esses are brutal, especially in my car without the ability to change the suspension. Palmar is a tough consideration for me given my drive to get there. Between those esses and loosing a brand new tire to the sharp stones around there, I am less than a fan of the place.
I have played a bit with tire pressure, but keep coming back to 37-38 psi on all 4. If the fronts get to 39 or above, hot, they become greasy. I also have found, at least with the Dunlop ZIIs, less than 37 and they get sloppy. Now a lot of this could be the setup on my car, especially with only -1.5 deg camber up front.
Hope you can make it to LRP. I’ll be there with Zre next weekend. If it is a really nice day and you want to take a ride, come on up for a visit.
I have played a bit with tire pressure, but keep coming back to 37-38 psi on all 4. If the fronts get to 39 or above, hot, they become greasy. I also have found, at least with the Dunlop ZIIs, less than 37 and they get sloppy. Now a lot of this could be the setup on my car, especially with only -1.5 deg camber up front.
The rule of thumb for MINIs, among those in this thread, always seemed to be in the 38 range hot and that's where I have been playing. But I took off the wheels today to check pads, rotate tires, etc. and noticed I have a tire wear pattern that leads me to believe that's too high, at least for Michelin Pilot SS. Next time out I'm going to play with lower pressures. I'll sign up tomorrow for 9/12 LRP if there's still room. My credit card cycle ends today.
UPDATE: I did some research and, sure enough,Michelin recommends 32-36 hot for optimum road track performance.
The rule of thumb for MINIs, among those in this thread, always seemed to be in the 38 range hot and that's where I have been playing. But I took off the wheels today to check pads, rotate tires, etc. and noticed I have a tire wear pattern that leads me to believe that's too high, at least for Michelin Pilot SS. Next time out I'm going to play with lower pressures. I'll sign up tomorrow for 9/12 LRP if there's still room. My credit card cycle ends today.
UPDATE: I did some research and, sure enough,Michelin recommends 32-36 hot for optimum road track performance.
My cousin runs Michelin PS2 (I think, Michelins at any rate) and he runs a lower pressure than I do. I think he runs at the higher end of the 32-36 range hot. Just take it slow at first if you are dropping down to 36 or lower to see how the handling changes. I may have been running my R888s at too high a pressure as I have worn the centers out. I thought at first it was because the wheel width was pinching the tire. Maybe not.
Hey S-Driver - I met a guy the other day while at WGI who says he knows you. What was his name??? Clay? Or was it James? Just kidding. I know the name. At any rate he says hi and that you need to improve your card game. Seems like a great guy.:
well......, he is a good guy. And tonight my card partner and I thoroughly trounced Clay and his partner. So maybe I’ve improved my card play? Lol..
Patroons chapter of BMWCCA put on a great 2 day event at LRP. Friday was an open track day (half day, actually) from 1 to 5 in the evening, for signed off solo drivers. They arranged the day into informal run groups of slightly slower and slightly faster cars, but, in actuality, you could go out at any time as long as you were comfortable with slower or faster cars. Saturday was a traditional HPDE. The combined run groups was a bit crowded in the first session. Not sure what happened with the number of drivers, but the 2nd - 4th sessions were much less crowded.
It was interesting that on Friday, my MCS felt like the traction control was, at times, applying the left front brake. This also happened the last time I was LRP, but it didn’t happen at WGI when I was there a month ago, which was in between the 2 LRP events. I had a mix of old and new tires on the car with an older tire on the left front as that is the tire that gets the most abuse at LRP and newer tires on the other 3 corners; all 4 were of the same type, though. I was running the Wilwood BP30 brake pads on Friday. One Saturday I rotated tires, put a new tire on the front left (I take a spare tire/wheel with me to LRP), changed out brake pads to Wilwood Poly H pads and all of my problems with the car handling went away... I think it was that older tire that was causing my issues and it was performing differently than the other three tires. I don’t think it was the change in pads, even though the Poly H were much better, there were no “oddities” with the BP30s.
Good thing I do carry a spare as I had a valve stem leak; actually leaks on 2 wheels. I bought TPMS for the wheels this year and they came with a traditional style rubber stem. The good new was that they TPMS worked; bad new was that it was the TPMS that was leaking... This didn’t stand up to the the rigors of the track. Both wheels were leaking between the stem and the wheel. I was fortunate that it was one on Friday and one on Saturday that each failed and that, having a spare tire with me saved the 2nd track day. Now it was interesting going home as the leaky 2nd trie only lasted about 5 miles before the warning came on again after having been pumped up. The 1st tire wasn’t leaking a badly and I was able to wiggle the valve stem to get it to seal better. That one lasted the 80-ish mile ride back home with no issues...
Hey it was great to met up with friends at LRP. ZRE was there with his “new” BMW 325xi M Sport with a bunch of Dinan stuff installed. This car has a AT with paddle shifters and by the end of the day he was a convert from the MT.... Seems we lost another one to new technology...
