I have always suspected this, and as so have used Klasse All In One and multiple layers of Sealent Glaze. I have found that personally, while the SG is a PITA to apply, it is amazing. I recommend applying with a pc to get a thin even coat, allow to haze for 5-10 minutes, mist a microfiber bonnet with distilled water and use it to buff it off. I like 2-3 layers of Sealent Glaze, followed by a bi-monthly coat of Zymol Carbon, and use Pinnacle's Crystaline Mist to condition the carnuba after every wash. Its a bit of a pricey combo but works great.

 

Hey there all! Sorry I've not been able to get to NAM much this week but I'm back. I just glanced over this thread and have to go back and read it more carefully. I'll give you some feedback in a bit... (unless I get yanked away from my computer for the zillioneth time this week).

-Heather

 

Heather is busy...but I got to talk to her this week.

 

Is her voice really sultry, like some of the others have said ?????

I bet she coats her vocal chords with Slick to get it that way. And I bet she dabs a few drops of Hydro just behind her ears every morning, too.

 

First, thanks for testing and posting the results Josh!

Thanks for including Epic too. It's always nice when a new product can be tested and retested in varying scenarios. I think you chose a nice lineup of very comparable, yet often debated, products for a durability test. Personally I probably would've left the carnauba topper out of the mix just because it's so different and wouldn't affect durability one way or the other. But, I can see why it was included just because many often use this combo.

I also liked JWardell's prep choice. P21S Paintwork Cleanser is a great pre-wax prep product for wax testing. It is often our prep of choice too.


I have some thoughts, suggestions and ideas, all based on my experience and what I know. I'm guessing my feedback/comments will be long (surprise!) so I'll try to break them down into easily readable sections:

Klasse: Terminology Confusion

I think it's important for readers to understand the Klasse terminology before we go on.
Klasse is a brand which includes (among others) 2 main products:
Klasse All-In-One (aka AIO) &
Klasse Sealant Glaze (aka SG)

In most Klasse discussions (not this one), the AIO is being referred. However, the "AIO" part is usually dropped and only "Klasse" is used. So, please understand that in many cases when Klasse AIO is being discussed, especially in reference to things like durability, the AIO by itself is being discussed, not SG or a combination of the two.

Klasse: AIO vs SG and "The Twins"

AIO is an acrylic-based synthetic wax and paint cleanser (or non-abrasive polish). It also contains filler/conceals which help hide slight imperfections- hence the name All-In-One.
It used to be very durable, in addition to its fabulous paint cleasning abilities, filling properties and use as an excellent pre-wax prep product.
Due to a formula change a couple of years ago (required by California VOC regulations), AIO now has very limited durability when used by iteslf. It still maintains all of the other great attributes.

SG is an acrylic-based synthetic wax. Although it is usually a pain to buff off (& there are tricks you can do to make this a little easier), it is extremely durable. It imparts a look of highly reflective shine and no depth or wetness. Although it can be used alone, it is usually used after an application of AIO...

The "Klasse Twins" refers to the 2-step combination of AIO followed by SG.

Ok, now on to the test itself...

Testing on a Vertical Surface

JWardell already noted that it can be difficult to assess beading on a vertical surface. This is very true and can sometimes make test results difficult to evaluate. Usually, in order to get results that are easy to work with on a vertical surface you need a controlled testing lab.

Having said that though, it's not that these results can't be used! JWardell does great testing and understands how to do it. The vertical surface issue is just something to keep in mind as we try to make sense of what we're looking at.

Dish Soap as a Test Method

A wonderful shared attribute of all three products (Z2, Epic and SG) is that they withstand abuse... hence their great durability! Dish soap will not remove Z2, Epic or SG. It may wear at them a very little, but will not strip them off. It will, however, temporarily break the surface tension which will alter beading. This is why the beading results are oddly varied. Rubbing alcohol will remove the wax (or at least most of it in 1 pass). I would suggest going back and trying that instead if you want to strip a spot of its wax.

Beading Evaluation Methodology

JWardell also was good at noting that different products bead and sheet differently. This is true... Epic in particular will sheet instead of bead immediately after washing with a car soap. However, it will return to beading when water touches it again.