One interesting observation - In general it seems that the participation in these events has declined significantly over the last 2 years. And it isn’t just me who has made this observation. I have heard it from others. This doesn’t bode well for the future if this trend continues.
One interesting observation - In general it seems that the participation in these events has declined significantly over the last 2 years. And it isn’t just me who has made this observation. I have heard it from others. This doesn’t bode well for the future if this trend continues.
My experience with Patroons is limited to three or four events but one reason I'm hesitant to do more is that I never know if I will be able to drive solo or will be required to carry an instructor. I don't understand why once I'm signed off as solo in one event the designation doesn't carry over to the next event. I'm sure they have their reasoning and they're entitled to set whatever rules they want. But when I do an SCDA event I go in knowing I will drive solo and be able to set my own plan for the day.
GKP - Great to see you and your friend yesterday! It was fun day and glad to see the other MINIs there. And I am lookin forward to the pictures. The Corvette guys were a nice and enjoyed their company. The guy with the GP2 stopped by after you left. He seemed to have a really good day.
I was surprised that I didn’t recognize the one Corvette as being a Callaway. I saw the huge spoiler on the back and wondered about it, but did think to check it out further. It was some amount of a rapid fire day once it got going. https://www.callawaycars.com/homepag...away-corvette/
On Monday I did my last track day for the year at LRP. Four sessions and four completely different conditions: drizzly/dry/almost dry/pouring rain. Because of the weather, they were looking closer than usual at tires. I got a raised eyebrow at tech inspection (and that was when he saw the left front — the best of the four). I told him I was aware and that it was the last day for them. That seemed to satisfy him. Then, while we were staged for the fourth session, when it was raining hard, Elivan went down the line checking tires. He didn't like what he saw on mine and had me turn the wheel so he could see better. I thought he was going to keep me off the track so I told him I was aware, this was the last session for them, and I would come in if I felt any aquaplaning. So he let me go. What I wanted to say was, "I learned from S-Driver and in his world what you see is commonly called FULL TREAD!"
S-Driver — Given your acknowledged expertise on tire wear, and when tires should be retired, what say you to these?
Eddie 07S — If you remember, last year (or was it the year before?) we had a rainy day at the end of the season and my tires were shot. But the Pilot Super Sports performed remarkably well on that day and they did again on Monday. Go figure.
Last edited by gkp; Oct 10, 2019 at 01:01 PM.
Reason: add photo and comment
Hmmmm, sounds like the day we had a month ago... Typical LRP.
Not sure I remember that particular rainy day; I have had quite a few there. But, I do know that really good tires can be amazing even with the wear bars forming part of the tread. And the MINIs are amazing in their own right in the rain.
As for your tires - GKP - are you even down to the wear bars? I think S-driver would say that you could get another 5 or 10 days on those... Not even close to having the cords showing...
gkp - No I did not. I went back and found it in my In-Box. They didn’t say anything more that what a deal that was; a bit of a backwards way of saying here’s our price increase. I liked the picture of the SuperPerforma GT40 in his email, though... I went skiing yesterday and found a 10% price increase and this past summer GVC BMWCCA mentioned that they were having to deal with price increases at WGI.
I must think that we have gone quite a while at the price we were at. Hate to see that happen, even so.
BTW - a set of JCW Pro coilovers are going on my new JCW tomorrow...
And with that came the GVC (BMWCCA chapter) event listing at WGI for 2020. 3, 3-day weekend events. Early June, Late August and early October. So who has signed up already?
Seriously, these events are something to think about. The Fridays are open track days, the August dates are open track days and the weekend days of the June and October event are traditional DE days. I expect the June dates to fill up fast. But for me, if I do the June event at all, it will only be for Friday and maybe Saturday. I have a built in commitment for that Sunday.
Last edited by Eddie07S; Jan 1, 2020 at 06:50 AM.
Reason: Edited wording
Happy New Year to you mister, and all the track gunghos. Though I would not be signing up for the events at your neck of woods, but I am excited for you, and myself for the 2020 season. Too little time and never enough track days so I am going to take advantage of all the well organized ones near me.
If you ever travel this way I would want you to be my guest, and you can drive any of my cars.
Not to make yo all jealous, our club has scheduled 20 club days of open track, and we can request for more if enough members sign up. Keep those tires on the pavement and have fun.
I think it was that older tire that was causing my issues and it was performing differently than the other three tires. I don’t think it was the change in pads, even though the Poly H were much better, there were no “oddities” with the BP30s.
This didn’t stand up to the the rigors of the track. Both wheels were leaking between the stem and the wheel. I was fortunate that it was one on Friday and one on Saturday that each failed and that, having a spare tire with me saved the 2nd track day. Now it was interesting going home as the leaky 2nd trie only lasted about 5 miles before the warning came on again after having been pumped up. The 1st tire wasn’t leaking a badly and I was able to wiggle the valve stem to get it to seal better. That one lasted the 80-ish mile ride back home with no issues...