In order to more accurately examine beading, I would wash and rinse the car, then dry. THEN, respray with water again (w/ the Mr. Clean if you wish). Now look at the beading results. This should show a more accurate representation of beading due to the absence of the car soap and its potential interference.

Another beading-related thought... the carnauba topper over the SG in such a short period of time would likely alter the look of the beads. In a couple more weeks it should be pretty much apples to apples (synthetics to synthetics) because the carnauba will be gone. It's likely that at this point it's mostly gone but I'd guess it'll still give you a different beading effect- possibly.

Timeframe

In our testing, we have found that all 3 products have easily made it through this short period of time. After going back and tweaking a few methods, I would actually wait longer and then take another look. Z2, Epic, and Sealant Glaze should have easily lasted this length of time of about 2 months.
**The race gets tight (and exciting!) for products as strong as these as we get into the time range of 3-6 months.

Test Goal = Durability

For all reading this test, remember that it is a test of durability. As I stated above, all 3 products are extremely durable... we've not found any other product on the market today which can out last any of these three! We've tested literally hundreds of waxes and durability testing is one of our primary tests. So, this test is truly of the creme de la creme of durable synthetic waxes! That's part of the fun of it.
Each of the 3 waxes do give very different looks- looks of course are very difficult to test since its a very subjective issue. So, the appearance of each wax is something to keep in mind after you look at durability (or beforehand... depending on your goals).

Summary
I'd suggest going back and tweaking a few methods in the bead evaluation- Wash, rinse, dry, rinse, evaluate. If you want to strip wax from an area for comparison, use rubbing alcohol instead of dish soap. Then, let us know what you see!

Again, great test and thanks for sharing with all of us! I hope some of my thoughts and ideas help.

-Heather

 

Only when I have a cold.

Hey, don't give away my perfume secrets!!

-Heather

 

What were your results after testing Collinite IW and or fleetwax? Thanks!

mb

 

My 2 cents.

My Previous Mini was a Jet Black/Jet Black MCS, The WIKKED One, with which I have won many a trophy for "best paint" at car shows, and was also featured in MC2 Magazine.

I had been up against many custom paint jobs and MANY different car polishing freaks, using the gammot of paint polishing products, waxes, finishers, etc.

My MINI always looked "wet" - in the snow, after a snow, whatever the weather, etc.






The products I used the most often were simple to apply, easy on/easy off - AND they never left a residue on the MINIs plastic bits.

They were:

Eagle One Nano Wax (the easiest and quickest polish on and off - and I frequently drive Zaino users crazy with this product - it gets a better shine in about 1/8th of the time it takes to use Zaino polishes etc....)

And Wolfgangs Quick Detailer (AutoGeek.net) for touching up your MINI after a quick wash, dust off, etc.

Consumer Reports has tested many of these products, and Eagle One also comes out on top in their opinion.

Eagle One also makes a "Wax-As-U-Dry" product that is a MUST HAVE if you need a quick "spritz-n-wipe" after a quick car wash.

I understand the FLACK I might take for going against the "Sacred Polishes" alot of you have put on a pedestal, but there are ALOT of MINI owners out there that just don't have the kind of time Zaino, Klasse, etc. products take to apply.

For the almost NON-DESCERNABLE shine and protection than any of these "2-3-step" products can give you, go do yourselves a favor, try Nano Wax products, and spend some time with your family/dog/therapist - OR GO MOTORING, with the knowledge that if your beloved MINI gets real dirty, it will be a >snap< to get it tip top shiny once more.

-B

 

this thread reminds me.... octaneguy never did acknowledge about my
alcohol wipe vs non wiped squeak test on my other thread about Epic vs
Griots Best of Show.

this is imho the only way you can really determine if the wax is there or
not at a hobbiest level. only other way is to get spectro analysis.

 

Regardless of who won, do you think that all the reports of Klasse SG lasting up to a year is not true? Just wondering.

Exactly, and thats why I wrote: I think what your seeing here is the PS21 is probably gone.

 

I just bought some of that newfangled Polycharger. Next Sat when I detail I am going to mix it with my Klasse AIO & with the SG. I can't wait to see if it lengthens their coverage durability time or if i just wasted $40

 

Wow, Heather, thanks for the in-depth comments! It almost sounds like you were running the test yourself.

Durability- as I clearly stated, that is all this test concentrates on. A forthcoming test will be taking appearance into account (as well as long term but "regular weather" durability), and among many more products. I fully expected the carnuba to disappear but consider it part of the Klasse system so that's why I still applied it.

Repeated rinses-I rinsed, dried, then resprayed with a very light mist filtered water. And resprayed again and again while taking the photos. I also watched it dry up close to see how the water stuck. The epic was never beading in those worn sections. Close up video would perhaps better illustrate the fact that it dried as a solid film without beading in those areas where the wax was gone. I tried to take photos (in the quickly falling light) to illustrate that, but of course it is tough.

Soap/Alcohol- The soap was not part of my "test method," I applied it to a small section simply because I wanted to be sure that the waxes had in fact worn from those sections. As expected, after applying the soap the zaino no longer beads there--I've always found dish soap or simple green to easily remove zaino.
BUT, to make everyone happy, I went out there last night and applied rubbing alcohol to the same section, as well as to a small strip towards the top of the door where it starts rolling more vertical and all three were still beading. I'll have to wait till the next wash to see the results. And the winter wear will continue--though a beautiful 70 degrees two days ago, today is a snow storm! Part of the crazy new england weather that makes durability a top requirement in most of my detailing products.

 

That is a very spooky thought, what if you didn't apply perfectly, missed a little spot, and you just sharpied your paint

 

...and heather, I forgot to add that I was really pulling for Epic here. I would love to share in everyone's excitement that swept over this forum in the last few months, but I don't believe things till I see them, or at least test it. In fact comparing it to zaino was a personal purpose of this test--I added klasse as a third contender because it has a large following too.
I got even more excited when I applied all three next to each other. Epic was clearly more darker and richer than zaino (again, one coat of each), so I could finally believe the many reports of how great it looks. But durability is still my #1 priority so I had to run the test if I were to replace zaino, and sadly it looks like epic doesn't hold up as well. I was expecting klasse to be long gone before the epic or zaino, so you can imagine my surprise. Of course klasse also looked deeper and darker, but it had a layer of carnuba. And again, I will be looking at "looks" more closely among products as well as multiple layering of products, in the near future. Hmmm..I wonder...Epic applied over Klasse?

And in case you are thinking I should have run this test on my hood instead of my door, you are right. But there's no way I'm subjecting my custom-painted bonnet to test conditions or potential winter week/smonths with no wax protection...it is my most valued body surface. (Hahah! Yes, we are all freakin' nuts in here!) Meanwhile the door panel is the one thing I see every time I enter the car so it's easy to keep an eye on progress.

 

Any pics of your custom painted bonnet?

 

"Lousy Smarch weather!"

 

I love talking with Heather, she is always very informative and helpful. I am sure she loves talking with me because I give her money to talk to m e.

I suggest you all find out for yourself what her voice sounds like. Join us, and give her part of our pay checks.

 

lol nice

well, I would say that all cars must be claybarred and re-waxed in the middle of winter at some point. I dont think anything lasts fully until spring except for one item that has little depth, that is Griot's Paint Sealant. My mother has used the car in all sorts of bad weather and well, hm. It doesnt have very much dirt on it and I havent washed it in almost 2 months. It is still slick to the touch, like I just waxed it. However, her new Camry is silver which of course is a metallic colour. I see no depth in the paint whatsoever, even on first application. It is supposed to last a year, I believe it will and probably longer as although it is used daily, is garaged at night.

my griot's carnauaba paste wax JUST died 2 weeks ago. I waxed it last the end of November. The car never saw a second of the indoors since then. What I used to asist this was griot's after wash spray wax booster. I was not sure if I was spraying stripped paint or some sort of layer of carnauba until about 2 weeks/washes ago. The water always washed off the car with the open hose really well. The same 40-45 degree temperatures with no wind. Two weeks ago after a wash, I noticed the water was making tiny beads, sticking to the paint a lot and the open hose wasnt working. The spray wax also didnt really shine like it did previously. The paint looked flat but clean last week in the sun. Touching it after a spraywax and then light QD spray and buff didnt have the same effect. I think the wax is completely gone now. It lasted a long-assed time, but only because of the spraywax booster. Hm. I dont know why other companies dont make something like this for their system. I think it would make the concern for lasting effect lesser.

I am not advocating straight, hard, old school paste for winter usage though. I still recommend something like epic or klasse for winter months. eagle one might be great stuff, but hm, that is the first person ever to suggest it. also, a bright coloured metallic has much different needs than flat paint in terms of depth.

 

el jefe- you talking about the Griot's SprayOn wax? If so, Prima Hydro is
Prima's polymer version of spray on type wax.

imho, Hydro is much easier to apply and remove than SprayOn wax as
Hydro disperses/coats evenly and wipes off with no smears. SprayOn
wax, you need to go over it a final time with a fresh MF if you want to
make it look as nice as it can.

i like SprayOn wax on my weekend cars running Best of Show. it's not
overly shiny and it's a warm natural glow. i dont like the super reflectant
look of most polymers, but Hydro and Epic have a wet deep lustor so
they are one of my favorites.

 

I used Zaino Z5. I clayed the car in September and applied one coat of Z5. I washed the car about 4-5 times throught the winter and the water beaded off very nicely (wax was still working well). I washed the car last weekend (March 10th) and the wax was still there, but it wasn't working quite as well. I plan to clay and re-wax this weekend or next. I LOVE ZAINO! (works great for us busy types)

I would say that it lasted 5 months. The car is garaged, but driven every day.

 

jwardell... (sorry btw for disappearing from here for a bit again!)

Thanks for the testing clarifications. Excellent info. It sounds like you had already covered in your test much of what I wondered about.

I can see your reasoning for not doing the custom bonnet just for the sake of a horizonal test surface!

I wonder if Klasse SG's acrylic-base helped hold up against the winter month grime (especially the salts)? Hm. A puzzle for sure!

Hey no offense on behalf of Epic! We proudly sell all of the test waxes because we they're all excellent. (ok, so we don't sell Zaino but we have it and sometimes use it, plus we would sell it if Sal would let other regular retailers sell it! )
Plus, as everyone knows, I love Epic not only for its excellent durability but because I prefer its look over the others. This was a fun test because it was race of the most durable waxes. Either way, each of them wins for durability over anything else I know of, IMO!

Now that summer is fast approaching, I hope everyone will do summer durability tests (especially in areas of intense dry heat and humid, saltwater heat)! We've conducted tests in these areas but it's also fun and useful to hear what others find.

Thanks again for doing & sharing the test and including all of the waxes you did. I admire your work and efforts!

-Heather

 

Is it a puzzle or is that the point of the acrylic base? Do you have Collinite test results? I like their products and would love to know your (more informed and professional) opinion. I think it has merit in this discussion because we are talking about long-lasting products that stand up to winter. Thanks!

mb

 

Collinite IW (Insulator Wax) underwent a formula change due to the same California VOC regulations which forced Klasse AIO's formula to change. The result was the same... durability was affected and neither product is as durable anymore. IW has a fairly reflective high-shine look but does have some gloss and wetness, IMO. It can sometimes be a little dusty during buffing/removal but not too bad. Unlike AIO, it doesn't have any filler/concealers or paint cleansers. If it didn't have the formula change years ago, I think it would be a stronger contender.

From what I understand, Collinite Fleetwax is a similar though marine version of IW or something like that... I honestly can't remember the exact details on their similarities and differences.

-Heather

 

Yes, I wasn't clear on what the puzzle is... yes, the point of acrylics is their ability to stand up well against harsh chemicals like salts. The puzzle is whether or not that is the specific reason why SG did well in this test. Certainly it should've accounted for at least some of it. There are other non-acrylics that also do well against harsh chemicals. So, there's no way of telling definitively what specific chemical attribute (or, more likely, combination of them) lead directly to the results Josh had. Thanks for making me clarify myself.

We haven't messed around with any of the Collinites in a while, although I did just post (I think the same time you did!) some thoughts on what I do know about the IW.

-Heather

 

Thanks!

mb